Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[Bitless]

I shared the pics myself.

Thanks !

 

[FCKW36]

I'm shedding a ton of hair since starting Microneedling.

 

[Bill_Russo]

I read the non-responders study again.

The pathogenesis of androgenetic alopecia is multifactorial and is still not clear. The efficacy of the conventional therapies with respect to new hair growth is unsatisfactory. The present case series shows that the addition of microneedling procedure augments the response even in poor responders to conventional therapy.

As microneedling targets multiple pathogenetic factors of Androgenetic Alopecia, we are of the opinion that this procedure should be offered to patients with Androgenetic Alopecia for new and faster hair follicle stimulation.

However, the total number and frequency of sessions and long-term sustainability of response of microneedling need to be evaluated within a larger population.

This study is a great example of the need of micro needling on a long term basis. We know that we don't run out of wound heeling response. They also changed the frequency to every two weeks after the first month.


The more I read about micro needling, the more I'm convinced that it may not work for everyone but it will push the response rate of conventional therapies to the stratosphere. It all just makes sense because of two main things needling is doing.

1. Revascularization - Proven to help improve hair regrowth because the basic concept is similar to minoxidil - a vasodilator medication.

2. Growth Factors - I read multiple studies on the effect of hair transplant and the wound healing process after a transplant and they too concluded with biopsy studies that this effect seems to peak after 7 up to 21 days. But this is it and this may be the issue with wound healing response due to hair transplant. This one effect is not enough to do much for hair growth. It's literally just one session and that is it. I think it should be clear due to the patent released by follica that we will need multiple session just like skin microneedling sessions. And I think a monthly session after achieving decent enough regrowth would be optimal. In these transplant studies they tested biopsy and saw no 1. (Revascularization) happening too.

These two things obviously work synergistically with conventional therapies.

Patient 1 - Before

View attachment 110156

Patient 1 - After

View attachment 110157



Before - Patient 1

View attachment 110158


After - Patient 1 result at 1 month, 3 months and 6 months points.


View attachment 110159


I think the effect of micro needling is cumulative because we don't run out of growth factors. The only issue is long term safety.

The above patients did not respond to conventional therapy and some of them also got a transplant which didn't work in their favor.

Honestly, the more I read about needling, the more clear I see it: it's gonna be necessary to be "cured". To me, the closest thing that could come to a "cure" would be an effectice attack on all the angles... And needling is gonna be one of the key weapons. Then once desirable results are achieved, perhaps some form of long term maintenace, such as what Shisheido is trying to do with RCH-01.

 

[ryan r]

So I tried Kirkland Minoxidil liquid and i came up with an allergic rash. I had hives and intense itching. I therefore decided to try the foam version as I thought the issue was with the PG, but I have had the same reaction with the foam.

Not sure what to do now. Not really sure what the alternatives to Minoxidil might be? Any suggestions anyone.

I guess I could just needle but I figure any results will take longer to happen.

Maybe its not the PG, but you cant tolerate the alcohol? There are solutions out there with little alcohol in it. Might be worth a shot

 

[Headdy]

No

Why do you think so?
I'm not using min, and some studies showed oils have a good effect.
I am very skeptic myself but it may be better than nothing.

 

[FCKW36]

Why do you think so?
I'm not using min, and some studies showed oils have a good effect.
I am very skeptic myself but it may be better than nothing.

I know because I read the Minoxidi and Rosemary oil study.

 

[Notreallyhere]

Just tried tried 2.5mm derminator session on fast speed . pain was same during as 2.0 or 1.5 but the after pain i feel like actually done some thing and the straight after minoxidil rub in was some next level sh*t . i think my hair was stopping me make depth at area of 80% of my scalp my whole head feeling like my hairline usually feels it it feels pumping and sharp. Probably don't help i a cup of rocket fuel coffee 30 mins before the session

 

[soull]

I read the non-responders study again.

The pathogenesis of androgenetic alopecia is multifactorial and is still not clear. The efficacy of the conventional therapies with respect to new hair growth is unsatisfactory. The present case series shows that the addition of microneedling procedure augments the response even in poor responders to conventional therapy.

As microneedling targets multiple pathogenetic factors of Androgenetic Alopecia, we are of the opinion that this procedure should be offered to patients with Androgenetic Alopecia for new and faster hair follicle stimulation.

However, the total number and frequency of sessions and long-term sustainability of response of microneedling need to be evaluated within a larger population.

This study is a great example of the need of micro needling on a long term basis. We know that we don't run out of wound heeling response. They also changed the frequency to every two weeks after the first month.


The more I read about micro needling, the more I'm convinced that it may not work for everyone but it will push the response rate of conventional therapies to the stratosphere. It all just makes sense because of two main things needling is doing.

1. Revascularization - Proven to help improve hair regrowth because the basic concept is similar to minoxidil - a vasodilator medication.

2. Growth Factors - I read multiple studies on the effect of hair transplant and the wound healing process after a transplant and they too concluded with biopsy studies that this effect seems to peak after 7 up to 21 days. But this is it and this may be the issue with wound healing response due to hair transplant. This one effect is not enough to do much for hair growth. It's literally just one session and that is it. I think it should be clear due to the patent released by follica that we will need multiple session just like skin microneedling sessions. And I think a monthly session after achieving decent enough regrowth would be optimal. In these transplant studies they tested biopsy and saw no 1. (Revascularization) happening too.

I think the effect of micro needling is cumulative because we don't run out of growth factors. The only issue is long term safety.

The above patients did not respond to conventional therapy and some of them also got a transplant which didn't work in their favor.

If I have not misunderstood (maybe if) apply microneedling toa person after having had a transplant would not work? I havenot been clear why...

I did 2, maybe this does not serve me...

 

[Bill_Russo]

If I have not misunderstood (maybe if) apply microneedling toa person after having had a transplant would not work? I havenot been clear why...

I did 2, maybe this does not serve me...

No, amigo. It says the transplant didn't go well for them. At least that's what I make of it. Rest easy!

 

[soull]

No, amigo. It says the transplant didn't go well for them. At least that's what I make of it. Rest easy!

Ahhh Thanks friend!!! Sometimes I get lost when I try totranslate ...

Gracias amigo!!

 

[sportsguy97]

I read the non-responders study again.

The pathogenesis of androgenetic alopecia is multifactorial and is still not clear. The efficacy of the conventional therapies with respect to new hair growth is unsatisfactory. The present case series shows that the addition of microneedling procedure augments the response even in poor responders to conventional therapy.

As microneedling targets multiple pathogenetic factors of Androgenetic Alopecia, we are of the opinion that this procedure should be offered to patients with Androgenetic Alopecia for new and faster hair follicle stimulation.

However, the total number and frequency of sessions and long-term sustainability of response of microneedling need to be evaluated within a larger population.

This study is a great example of the need of micro needling on a long term basis. We know that we don't run out of wound heeling response. They also changed the frequency to every two weeks after the first month.


The more I read about micro needling, the more I'm convinced that it may not work for everyone but it will push the response rate of conventional therapies to the stratosphere. It all just makes sense because of two main things needling is doing.

1. Revascularization - Proven to help improve hair regrowth because the basic concept is similar to minoxidil - a vasodilator medication.

2. Growth Factors - I read multiple studies on the effect of hair transplant and the wound healing process after a transplant and they too concluded with biopsy studies that this effect seems to peak after 7 up to 21 days. But this is it and this may be the issue with wound healing response due to hair transplant. This one effect is not enough to do much for hair growth. It's literally just one session and that is it. I think it should be clear due to the patent released by follica that we will need multiple session just like skin microneedling sessions. And I think a monthly session after achieving decent enough regrowth would be optimal. In these transplant studies they tested biopsy and saw no 1. (Revascularization) happening too.

These two things obviously work synergistically with conventional therapies.

Patient 1 - Before

View attachment 110156

Patient 1 - After

View attachment 110157



Before - Patient 1

View attachment 110158


After - Patient 1 result at 1 month, 3 months and 6 months points.


View attachment 110159


I think the effect of micro needling is cumulative because we don't run out of growth factors. The only issue is long term safety.

The above patients did not respond to conventional therapy and some of them also got a transplant which didn't work in their favor.

I agree and If the effect is cumulative then again its going to be beneficial to keep needling. I think people will respond at different rates. Still if after 3-5 months all i had was "peach fuzz". Wouldn't that be considered a good thing? If i got "only" a bunch of terminals after that period, maybe in the next 6 months i'll be able to turn them terminal. That is why i'm hoping people stick with this long term.

Once i get to where i want to i'm going to needle at most 1-2 times a month. Thats all i think we'd have to do for maitenance. What would be interesting is whether we could drop minoxidil or use it less frequently. I'll def use it, but maybe drop to 1ml per day, and see where that goes.

 

[Bill_Russo]

Ahhh Thanks friend!!! Sometimes I get lost when I try totranslate ...

Gracias amigo!!

Por eso envié el mensaje diciéndote lo de las traducciones. Yo estuve en tu lugar hace unos cuantos años y puede ser lioso.
¡De nada!

 

[soull]

No there is nothing wrong in that.

I was discussing wound healing response because a hair transplant. The one that happens after getting a hair transplant. The studies suggest that the effect was short lived. But the response was similar to microneedling apart from the shock loss. Since the procedure of hair transplant itself was just one session of wounding, it's effect wasn't good enough.

I wanted to research why people after a transplant do not get a similar response to microneedling and obviously it's because just one session isn't enough.

And Bill Russo is right about the other thing. Those pictures are of patients who had bad transplant results and did microneedling.

Hello, I must say that when I got a transplant within a fewmonths my crown had a moderate growth, I thought it mightbe the dutasteride. But to make me the second transplantimproved another part of my crown, this time the left side,making clear a picture where you can see the hair moredense in the other part more affected by alopecia.

 

[Wergi]

Hans Selye studied stress and his theory of General Adaptation is that stress induces calfication as a response.
Thus when men undergo stress is causes inflammation, which then DHT is sent to the sites of inflammation (the itching in the scalp)
and fibrosis/calcifcation occurs. It's clear to me now that this is somehow a local phenomena.

View attachment 110026
In our scalp tissues, increased androgens turn on more androgen receptors, and together, the increased DHT plus the increased androgen receptors results in calcification. Both DHT and androgen receptors must increase (not just one) for calcification to occur.

Interestingly, DHT plus androgen receptors also increase fibrosis in heart cells.

In other words, increased DHT + increased androgen receptors precede both calcification and fibrosis

https://perfecthairhealth.com/the-ultimate-hair-loss-flowchart-why-we-lose-our-hair/

I'm kind a worried that people NW3+ will not get results they want with only microneedling and minoxidil. At least not as fast as they want it to be. If calcium buildup is highest on the worst hit area, crown or temples, minoxidil will have a very hard time promoting new hair on those areas. I doubt microneedling is going to help either if pathways are blocked. Unless there is something to help adress it may take not 6 months but years for those people.

If I'm correct the best responders to needling+min will be diffuse thinners.

I wonder if we were to apply magnesium oil during each session would that be helpful. One guy in the comments made a suggestion related to that and response from Rob was:

'I wish it were that simple! Unfortunately for those with androgenic alopecia, magnesium oil very rarely moves the needle for inflammation-mediated scalp calcification, and for hair loss in general. It could be a penetrability problem (calcification observations in Androgenetic Alopecia extend below the galea aponeurotica). It could also be that the studies on magnesium and calcification dissipation, in vitro, aren’t translating well in vivo (as is the case with many supplements). Or it could be that because the chronic inflammation observed in Androgenetic Alopecia is likely tension-mediated, then targeting Androgenetic Alopecia-related scalp calcification with magnesium oil won’t be an effective approach until the tension that’s mediating the inflammation is first relieved. But regardless of the reasoning, I’ve yet to see impressive progress photos from magnesium oil (though I’d love to be wrong).'

If we assume microneedling took care of inflammation and penetrability problem, I don't see why it shouldn't help reverse calcification.

 

[MKP05]

I'm shedding a ton of hair since starting Microneedling.

Using minoxidil or not?

 

[FCKW36]

Using minoxidil or not?

Since 4 years or so.

 

[Arrade]

I'm kind a worried that people NW3+ will not get results they want with only microneedling and minoxidil. At least not as fast as they want it to be. If calcium buildup is highest on the worst hit area, crown or temples, minoxidil will have a very hard time promoting new hair on those areas. I doubt microneedling is going to help either if pathways are blocked. Unless there is something to help adress it may take not 6 months but years for those people.

If I'm correct the best responders to needling+min will be diffuse thinners.

I wonder if we were to apply magnesium oil during each session would that be helpful. One guy in the comments made a suggestion related to that and response from Rob was:

'I wish it were that simple! Unfortunately for those with androgenic alopecia, magnesium oil very rarely moves the needle for inflammation-mediated scalp calcification, and for hair loss in general. It could be a penetrability problem (calcification observations in Androgenetic Alopecia extend below the galea aponeurotica). It could also be that the studies on magnesium and calcification dissipation, in vitro, aren’t translating well in vivo (as is the case with many supplements). Or it could be that because the chronic inflammation observed in Androgenetic Alopecia is likely tension-mediated, then targeting Androgenetic Alopecia-related scalp calcification with magnesium oil won’t be an effective approach until the tension that’s mediating the inflammation is first relieved. But regardless of the reasoning, I’ve yet to see impressive progress photos from magnesium oil (though I’d love to be wrong).'

If we assume microneedling took care of inflammation and penetrability problem, I don't see why it shouldn't help reverse calcification.

Rob always denies supplements. I wouldn't use the oil on the scalp. Mk7 is being tested several times over to reverse calcification

 

[JWM2]

I've been doing it for about 9 months now. I dropped the frequency of minoxidil - I dropped from 2ml to 1ml a day - and could swear my hair got worse.

I'm now back to minoxidil 1ml two times a day and microneedling once a week, using minoxidil on all 7 days. I am convinced my hair looks and feels better since going back to how it is done in the study, although this time I am copying the Chinese study by applying minoxidil on all 7 days.

So does that mean you are applying minoxidil after your weekly wounding?

 

[Iah11]

Can

I've been doing it for about 9 months now. I dropped the frequency of minoxidil - I dropped from 2ml to 1ml a day - and could swear my hair got worse.

I'm now back to minoxidil 1ml two times a day and microneedling once a week, using minoxidil on all 7 days. I am convinced my hair looks and feels better since going back to how it is done in the study, although this time I am copying the Chinese study by applying minoxidil on all 7 days.

Cant find ur photos anymore, so i thought id ask directly. When did you first start to see signs that it was working?

 

[Bill_Russo]

So... Turns out doing inverted hangs on gymnastic rings is still not the best idea three days after needling.
This is maybe the biggest downside of this treatment. But still not too bad.