Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

Solxama

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Thanks! It's a process that's not for the impatient. I've seen some people get angry on here after 3-5 months on finasteride then think they need dutasteride or something more powerful. Like Janey said hair growth is a long journey that will require being content with the treatment for a fair amount of time, even though we all want instant results. CPA is powerful, 6.25mg or even less is what I'm comfortable with to lower my T, and of course the estrogel is doing most of the work alongside it. How long have you been on finasteride? It took a year and like 2 months for my results to peak on it. My temples filled in mostly but the hairline just got thicker and stopped receding which is why I got a transplant.
I've literally just started it 2 days ago, you can read my first post. I'll link it for you. In short I was a self-destructive idiot for years and because of this I have woken up in deep sh*t. So I need radical action. And if you're interested more in my story you can go through my other posts after my first one :) .

Link :
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I think that the AA's might accelerate things for people using say, under 3mg swallowed daily but I continue to separate two groups: 1) those to whom breast growth is anathema and 2) transgender or non-binary females for whom breast growth is usually of equal, if not greater importance comparatively, to restored hair. There's no evidence to my knowledge that using AA's will present less risk of breast growth or other feminization aside from perhaps androgenic strength indices. spironolactone had heavy, heavy "stereotypical" sides for me in terms of loss of strength and endurance. Some of that is probably due to its diuretic effects which can be heavy also, along with related fatigue/brain fog effects.

That being said, spironolactone is probably the safest of the three "AA's" which is HRT/cancer nomenclature that is used to mean meds that spoof higher estradiol/lower T levels without actually causing them in terms of circulating levels in the blood stream.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Question related to adding Estradiol to an already excellent male regime, including spironolactone and Oral Minoxidil

Dear Janey:


Thanks for your kind remarks. If you have pictures, then that is always helpful too. What I would suggest is titrating off the spironolactone entirely since using that with estradiol might have side effects that lower strength and cause fatigue much more than estrogen. Estrogen is a hormone that works in a way that can be hard to follow because it has two main effects. It starts breasts growth at very low levels in cis-females but it "finishes" the overall female body in terms of effects as one hits adult female levels of say, a 25 year old female.

Paradoxically, then, for those who use HRT just for their hair, I recommend higher amounts of estradiol than found in teen girls. For transgender females, I recommend a year of low-dose estradiol to preserve the best breast growth environment and then switching after breast growth is sufficient to much higher levels for hair and facial effects. At your age, further beard development would be forestalled most likely unless and until you went off estradiol but I don't think that we know for sure. It might be permanently stunted as seems to be the case for female to male transgender folks who rarely seem to have beards that look "right" in terms of thickness.

If your beard is largely already in, then it probably won't be affected by using estradiol either way. Do you have any idea as to what type of estradiol you would want to use? Your current regime, if you added once to twice weekly microneedling with minoxidil as a carrier, is already as good as it gets for males not using estradiol so I commend you on that. Check the main thread and my thread for some posts between several people related to all of this. I still think that my being transgender after formerly fighting baldness for 30-something years in a male context is a large advantage in terms of putting the pieces together. I have had what some would characterize as fairly extreme feminization so I try to always highlight this. @bridge had similar feminization effects. One thing I note is that both he and I are somewhat short of stature and slight of build and males who are taller but especially broader and larger-boned might not have any external effects that are visible at all and I answer unfortunate MtF's like this fairly frequently on the Reddit boards. I am going to post this on my thread and the Bridge thread without any information personal to you, if you don't mind.

A lot of young guys seem to be considering HRT for hair loss and my goal is to provide the best scientific and anecdotal experience about the "whole package".

Best,
Janey
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I had a follow-up related to individuals who can't micro-needle for one reason or another and we are talking about needles so it's far from an unindicated concern, as well as effects on beard growth and my opinions thereto:

"Smaller guys like me and perhaps you, also at 5' 7" (I might have lost an inch due to shortening of tendons and ligaments caused by HRT and aging) with finer features, at least up to a point, by using estrogens and HRT, can look more "GQ" (or stylish if you don't know that magazine). GQ focused on more refined male styles of grooming and dress without being frumpy or "feminine". I think ultra-thick beards look best on large males as it goes along with the bulkiness. They also look better to me, the straighter the beard hair is and the less coarse it is. Stubble and clean faces probably look better on thinner, younger faces.

The other thing, is that to me, this is more or less, reverse bodybuilding, not so much in terms of strength but in terms of what I can achieve at the age of 56 in terms of looking a certain way. So, except for surgery, which for me would be last, I have tried to transition using only HRT, mechanical methods like microneedling and purported "temporary" salon treatments like botox and filler which might work far more effectively for MtF's on a one-time basis similar to providing a mold for the estrogen-influenced facial changes in fat, skin and cartilage to be effectuated more quickly and more distinctively.

Botox on either side of your jaw, on the masseter muscles, might in some ways act similarly to massage or microneedling, so you might want to consider that. It's not very expensive and has at least one study backing its efficacy in terms of promoting hair growth. The thought is that the male facial muscles in that area can over-develop due to muscular chewing actions and bruxism. This overdevelopment pulls on the areas in the back, sides and purportedly most of all in the temples. Botox relaxation might lessen the surface tension of the scalp in these areas and help with hair loss via this medication's stunting of the muscles involved. Such overly rigid areas might also be associated with DUPA which I also had/have."
 
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Solxama

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Thank you for all this information @JaneyElizabeth .

As for the effects of HRT, hair is the most important for me, but I won't lie, most of the other effects beside gyno I think I will like a lot, like the lowered libido, emotional effects, better skin, less body hair etc. I might not be aiming to transition into a woman, but this does not mean I don't want to be a bit more androgynous or even feminine, not only in soul but also in body :) .
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Thank you for all this information @JaneyElizabeth .

As for the effects of HRT, hair is the most important for me, but I won't lie, most of the other effects beside gyno I think I will like a lot, like the lowered libido, emotional effects, better skin, less body hair etc. I might not be aiming to transition into a woman, but this does not mean I don't want to be a bit more androgynous or even feminine, not only in soul but also in body :) .
Feeling a bit inspired enough to take this on.

I have noted at times, not often, some of the reactions of others to the display of my "sissy" pride in terms of the progression of my hair but also facial and body changes compared to those into bodybuilding, which I deem to be similar in many ways.

Remember Entourage with Johnny Drama and the calf implants? For many, "building" an MtF body requires similar things in terms of opting for non-strength training versus training in movement, grace, limberness, and using both surgery and steroidal intervention to push our bodies to to look a way that would be impossible otherwise. I think that bodybuilding is seen here as having value in itself while MtF "bodybuilding" is seen as frivolous or shocking.

Somehow leaning over and smiling, yes, a stereotypical female posture in media, is seen as more threatening than flexing all but pornographic pecs/breasts and waterboard abs for all to admire, if not lust over, is just as much of a frank thing sexually but hidden behind the utility of "improving the male form" and health. It shocks me too to see my unclothed breasts in spite of my being fully XY and legal and all because they look feminine. Somehow gyno looks yuck but not feminine. FtM's post shirtless pics which seem to shock no one. Female-looking body parts seem to be sexualized and I know that so I try to weigh that against the aspect that guys/XY need to know what they are potentially going to end up looking like.

The psychological effects are pretty much unavoidable albeit tempered by education, culture, manners and body size. I estimate that it is necessary to hit higher than normal cis-female targets for several years to provide an environment in which hair restoration can occur. Compare this to cis-females who also might exceed average levels for a while but who comprise all but the null set compared to MtF's in terms of consistently being able to hit these higher levels for many years without apparent insult to health. Many transitioning MtF's even aside from beard removal, which can take five to ten years off one's face, look very young and estrogen moves incrementally, males faces back towards the cartoon ideal of big mouths and big eyes dominating perception of facial features and being closer together as opposed to more spread out by bone growth and lack of cheek fat.

Focusing on the psychological aspect, we have very little way to test any of this save anecdotally, empirically and looking back at the history of involuntary castration and eunuchs. None of this conversation is particularly polite dinner conversation but most of the stereotypes are true about T and E2 and account for the differences between XX's and XY's. Now, the various types of intersex people also exhibit certain tendencies here. But it's not discrimination or an accident that with the exception of charges for substance abuse, women are largely not found in the correctional system. To me, the "feminist" argument that nurture entirely or primarily accounts for difference accounts between the sexes is all but bereft of any data in support of it except that yes, education, culture and the notion of being a gentleman, are social tactics used to milk the best from especially young XY's, as opposed to the rage.

Body size probably accounts for the rest of the inclination of females and males towards stereotypical work--yes, small hands were better for short-hand and typing while only men and quite large and strong ones continue to do 99 percent of the stereotypical work done by males historically. Robots and computers are siphoning off some of that work as well. Smaller, "well-behaved", diplomatic males are much more likely in my estimation to achieve success today than very large, aggressive, males, mainly inclined towards substance abuse and rage. I have felt that rage and I know it well. It goes along with less discernment about say driving speeds or how much alcohol is enough.

Estradiol in my opinion will tone down the male "rough" edges in virtually all males as age and T-related decline pursuant thereto does eventually as well. I also note though an increase in "giddiness" that seems stereotypically female, that I encounter at levels above 300 pg/ml. I have always been an irreverent person but this aspect seems to be again, at say, adolescent levels in terms of not understanding the "grown-ups" who run the country and why they are all always so serious.

While HRT at adult cis-female levels will almost entirely remove the incel/cuckold compulsive "loser" psychological aspect that I see on here to a disturbing extent and this same vibe, if you will has taken over a lot of p**rn/transgender p**rn, it might be replaced at higher E2 levels by a different sort of submissive posture both towards "real. i.e., cis-females", especially attractive and "leader" types as well as something in between being agender and not especially resistant to what might be called "sl*t" mentality among certain types of cis-females. Some MtF's are actively shooting to look and be perceived as "bimbos" or bambi's as they are also referred to. The eunuch notion of MtF's without SRS having very high value seems to have made deep inroads into homosexual culture with its former emphasis on tops, bottoms and versatile's. My joke about versatile male homosexual couples is that they never have sex because neither one cares enough to say "bottoms up".

I know people say or want to say, "stick with the hair, Janey", and leave the speeches to Malcom X but all of us know that HRT is fraught with both psychological baggage and psychological peril. Many people think that I am somehow enticing the young of the HairLossTalk.com world into transgenderism but in my mind, I do the opposite. But if my hair grows back, which seems to be, inevitable Goddess be blessed, then I know people in my family will try to say that I left my wife and children to pursue hair or something equally vapid. But because in my own situation, I cannot still distinguish between being transgender and androgynous but male, I struggle to see how others can do this with the very rare exception of people like Bridge, who also has an accepting partner.

I essentially see three categories of XY's now: those born feeling female from birth, who often transition early, those now using it for hair and other things as either straight or non-binary and those like me, who had age non-dependent psychological movement towards feeling/being female "inside" that had an apparent rapid onset after my family was complete, perhaps freeing me psychologically of needing to be male.

Because of its effects on tissue regeneration and extensive skin, fat, ligament, tendon and cartilage effects, E2 therapy has a huge amount to offer older men as well. The younger XY's avoid some of the excesses of T on hair and face while older XY's might essentially have a semi-realistic 2nd Puberty, as well, as we call it, in which protuberances in many ways seem re-matrixed anew. This is, or can be all mind-blowing and the further from first puberty that one is, the more amazing it might seem.

It's likely this aspect that disturbs so many heteronormatives and I get it completely. People were grudgingly okay with "transsexuals" as they essentially went "poof" for the most part as "threats" to conventional society after SRS and SRS until recently was required before one could enter an HRT program. You had to sign a contract and you needed two doctors to post-sign it before surgery would be approved, even on your own dime. Such transsexual females were if anything, to me, it appears more cis-female-like than cis-females after surgery in terms of behavior and goals, and the primary one was fitting in among cis-females since psychologically most such were entirely female. Now we have people on the same medications, with a similar name but many of them/us are instead undermining clothing stereotypes that I personally oppose being compulsive but I find female clothing much more comfortable, expressive and attractive on the body that I currently have. I am not psychologically compelled to dress "female" but I don't want to give it up so that requires changes in my own familial and employment goals, along with target friendships.

So I differ here from some others who post because ab initio, I see few if any physical risks of using HRT for hair. I see substantial psychological risks however from unleashing something that spirals into something inescapable potentially. People talk about de-transition in media a lot but they still do it from the viewpoint of transsexuals and that's not how this works. Once a person perceives himself, herself, themself as trans, that's trans for life because the sexual preference aspect tends not to accompany the feminization aspect. A person who likes men can de-transition but then they are gay "again". Bridge appeared to be extraordinary in many ways. He was an interesting and provocative writer, who drew viewers by folks just wanting to see what was possible. He was never anti-transgender nor pro-transgender, he was just Bridge, an extremely intelligent person, living in a very different culture who could seemingly balance all of this. It's a lot harder than Bridge made it because he was so secure in who he was and what he sought.

Finally, if this works for me like it did for Bridge, I have mixed feelings about it becoming widely done except by people facing limited life potential/suicidal ideation. The fact that we still don't know exactly why HRT feminizes hair and face so thoroughly for some and not for others or even most, might make it less of a psychological necessity for guys who do want their hair back but who want nothing to do with any of this transgender "stuff". It isolates their hair loss even further from females who largely lack baldness and non-white/Semitic races which face much less baldness in general and often no pubertal hair distinctions at all compared to white male scalp hair and beard hair. I have seen comments even by XY's with excellent hair results in which they appear to feel compelled to do this for their hair. I might have felt that way at the beginning but I no longer do but that's the aspect of feeling trapped, of Catch-22 and as Bart said, being damned if you do and damned if you don't. But testosterone is a ticking time bomb of sorts and hair loss waits for no man. Treatment delayed is often if not virtually always, something that is compulsive in fact in terms of hair loss because with the uncertain exception of HRT where everything works right, baldness is permanent for males.

Janey
 
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Solxama

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You sure do like typing a lot @JaneyElizabeth , very interesting insights by the way.

To be honest some of the effects of HRT seem a little scary if you think about it, but like I said, a lot of them would be pretty cool for me. I can't even imagine the alternative, that is becoming a bald, full of body hair, manly guy with large hands and feet. Even the thought of this makes me want to throw up. These thoughts made me suspect I might be trans during the time when I was doing a lot of introspection, but that's not the case - I can't imagine myself as a girl either. I just want to stay the way I am now as much as possible, but with hair ;) . So in short a feminine male with an androgynous body.

So it seems like I fit into the second category of XY's you mentioned, probably in the non-binary subgroup. I don't want to be a man as in what the word means relating to appearance and the implied gender role, but I don't mind being biologically male.

I see you edited some interesting stuff in, so I'll reply to it by saying this : After all the introspection I have done during the last two years, I am fairly sure that I'm pretty damn secure and confident in who I am, and what I desire. Like I could spend literally weeks thinking about some minor psychological or emotional stuff. So I don't think HRT will change the core of who I am, maybe it will change some things in my self expression, or emotions, but that's not a problem for me.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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You sure do like typing a lot @JaneyElizabeth , very interesting insights by the way.

To be honest some of the effects of HRT seem a little scary if you think about it, but like I said, a lot of them would be pretty cool for me. I can't even imagine the alternative, that is becoming a bald, full of body hair, manly guy with large hands and feet. Even the thought of this makes me want to throw up. These thoughts made me suspect I might be trans during the time when I was doing a lot of introspection, but that's not the case - I can't imagine myself as a girl either. I just want to stay the way I am now as much as possible, but with hair ;) . So in short a feminine male with an androgynous body.

So it seems like I fit into the second category of XY's you mentioned, probably in the non-binary subgroup. I don't want to be a man as in what the word means relating to appearance and the implied gender role, but I don't mind being biologically male.

I see you edited some interesting stuff in, so I'll reply to it by saying this : After all the introspection I have done during the last two years, I am fairly sure that I'm pretty damn secure and confident in who I am, and what I desire. Like I could spend literally weeks thinking about some minor psychological or emotional stuff. So I don't think HRT will change the core of who I am, maybe it will change some things in my self expression, or emotions, but that's not a problem for me.
I feel that from your posts. I tend to feel the need, perhaps like you do, to explain myself in all of this. Bridge was more comfortable not doing that but also, as the first to really do this and write about it and record it pictorially, he was generally almost put up on an awe-like pedestal. He was fairly young but people aren't impressed by maintenance in terms of hair loss so guys who have never been substantially bald, never will be seen in the same way as Bridge who in most ways, apart from his talents and knowledge, was seen as weird, threatening and ugly before he fully "feminized" if you will. He said it himself. I use my before and after pics in deprecation as to why my ex was right to not want that "guy" around anymore. For most of us, it behooves us to be as "normal" as we can before others. You are unlikely to have to worry about developing/exhibiting your new/different psychological state. I am uncertain whether Janey is a brand name of sorts, a personality that I am developing, a long phase or the ego/personality always in control behind the scenes. I haven't shied away from illeism because illeism and the distinction between who I was and who I am and project to be, is the key thing in my existence now in terms of returning/normalizing relations with my family. I should have just told them I was suffering from an endocrine disorder, which was true, and ultimately, many transgender females do. They will do this just to stop the noise from testosterone, sex or no sex at a certain point and the sexual aspect becomes much, much less compulsive but it's there.
 
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Experimentality

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I have been telling everyone on here that AA's are not necessary since I signed on. AA's for the most part only exist to reduce the amounts of estradiol needed to reach levels. The reason that one used to especially limit estradiol/estrogens is because the main two medications with an estradiol-like structure, were one synthetic, in ethinyl estradiol or two, contained substantial non-human equine estrogens. These were much less safe in terms of blood clots and liver damage.

Those two meds continue most likely to be the highest sold HRT/birth control meds in the world but virtually everyone with means or access uses bio-identical estradiol. AA's appear to do very little for hair growth sans estrogen and what they do do, is probably by raising estrogen itself. To his credit, Almas went round and round on this issue with me and with a couple of other folks that I don't see on here as much anymore, one of them an intern to be a physician in Brazil. You can grow hair fine with AA's but no one has articulated any process by which they might be necessary save for those who don't respond to estrogen. AA's might get a person to limits quicker but patches and injections and Estrogel probably do this as quickly as anyone might want.

I do use dutasteride/finasteride but that is for DHT, not testosterone lowering. Duta/finasteride both seem to be inclined to raise T some. DHT also to a certain extent provides a floor should things not proceed in terms of hair loss. There's zero reason to believe in my estimation that low-dose estradiol is better for hair results than is high dose. Low-dow is indicated for those seeking the best breast growth possible. High-dose seems to feminize more quickly for facial feminization and hair. But most XY's probably don't want either facial feminization or breasts and Bridge got both, large amounts of both, and he used large amounts of AA's.

Most people on HRT believe that AA's are tools, somehow, arrows in our quiver to chase or modify results. They are not and adding an extra med might not hurt but again it might but you actually know less about what is going on with the more implicated meds. Anyone thinking about only AA's, as was even recent thought on here six months back, should desist. It won't work to regrow hair and it might led to a massive shed. To do this, optimally, you need one "male" med, dutasteride, one female med, estradiol, one hair growth med, minoxidil and everyone should microneedle once weekly. If there are signs of inflammation and for shed control, add keto.

That's far more simplified than trying to manage AA and estradiol dose. Do those four things/steps and it either works or it doesn't. There appears to be no other way, save Serms, which present even more meds that are uncertain in effect to deal with.
Partly agree with you here. AA's are not needed in the sense that high enough E2 doses will do everything that AA's do (and more). However, pure AA's will halt Androgenetic Alopecia in all individuals. If you are still experiencing hair loss on a prostate cancer-dose of Apalutamide, Enzalutamide or Darolutamide your hairloss is not androgenic but due to another cause. Bicalutamide, as said, is more difficult to assess since it is non-pure and may not fully block the AR. I also think Apalutamide and Darolutamide are pretty clean since they target almost exclusively the AR and do not cause elevated liver enzymes (they are 'liver safe', unlike Bicalutamide). Of course, they carry all sides you would expect from blocking AR's, and they are extremely expensive as well (orally). If one does not care about money and is going down the HRT route, they might as well add Apa/Daro to they regimen. Enzalutamide has off-target GABA binding that causes seizures in some individuals, and can be considered inferior for this reason. It should be noted that anecdotally, AA's on their own are not known for causing regrowth but more so for maintenaince.

I am not sure why you think currently available SERMs are valueable additions to hairloss protocols except for gyno prevention (SERMs are not very healthy either and should be avoided as much as possible).
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Partly agree with you here. AA's are not needed in the sense that high enough E2 doses will do everything that AA's do (and more). However, pure AA's will halt Androgenetic Alopecia in all individuals. If you are still experiencing hair loss on a prostate cancer-dose of Apalutamide, Enzalutamide or Darolutamide your hairloss is not androgenic but due to another cause. Bicalutamide, as said, is more difficult to assess since it is non-pure and may not fully block the AR. I also think Apalutamide and Darolutamide are pretty clean since they target almost exclusively the AR and do not cause elevated liver enzymes (they are 'liver safe', unlike Bicalutamide). Of course, they carry all sides you would expect from blocking AR's, and they are extremely expensive as well (orally). If one does not care about money and is going down the HRT route, they might as well add Apa/Daro to they regimen. Enzalutamide has off-target GABA binding that causes seizures in some individuals, and can be considered inferior for this reason. It should be noted that anecdotally, AA's on their own are not known for causing regrowth but more so for maintenaince.

I am not sure why you think currently available SERMs are valueable additions to hairloss protocols except for gyno prevention (SERMs are not very healthy either and should be avoided as much as possible).
I am not high on Serms at all. Mostly the Serm questions on Reddit go unanswered. A few non-binary folks have asserted success. Serms are mostly for people seeking a chimerical body form, meaning mixing of parts in terms of the perceptions of others. Usually these folks either seek only breast growth, or buttocks and hip growth. Some transgender individuals if not most on HRT exhibit some forms of both sexual looks. Janey might argue that seeking just hair as an XY is seeking a chimerical look but since some white XY's do have essentially perfect hair for life that can even grow to long lengths, this aspect is muted.

It's hard for me to be against people using HRT for whatever they want; the genie is out of the bottle but I am sort of eh about this usage of Serms as it appears to me when answering questions that such folks are sort of dabblers or wannabe's but they are still data points. I believe people should start out using the least amount of meds for HRT possible and that parenteral ingestion, i.e. non-oral, is safest. I think that the patches are the best ingestion method of high-dose estradiol overall.
 

Solxama

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I feel that from your posts. I tend to feel the need, perhaps like you do, to explain myself in all of this. Bridge was more comfortable not doing that but also, as the first to really do this and write about it and record it pictorially, he was generally almost put up on an awe-like pedestal. He was fairly young but people aren't impressed by maintenance in terms of hair loss so guys who have never been substantially bald, never will be seen in the same way as Bridge who in most ways, apart from his talents and knowledge, was seen as weird, threatening and ugly before he fully "feminized" if you will. He said it himself. I use my before and after pics in deprecation as to why my ex was right to not want that "guy" around anymore. For most of us, it behooves us to be as "normal" as we can before others. You are unlikely to have to worry about developing/exhibiting your new/different psychological state. I am uncertain whether Janey is a brand name of sorts, a personality that I am developing, a long phase or the ego/personality always in control behind the scenes. I haven't shied away from illeism because illeism and the distinction between who I was and who I am and project to be, is the key thing in my existence now in terms of returning/normalizing relations with my family. I should have just told them I was suffering from an endocrine disorder, which was true, and ultimately, many transgender females do. They will do this just to stop the noise from testosterone, sex or no sex at a certain point and the sexual aspect becomes much, much less compulsive but it's there.
Yeah, I do seem to have a a need to explain myself, I think this stems from the fact that people love dualism and shoving everything into categories. The amount of times I have heard that I must be this or that just because I say, believe or do something is such a big number that I prefer to simply explain myself clearly, so nobody assumes stuff about me. Sometimes it's so tiring simply being yourself in this world lol.

Interesting stuff about SERMs, @Experimentality . As for me I won't be using them with my new regimen, my plan is to reduce gyno by staying slim and on a diet so I don't provide enough fat for big breast growth. If the gyno somehow still manages to get really bad, I might try them, but even then I'm not so sure. I have accepted it as an inevitable side effect for a chance to get my hair back. I neglected myself and my body, I let my hair die for years and I did nothing to save it, so now when the situation is desperate, gyno is the price I will have to pay.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Yeah, I do seem to have a a need to explain myself, I think this stems from the fact that people love dualism and shoving everything into categories. The amount of times I have heard that I must be this or that just because I say, believe or do something is such a big number that I prefer to simply explain myself clearly, so nobody assumes stuff about me. Sometimes it's so tiring simply being yourself in this world lol.

Interesting stuff about SERMs, @Experimentality . As for me I won't be using them with my new regimen, my plan is to reduce gyno by staying slim and on a diet so I don't provide enough fat for big breast growth. If the gyno somehow still manages to get really bad, I might try them, but even then I'm not so sure. I have accepted it as an inevitable side effect for a chance to get my hair back. I neglected myself and my body, I let my hair die for years and I did nothing to save it, so now when the situation is desperate, gyno is the price I will have to pay.
I tell myself that if I get back down to 125 pounds like I was often as a male, then I might be able to obscure what breast growth is left, if I wanted to but then I realized that doing so might make my *** deflate and look scrawny so once I can forget about what my extended family thinks and just be in the moment with my immediate family then much of this should resolve because I am just me, better and happier and I already did the male thing once and I wasn't going to top that experience regardless. So I jumped ship and I haven't looked back personally.

I had a really good run as a male, with many beautiful, brilliant children and a rich beautiful wife until the psychological aspects of testosterone and the external ones became toxic. Even if I were not trans, my training is in economics and things like marginal cost and opportunity cost and the opportunity and marginal costs of remaining male were excessive, far beyond bothering to maintain objectively and certainly not subjectively, even if it is hard on some of the few people who at least were involved in my life to see me this way.
 

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I tell myself that if I get back down to 125 pounds like I was often as a male, then I might be able to obscure what breast growth is left, if I wanted to but then I realized that doing so might make my *** deflate and look scrawny so once I can forget about what my extended family thinks and just be in the moment with my immediate family then much of this should resolve because I am just me, better and happier and I already did the male thing once and I wasn't going to top that experience regardless. So I jumped ship and I haven't looked back personally.

I had a really good run as a male, with many beautiful, brilliant children and a rich beautiful wife until the psychological aspects of testosterone and the external ones became toxic. Even if I were not trans, my training is in economics and things like marginal cost and opportunity cost and the opportunity and marginal costs of remaining male were excessive, far beyond bothering to maintain objectively and certainly not subjectively, even if it is hard on some of the few people who at least were involved in my life to see me this way.
The testosterone toxic thing really speaks to me, as I think I have some kind of Androgen allergy or something lol. I started balding at the age of 17, my skin is very demanding, I generally feel unwell when doing T raising activities like lifting, I dislike the male sex drive and aggression that I struggled with for a long time etc. It's like my body hates it's own hormones.

Another thing pointing me in this direction is the fact that since I started drinking Spearmint Tea, which is a natural (but weak) anti-androgen I generally started feeling much better, and then after starting Finasteride a few days ago I already noticed that I never before felt as peaceful in my life, except while meditating. Maybe it's placebo with the Fina, as I'm only on it for a few days, who knows? Either way, I will keep monitoring how I feel.
 

Pls_NW-1

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I felt like I should have been posting something the last week's.

Finasteride didn't work on me, literally no changes after MONTHS. Doctors suspect it's now a genetic's disease. They took a blood draw and are making now a gen-test in the laboratory, if I am positive for Congenital adrenal hyperplasia. If not, I am having an appointment already for september to check my abdomen.

GG
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I felt like I should have been posting something the last week's.

Finasteride didn't work on me, literally no changes after MONTHS. Doctors suspect it's now a genetic's disease. They took a blood draw and are making now a gen-test in the laboratory, if I am positive for Congenital adrenal hyperplasia. If not, I am having an appointment already for september to check my abdomen.

GG
Well, you are a young gentleman and a scholar and I will hold out a good thought for you. I don't know enough about that condition to comment.

Without you and Almas and me and Tato posting, again this thread is not an everyday thing so I didn't see this until now. For some reason, the system doesn't ping me about this thread but if I post on one of the various "my life is over" threads to try to talk someone off the proverbial ledge, I get scores of typical incel responses very few of which interest me. Nobody posts pics on this thread anymore except for the people asking for help, which is fine but originally, I saw this as the thread where we all made the case for HRT as viable for most XY's, if they could hack the sides and the psychological baggage. We have people pop in from time to time to complain if I post seemingly extraneous material and then they disappear anyway, offering nothing in its place and you and Almas made an important contribution with respect to bicaluatamide and I enjoyed going around in circles with you guys about that. Almas was a quick but important data point as he abandoned single shot bica and then disappeared into the ether after going on E2 injections.

I will follow your situation with interest and Goddess or G_D, if that's your thing, bless you and keep you safe from harm and with hair.

Best,
Janey
 

Solxama

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Don't worry @JaneyElizabeth , when I get my hands on HRT I will be posting a lot of pictures and hopefully my case will be another example that this stuff works for hair loss.

Anyway, I'm about to take my 7th Finasteride pill, thus nearly a week has passed since I took my first dose. I have already noticed some effects, I'll split them into positive and negative, here we go :

Positive (Some of these may be considered negative by most men, but I'm not a typical male, so I consider them positive) :
-Feeling a strong inner peace and calm.
-Lower libido (No more morning wood, wet dreams, intrusive sexual thoughts).
-Expressing my emotions has become easier.
-It's easier to clear my mind during meditation, and I generally find it easier to concentrate.
-My sleep is better and my dreams are more vivid.
-Body Hair seems to be regrowing slower, it's been 5 days since I last shaved, and it's still pretty short and practically only visible close up.

Negative :
-My balls hurt like hell for the first three days, now it's mostly gone, but still I feel like having mild blue balls.
-My stomach hurt for the first four days, and I had constipation, but now it's gone.

To be honest, I can kind of understand why most traditionally masculine men may be anxious about starting this stuff, as it really does seem to have the side effects that are spoken about. I don't mind them, in fact I love most of them, but I can see why it would bother some sexually active, gender conforming men. Not to sound smug or anything, but it seems that baldness for some is an inevitability if they want to remain "real men", so I'm glad I'm different, as I don't need to concern myself with things like that HAHAHA... Ok, maybe I am a bit smug lol ;)

If this so called "male" drug and a pretty weak one at that has all these effects on me, I wonder what kind of effect HRT will have... I can't wait to find out :D .

Also a really positive thing happened today, I don't have to hide my Fina anymore! My mum started her talk with me once again about my potential future family, girlfriend etc. Normally I end these conversations quickly, but this time (probably due to the effects of Fina lol) I stood my ground and came out to her as Asexual, and also told her I am on Fina as hair is more important to me then my libido. And the best part of this is, she accepted it! To be honest, she was pretty reluctant to, but in the end she told me that if hair is so important to me, she won't try to persuade me to stop. I still don't plan to tell her about HRT, as I prefer to take things slowly, but this gave me hope that when I visit her during the next few years, and she sees me with gyno and feminization (and hopefully hair), maybe her reaction won't be as bad as I imagined.

PS. @Pls_NW-1 , I'm so sad that Finasteride didn't work out for you, I wish you to stay strong and I hope that your health and hair loss issues get better soon :).
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Don't worry @JaneyElizabeth , when I get my hands on HRT I will be posting a lot of pictures and hopefully my case will be another example that this stuff works for hair loss.

Anyway, I'm about to take my 7th Finasteride pill, thus nearly a week has passed since I took my first dose. I have already noticed some effects, I'll split them into positive and negative, here we go :

Positive (Some of these may be considered negative by most men, but I'm not a typical male, so I consider them positive) :
-Feeling a strong inner peace and calm.
-Lower libido (No more morning wood, wet dreams, intrusive sexual thoughts).
-Expressing my emotions has become easier.
-It's easier to clear my mind during meditation, and I generally find it easier to concentrate.
-My sleep is better and my dreams are more vivid.
-Body Hair seems to be regrowing slower, it's been 5 days since I last shaved, and it's still pretty short and practically only visible close up.

Negative :
-My balls hurt like hell for the first three days, now it's mostly gone, but still I feel like having mild blue balls.
-My stomach hurt for the first four days, and I had constipation, but now it's gone.

To be honest, I can kind of understand why most traditionally masculine men may be anxious about starting this stuff, as it really does seem to have the side effects that are spoken about. I don't mind them, in fact I love most of them, but I can see why it would bother some sexually active, gender conforming men. Not to sound smug or anything, but it seems that baldness for some is an inevitability if they want to remain "real men", so I'm glad I'm different, as I don't need to concern myself with things like that HAHAHA... Ok, maybe I am a bit smug lol ;)

If this so called "male" drug and a pretty weak one at that has all these effects on me, I wonder what kind of effect HRT will have... I can't wait to find out :D .

Also a really positive thing happened today, I don't have to hide my Fina anymore! My mum started her talk with me once again about my potential future family, girlfriend etc. Normally I end these conversations quickly, but this time (probably due to the effects of Fina lol) I stood my ground and came out to her as Asexual, and also told her I am on Fina as hair is more important to me then my libido. And the best part of this is, she accepted it! To be honest, she was pretty reluctant to, but in the end she told me that if hair is so important to me, she won't try to persuade me to stop. I still don't plan to tell her about HRT, as I prefer to take things slowly, but this gave me hope that when I visit her during the next few years, and she sees me with gyno and feminization (and hopefully hair), maybe her reaction won't be as bad as I imagined.

PS. @Pls_NW-1 , I'm so sad that Finasteride didn't work out for you, I wish you to stay strong and I hope that your health and hair loss issues get better soon :).
Placebo effects. Nobody said anything remotely like that when I started finasteride in 1998 and I have never felt anything from taking finasteride to the point that I can't tell if I miss a day or even when I went off it last year. Nothing. I never grew any hair from min/finasteride together but I was always seeking maintenance. If estrogen and spironolactone don't cause ball ache or whatever, why would finasteride?
 

Solxama

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Placebo effects. Nobody said anything remotely like that when I started finasteride in 1998 and I have never felt anything from taking finasteride to the point that I can't tell if I miss a day or even when I went off it last year. Nothing. I never grew any hair from min/finasteride together but I was always seeking maintenance. If estrogen and spironolactone don't cause ball ache or whatever, why would finasteride?
Well, for the first time I will have to disagree with you @JaneyElizabeth . I'm not trying to insult you, so don't take it that way, as I really do appreciate your vast knowledge and friendliness, but the mindset of "I don't have these effects, so it must be false" is in my opinion very wrong and even unscientific, as every person is different in how they react to medication.

Yes, some of the effects I have listed are most likely placebo, I said it myself in the post before the last one, but I know for a fact some of them are definitely not, as they are even listed on the insert leaflet in the box, for example the lowered libido. To be honest I didn't expect any effects, so it's also not likely that I thought myself into all of them. I think the explanation for these effects is different, and has a lot to do with myself. First, the thing that I call a "Androgen allergy" has a lot to do here. Since I am now lowering about 70% of my DHT, which is the strongest Androgen, I am feeling better as my body seems to hate Androgens. The second reason is my own fault, I have been doing mindfulness meditation since June 2019, and this greatly strengthens the mind-body connection, so it basically made me hypersensitive to a lot of things, including medication.

As for the ball ache thing, this is also listed on the leaflet, but as a "unknown rate of occurrence" side effect. I also know why it happened to me. Since November 2019, I have fully stopped masturbation, my only ejaculations since then are wet dreams. This means my balls don't really produce much sperm, since my "tank" is basically full at all times, and only empties through wet dreams and reabsorption of semen (And that does not happen very often, the semen cycle is about 64 days). This leads to my balls feeling heavy all the time. As we all know, DHT is the strongest Androgen that is now being blocked with Fina, so my body tried to compensate it's lack for the first few days by producing more T, a known effect of Finasteride. So when we combine this effect with my balls feeling heavy and not really used to working that much, I think it could most likely be the reason for my discomfort during the first few days. Now it's mostly gone, like 90%. I know this sounds pretty weird, but other people have noticed the same thing with Fina, I found others describing the ball ache on reddit.

Once again, I'm not trying to discredit you Janey, I'm just pointing out that every person is different, I hope you don't mind :)
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Well, for the first time I will have to disagree with you @JaneyElizabeth . I'm not trying to insult you, so don't take it that way, as I really do appreciate your vast knowledge and friendliness, but the mindset of "I don't have these effects, so it must be false" is in my opinion very wrong and even unscientific, as every person is different in how they react to medication.

Yes, some of the effects I have listed are most likely placebo, I said it myself in the post before the last one, but I know for a fact some of them are definitely not, as they are even listed on the insert leaflet in the box, for example the lowered libido. To be honest I didn't expect any effects, so it's also not likely that I thought myself into all of them. I think the explanation for these effects is different, and has a lot to do with myself. First, the thing that I call a "Androgen allergy" has a lot to do here. Since I am now lowering about 70% of my DHT, which is the strongest Androgen, I am feeling better as my body seems to hate Androgens. The second reason is my own fault, I have been doing mindfulness meditation since June 2019, and this greatly strengthens the mind-body connection, so it basically made me hypersensitive to a lot of things, including medication.

As for the ball ache thing, this is also listed on the leaflet, but as a "unknown rate of occurrence" side effect. I also know why it happened to me. Since November 2019, I have fully stopped masturbation, my only ejaculations since then are wet dreams. This means my balls don't really produce much sperm, since my "tank" is basically full at all times, and only empties through wet dreams and reabsorption of semen (And that does not happen very often, the semen cycle is about 64 days). This leads to my balls feeling heavy all the time. As we all know, DHT is the strongest Androgen that is now being blocked with Fina, so my body tried to compensate it's lack for the first few days by producing more T, a known effect of Finasteride. So when we combine this effect with my balls feeling heavy and not really used to working that much, I think it could most likely be the reason for my discomfort during the first few days. Now it's mostly gone, like 90%. I know this sounds pretty weird, but other people have noticed the same thing with Fina, I found others describing the ball ache on reddit.

Once again, I'm not trying to discredit you Janey, I'm just pointing out that every person is different, I hope you don't mind :)
I get that but there's no way to prove that something isn't a placebo to others or to ourselves.
 

Solxama

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I get that but there's no way to prove that something isn't a placebo to others or to ourselves.
That's why I subscribe to the idea that every person's reaction to medication may be different, to not discard anybody's experiences. And if a lot of these experiences correlate, then we got evidence that something is definitely not just in somebody's head, and such effects then get written down, for example in the insert leaflet of a given medication.

As for me, I am not afraid to admit that some of the emotional effects are most likely placebo, as the fact that I'm doing something real about my hair loss is already making me much happier. But some effects are 100% real, for example the lower libido is very common according to the leaflet, and I can see my body hair regrowing slower with my own eyes. I am also pretty convinced that the ball ache was something to do with hormone levels adjusting, due to the reasons I specified in my last post.
 
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