Dr. Proctor- Snake-oil'n since (at least) 1987..

[Theman99x]

What do you use? Can people maintain for years using minoxidil alone??

 

[anxious1]

What is your viewpoint on lower dose= slightly lower sides??

this is the dose - response relationship. to get half the sides, u need to get half the response, which is in the middle of the steep incline, and its near impossible because that exponential rise occurrs within a few 100's of a mg.

so unless u can garantee that ur getting say for example exactly 157 ug's .i.e. .157 mg, i.e. can measure out thousandths(I dont know the exact dose to be halfway up the response curve) every time, u cant expect to reduce side effects.

wat im saying is that its an all or none reaction, theres either binding to inhibit 5a reductase or no binding. just taking .25 of a mg doesnt garantee anything. u cant reduce side effects without reducing effectiveness, and u cant take a consistantly accurate dose every time to be able to find the sweet spot in the middle of the exponential rise in the dose response curve. its a myth and a fallacy despite wat some doctors may tell u.

u can however take say .2 mg everytime and get approx 20% less effectiveness, and 20% less sides, but this is hardy worth it imo. to signicantly reduce sides (and effectiveness) u need to be halfway up that steep incline.

 

[majorsixth]

No, he does not have the right to make such claims. No one else gets away with it- Bryan is such a hypocrite on that issue as well. That ad says he did a comprehensive 3 year clinical study . He lied. And what about all the other issues brought up here? What about saying there are other ingredients in the product but not telling you what they are? Possibly even prescription ingredients.

As I mentioned earlier...Divine Skin has some combo products out there...Polaris Labs...Promox....there are actually quite a few others out there. A new thread on this is looking like a good idea. Any and all of those compainies/products- you could put Proctor's claims right next to them. Because they're just made-up.

Becareful what you say Jacob, Bryan will ring Proctor to inform him and you will become a marked man :woot:

 

[majorsixth]

What is your viewpoint on lower dose= slightly lower sides??

this is the dose - response relationship. to get half the sides, u need to get half the response, which is in the middle of the steep incline, and its near impossible because that exponential rise occurrs within a few 100's of a mg.

so unless u can garantee that ur getting say for example exactly 350 ug's (I dont know the exact dose to be halfway up the response curve) every time, u cant expect to reduce side effects.

wat im saying is that its an all or none reaction, theres either binding to inhibit 5a reductase or no binding. just taking .25 of a mg doesnt garantee anything. u cant reduce side effects without reducing effectiveness, and u cant take a consistantly accurate dose every time to be able to find the sweet spot in the middle of the exponential rise in the dose response curve. its a myth and a fallacy despite wat some doctors may tell u.

u can however take say .2 mg everytime and get approx 20% less effectiveness, and 20% less sides, but this is hardy worth it imo. to signicantly reduce sides (and effectiveness) u need to be halfway up that steep incline.

Why do people post such useless incomplete graphs?

Where are the x axis and y axis measurements?

 

[Theman99x]

What is your viewpoint on lower dose= slightly lower sides??

this is the dose - response relationship. to get half the sides, u need to get half the response, which is in the middle of the steep incline, and its near impossible because that exponential rise occurrs within a few 100's of a mg.

so unless u can garantee that ur getting say for example exactly 350 ug's (I dont know the exact dose to be halfway up the response curve) every time, u cant expect to reduce side effects.

wat im saying is that its an all or none reaction, theres either binding to inhibit 5a reductase or no binding. just taking .25 of a mg doesnt garantee anything. u cant reduce side effects without reducing effectiveness, and u cant take a consistantly accurate dose every time to be able to find the sweet spot in the middle of the exponential rise in the dose response curve. its a myth and a fallacy despite wat some doctors may tell u.

u can however take say .2 mg everytime and get approx 20% less effectiveness, and 20% less sides, but this is hardy worth it imo. to signicantly reduce sides (and effectiveness) u need to be halfway up that steep incline.

For someone that got libido sides at 1mg/day, I think id take less effectiveness for less sides. I always felt like my sides at 1 mg were almost tolerable..

Any difference between ED and EOD based on the regeneration rate of the 5- AR2 enzyme being slow.... For me I got sides after many months so I think the effect is cumulative, I am hoping that it would take far longer to feel any cumulative effects at a lower dose.

Anyone have a good way to quarter propecia?

 

[anxious1]

Why do people post such useless incomplete graphs?

Where are the x axis and y axis measurements?

its not useless, im trying to make a point and i couldnt find the finasteride dose response curve right now. im doing a degree and im busy!

 

[majorsixth]

Why do people post such useless incomplete graphs?

Where are the x axis and y axis measurements?

its not useless, im trying to make a point and i couldnt find the finasteride dose response curve right now. im doing a degree and im busy!

Lets hope the degree isn't in maths then :woot:

 

[DoctorHouse]

Jacob, there are only two proven treatments for hair loss. So any of the ones you brought up in the past don't count. All Elsom products are pure garbage. They have no back up studies either.

 

[oldmpber]

What do you use? Can people maintain for years using minoxidil alone??

Been on minoxidil for 15 years. It's not as strong as finasteride but has been buying me time for sure....

 

[Jacob]

No, he does not have the right to make such claims. No one else gets away with it- Bryan is such a hypocrite on that issue as well. That ad says he did a comprehensive 3 year clinical study . He lied. And what about all the other issues brought up here? What about saying there are other ingredients in the product but not telling you what they are? Possibly even prescription ingredients.

As I mentioned earlier...Divine Skin has some combo products out there...Polaris Labs...Promox....there are actually quite a few others out there. A new thread on this is looking like a good idea. Any and all of those compainies/products- you could put Proctor's claims right next to them. Because they're just made-up.

Becareful what you say Jacob, Bryan will ring Proctor to inform him and you will become a marked man :woot:

Yeah..I saw that post. Just another example of him not working for Proctor, I guess :shock:

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, there are only two proven treatments for hair loss. So any of the ones you brought up in the past don't count. All Elsom products are pure garbage. They have no back up studies either.

You're right..there ARE only two "proven" treatments. So just stick with minoxidil and finasteride if that's your logic. Forget Prox-N and NANO as well. :shakehead:

I don't care if the ones I brought up "don't count". I never said Elsom(or most of the other companies) had studies nor do I go around telling ppl it's the OBVIOUS thing to use and parrot false claims made by the doctor/company. Bryan has been doing that for 15+ years. With one single snake-oil'n company/product line.

Say all kinds of nonsense instead of trying to defend Proctor and his own garbage.

 

[Jacob]

What do you use? Can people maintain for years using minoxidil alone??

If you'd respond to my questions....

 

[majorsixth]

posted by: Justlovetunes

Personally i wouldn't waste my money on the stuff . Proxiphen as been around a long time. How many reviews over the years have you seen about it's efficacy? I've never seen any.

Posted by Bryan
ROTFLMAO!! How about that list of "rave reviews" that I've posted a number of times on various hairloss sites?? Those were 12 different people who wrote glowingly about Proxiphen, including Will Brink, who said that Proxiphen is "the Rolls Royce of hairloss treatments"!! Are you forgetting about all THOSE individuals?

Want me to post that list one more time, just for your edification? I'd be happy to do it; I have it right here on my computer!

Bryan's really shilling well over at HLH

 

[Bryan]

Jacob,

I think The other ingredients in prox do more than u give them credit for...

I most certainly agree with you!

What must be a tremendous source of embarrassment for Jacob is when Dr. Proctor freely admitted that when he tried putting out a version of Proxiphen without any minoxidil in it at all, there was no noticeable difference in efficacy between it and the "standard" Proxiphen!!

That clearly shows (as I've said a number of times in the past) that minoxidil is probably one of the LEAST important ingredients of Proxiphen. What are the MOST important ingredients of Proxiphen? Probably the "turbocharged" SODs: TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN.

 

[israelite]

Jacob,

I think The other ingredients in prox do more than u give them credit for...

I most certainly agree with you!

What must be a tremendous source of embarrassment for Jacob is when Dr. Proctor freely admitted that when he tried putting out a version of Proxiphen without any minoxidil in it at all, there was no noticeable difference in efficacy between it and the "standard" Proxiphen!!

That clearly shows (as I've said a number of times in the past) that minoxidil is probably one of the LEAST important ingredients of Proxiphen. What are the MOST important ingredients of Proxiphen? Probably the "turbocharged" SODs: TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN.

bryanu have stated in thr past that spironolactone was the most important ingredient

 

[Bryan]

bryanu have stated in thr past that spironolactone was the most important ingredient

I have never EVER stated that spironolactone is the most important ingredient of Proxiphen. You must be confusing me with somebody else.

 

[majorsixth]

Jacob,

I think The other ingredients in prox do more than u give them credit for...

I most certainly agree with you!

What must be a tremendous source of embarrassment for Jacob is when Dr. Proctor freely admitted that when he tried putting out a version of Proxiphen without any minoxidil in it at all, there was no noticeable difference in efficacy between it and the "standard" Proxiphen!!

That clearly shows (as I've said a number of times in the past) that minoxidil is probably one of the LEAST important ingredients of Proxiphen. What are the MOST important ingredients of Proxiphen? Probably the "turbocharged" SODs: TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN.

How can the word of a person clearly show that minoxidil is probably one of the least important ingredients?

Get real, show us the study done that made the comparison. Such a study would be evidence. Neither Proctors or your word can be taken as evidence.

 

[Bryan]

How can the word of a person clearly show that minoxidil is probably one of the least important ingredients?

Get real, show us the study done that made the comparison. Such a study would be evidence. Neither Proctors or your word can be taken as evidence.

Okay, you don't believe the word of a doctor. Do you believe the word of your mother, when she tells you that the man living in your house is really your father? :dunno:

 

[Jacob]

Jacob,

I think The other ingredients in prox do more than u give them credit for...

I most certainly agree with you!

What must be a tremendous source of embarrassment for Jacob is when Dr. Proctor freely admitted that when he tried putting out a version of Proxiphen without any minoxidil in it at all, there was no noticeable difference in efficacy between it and the "standard" Proxiphen!!

That clearly shows (as I've said a number of times in the past) that minoxidil is probably one of the LEAST important ingredients of Proxiphen. What are the MOST important ingredients of Proxiphen? Probably the "turbocharged" SODs: TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN.

OMG...how embarrassing! A snake-oil'n liar admitted that?

I think this is a good time to repost what blaze said earlier:

Can you imagine if another person or company claimed a clinical study and when they were asked for it, it was just a collection of mental notes? Bryan would sh*t bricks. There is NO WAY he would stand for that. Considering he is so pedantic about wording and language.

He even goes off for people calling finasteride/dutasteride antiandrogens or for people using the word DHT blocker. Lets use the correct terminology he cries, and he is right to an extent. So for a Doctor to claim a "clinical study" and then say it was just a collection of mental notes...hmmm. Very curious is all I will say.

Bryan would not let anyone else get away with something like that.

 

[majorsixth]

How can the word of a person clearly show that minoxidil is probably one of the least important ingredients?

Get real, show us the study done that made the comparison. Such a study would be evidence. Neither Proctors or your word can be taken as evidence.

Okay, you don't believe the word of a doctor. Do you believe the word of your mother, when she tells you that the man living in your house is really your father? :dunno:

Is this the best you can offer as evidence?

As for the word of a mother to whether the man is really the father, that's easy to settle by having a DNA test done, which is real evidence.

Show me the study done on proxiphen that made the comparison between it and propecia. I want to see this evidence that clearly shows that it's better then propecia