Dr. Proctor- Snake-oil'n since (at least) 1987..

[blaze]

wow this is disgraceful. that is just blatant false advertising.

repeatedly making claims that proxiphen is better than finasteride+minoxidil is just outlandish with _NO_ studies to back it. You cant just be like, we have to "trust" Dr Proctor. Sorry but no one else gets this sort of latitude from bryan, so why should Proctor?

Furthermore his credibility in order for us to trust him is now sorely tarnished due to this blatant false advertising.

HORSESHIT. I just finished a series of posts about those very things, over on HLH. Read what I say over there. It's currently at the top of the stack over there, and appropriately named.

do you have the 3 year clinical study on proxiphen bryan? Upload it for us to peruse.

 

[zeroes]

wow this is disgraceful. that is just blatant false advertising.

repeatedly making claims that proxiphen is better than finasteride+minoxidil is just outlandish with _NO_ studies to back it. You cant just be like, we have to "trust" Dr Proctor. Sorry but no one else gets this sort of latitude from bryan, so why should Proctor?

Furthermore his credibility in order for us to trust him is now sorely tarnished due to this blatant false advertising.

HORSESHIT. I just finished a series of posts about those very things, over on HLH. Read what I say over there. It's currently at the top of the stack over there, and appropriately named.

do you have the 3 year clinical study on proxiphen bryan? Upload it for us to peruse.

He will tell you to get it off Dr Proctor. Funny thing is we have tried to get it off him.

 

[Bryan]

do you have the 3 year clinical study on proxiphen bryan? Upload it for us to peruse.

Just read what I say about it over on HLH.

 

[Jacob]

And this is what Bryan said over at HLH...after telling us to ask Dr. Proctor for the study info, and after Dr. Proctor completely ignores the question about the comprehensive 3 year clinical study:

I think it was just a collection of mental notes that he made back 25 years ago, having to do with numerous drugs that he happened to be using and testing at the time, inside Proxiphen.

What a joke. If a comprehensive 3 year clinical study is a collection of mental notes...then any evidence that Bryan demands on/about anything can be whatever we want it to be.

 

[Bryan]

And this is what Bryan said over at HLH...after telling us to ask Dr. Proctor for the study info, and after Dr. Proctor completely ignores the question about the comprehensive 3 year clinical study: (snip bullshit)

Everybody, do what I said and READ THE THREAD OVER ON HLH, don't just listen to Jacob make one of his regular bullshit replies. To try to show you what I'm talking about, here's just ONE small post from a user over there, followed by my reply (we're talking about the "3 year study" by Dr. Proctor):

[quote:mawtd6ja]Originally posted by: zeroes
Your joking right???? Do you want the person to send him a pic with the ad? He 1. clearly dodged the question when asked the first time 2. didn't respond when asked for clarification.

How can the Dr forget about something as important as a clinical study!!?!?!

I think what Dr. Proctor referred to as a "clinical study" was far FAR looser than what YOU refer to as a "clinical study". I think it was just a collection of mental notes that he made back 25 years ago, having to do with numerous drugs that he happened to be using and testing at the time, inside Proxiphen. What you're implying is that this was a "clinical trial" just like what Merck used to test finasteride for hairloss, prior to FDA approval; in other words, a group of placebo subjects and a group of active-drug subjects; a period in the middle in which the groups were "crossed-over", etc. etc., all followed with elaborate hair counts and hair weights, and done with extreme precision!

I think your assumption is simply ridiculous. I think Dr. Proctor operates with more of a "seat-of-his-pants" type technique, adding (or removing) specific ingredients from Proxiphen, as he has a chance to see how each one does, over a period of time. For you to tell him that you want a full report of his "clinical study" that describes everything he did, everything he added or removed in exquisite detail 25 years ago, I think is absurd. If you're talking to Merck about one of their specific experimental drugs, you might get your wish; but not if you're talking to Dr. Proctor.[/quote:mawtd6ja]

 

[Jacob]

As I was saying...shill.....that is what you said after telling us to ask Dr. Proctor for the study info, and after Dr. Proctor completely ignores the question about the comprehensive 3 year clinical study. What a joke. If a comprehensive 3 year clinical study is a collection of mental notes...then any evidence that Bryan demands on/about anything can be whatever we want it to be.

Proctor lied. He lied after that. He continues to lie. See the numerous other examples given in this thread.

And btw..to the poster who makes it sound like Promox is the only other thing to compare it to...I don't think so. There are tons of other combo products out there- from Divine Skin and Polaris Labs..to many others. And it's laughable to say tha "Dr. Dr Klein doesn't seem as trustworthy overall as Proctor in terms of service" Even if just going by "service"- Proctor can't even respond to an inquiry on his made-up comprehensive three year clinical study. That's just one example. Then you have all the made-up crap that's been pointed out in this thread.

And "the jury is still out on results"?? So 15+ years and the jury is still out on results....but gosh, it's got to the best! OBVIOUSLY :shakehead:

 

[oldmpber]

Wow...a newbie...2nd post. But we can't be cynical :shakehead:

Not surprised you never tried the crap either. And nothing about all that knowledge from Proctor curing your hair loss. I apologize for being...err...cynical. But I do thank you for admitting that any "results" posted back then were no different than regular minoxidil..."Same as minoxidil I guess"..as you said.

You said: "If you were alive during that time you would know just how dire things were as far as male pattern baldness was concerned." ....All the more reason why what Proctor said and did..and what's in his ads from that time...is/are SHAMEFUL. Before/after pictures that are ridiculous for that amount of time..and talk about a comprehensive three year study that never happened. Did you notice the post above where Proctor couldn't provide any info on that study? We were told to ask him..well, he's been asked. Then and now...snake-oil'n.

"The other guy"...Bryan..did not use the crap that long. He supposedly used it for a whopping two years..then dabbled with some experimental stuff(since the Prox-N worked so great!) as well as regular Prox(that must have worked great too!) That was all over 12 years ago. Even now he doesn't even use the NANO shampoo. And these days he won't post those goofy before/afters, even though he loves to bring them up.

I was broke back then so couldn't afford anything other than polysorbate. Look that one up..and yes it did work just a tiny bit. All I am saying is Dr. P was very helpful to many of us back when information was not so free flowing. I never knew male pattern baldness could start and stop for years and he explained this one to me (it happened to me that is why I mention it). He also had patents on olcd so he is not a stupid guy by no means. I am not making any claims about his treatments pro or con, just saying he was a very helpful person to many of us on usenet.

And yes I think the other guys name was Bryan, but not 100% sure. People where giving him a hard time for having a small bald spot. But it developed over 20 years so the stuff must have done something to slow down male pattern baldness. Of course maybe it was just minoxidil because I have been on minoxidil for about 15 years and have stayed at a 2v-3v stage.

 

[Jacob]

Helpful..patents...there are tons of docs and non-docs and even actual Trichologists that are helpful and have patents. Just so you know

This thread is about how Dr. Proctor, from the beginning, lied and snake-oil'd his way into this hair loss business, as well as into these forums. And has continued to do so all these years. As has Bryan.

monty1978..didn't you know a "clinical study" is just "mental notes"? :shock:

 

[blaze]

monty1978..didn't you know a "clinical study" is just "mental notes"? :shock:

Can you imagine if another person or company claimed a clinical study and when they were asked for it, it was just a collection of mental notes? Bryan would sh*t bricks. There is NO WAY he would stand for that. Considering he is so pedantic about wording and language.

He even goes off for people calling finasteride/dutasteride antiandrogens or for people using the word DHT blocker. Lets use the correct terminology he cries, and he is right to an extent. So for a Doctor to claim a "clinical study" and then say it was just a collection of mental notes...hmmm. Very curious is all I will say.

Bryan would not let anyone else get away with something like that.

 

[Jacob]

:uglylol:

Blaze...GREAT post.

 

[Jacob]

Why doesn't Proctor advertise more? Why would he need to with Bryan in these forums for 15+ years shllin' the crap? And why doesn't he advertise like all the other companies that advertise/have advertised on these hair loss websites all these years? If he was such a decent person, why hasn't he done that? Why did he(and does he), from the beginning(see the first post in this thread) make up crap to sell his crap? Any other questions, Z?

 

[Jacob]

One other thing I don't think has been mentioned in this thread. When Dr. Lee was shut down, Dr. Proctor wasted no time in jumping in a thread devoted to that subject. Using the opportunity to sell some more of his own crap. It was soon after that that Dr. Proctor was banned from the forum- seems he wasn't supposed to be here in the first place.

 

[israelite]

jacob, when was dr proctor on the forum? why was he banned?

 

[Jacob]

He was on the forum for years. And not just this forum. People ask why he never advertised..or say he must not be a snake-oil'r because he doesn't advertise. Well..in a way he DID. For FREE. By posting in these types of forums- alt.baldspot as well. Then what do snake-oil companies like to do? Have someone else also shill the crap.

He was banned because it says when you register:

Do you Work for Someone?
The HairlossTalk Discussion Forum is a consumers-only forum. This means anyone who is associated with any product or service tied to the hair loss industry is not permitted to register or participate here. This includes consumers who may not be receiving monetary kickbacks, but are still interested in gaining exposure for a product or service in exchange for other favors from the company. Our forums are closely monitored for spam. Even well-disguised spam posts intended to look like real consumers will be identified, and deleted. Any memberships deemed by the moderators to be biased in this regard will be deleted and removed from our forums. If you are interested in legitimately sponsoring the HairlossTalk Site, please contact us via the proper means through our Contact Us page.

This was pointed out here..I think in that same Dr. Lee thread..and Proctor was banned.

Just reading that again btw...why in the world is Bryan still allowed to push the crap? For 15+ years?? Why are others getting their posts deleted or even banned for much less?

 

[Theman99x]

Why doesn't Proctor advertise more? Why would he need to with Bryan in these forums for 15+ years shllin' the crap? And why doesn't he advertise like all the other companies that advertise/have advertised on these hair loss websites all these years? If he was such a decent person, why hasn't he done that? Why did he(and does he), from the beginning(see the first post in this thread) make up crap to sell his crap? Any other questions, Z?

So you honestly believe that that Proxiphen is of no value whatsoever and it is not effective at all?

or

Is your viewpoint that Proctor's statement that Proxiphen is more effective than finasteride is bullshit?

I have talked to Dr. Proctor multiple times on the phone and he always advocates using finasteride and minoxidil based on cost. If he is a snake oil "salesman", then he is the worst of all time.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Dr Proctor recommends using Proxiphen or Prox-n when you are not responding well to Minoxidil and Propecia. He created those treatments for the non-responders. So if you are a non-responder, its worth trying. According to the Hairdx, I tested as a poor responder to Propecia. If that is the case, then Proxiphen has been saving my hair all these years.

 

[Theman99x]

House,

What treatments are you on? You believe proxiphen is working?

 

[Jacob]

Why doesn't Proctor advertise more? Why would he need to with Bryan in these forums for 15+ years shllin' the crap? And why doesn't he advertise like all the other companies that advertise/have advertised on these hair loss websites all these years? If he was such a decent person, why hasn't he done that? Why did he(and does he), from the beginning(see the first post in this thread) make up crap to sell his crap? Any other questions, Z?

So you honestly believe that that Proxiphen is of no value whatsoever and it is not effective at all?

or

Is your viewpoint that Proctor's statement that Proxiphen is more effective than finasteride is bullshit?

I have talked to Dr. Proctor multiple times on the phone and he always advocates using finasteride and minoxidil based on cost. If he is a snake oil "salesman", then he is the worst of all time.

Prox has about as much value as minoxidil..because it contains...minoxidil. My view is that Dr. Proctor is a snake-oil salesman, and that he has no evidence for any of the claims he's made, including that Prox is more effective than finasteride. What else would you call someone who puts out an ad like he did(see the original post here) with the lie that he did a comprehensive three year clinical study on his product? Or any of the other issues brought up here. It's cute that he talks people out of buying his conditioner(as another poster said..gee..save the money and buy a tiny little bottle of my expensive Prox!)..that he "advocates using finasteride and minoxidil based on cost". Oh gosh darn it Dr. Proctor..you're such a good guy..I guess I'll buy your crap anyway. Such an honest Dr. that he runs around talking about "mysterious ingredients" in the product that he won't divulge. Those ingredients are possibly even prescription ingredients. Yeah, smart idea...putting THAT on your head.


And there's DoctorHouse again. Who uses a # of other things, including an expensive LLLT helmet that someone posted about. Jumps in these threads but never responds to the points being made. Proctor created the topicals for non-responders, but never actually did any studies to see if they actually worked for "non-responders". Makes a # of outrageous claims..but has nothing to back them up with.

 

[Theman99x]

Jacob,

I think The other ingredients in prox do more than u give them credit for, I just think that because there is no merck type study, you think that he has no right to make claims. However, I think that he has a right to comment on his own success with his patients.

I am a guy that suffered low libido after about 9 months on 1mg a day. If not proxiphen what would you suggest I use to try and replace finasteride??

It took me awhile to recover from finasteride sides, therefore I'd prob only consider going back on finasteride at a small dose, .25 eod. What is your viewpoint on lower dose= slightly lower sides??

 

[Jacob]

No, he does not have the right to make such claims. No one else gets away with it- Bryan is such a hypocrite on that issue as well. That ad says he did a comprehensive 3 year clinical study . He lied. And what about all the other issues brought up here? What about saying there are other ingredients in the product but not telling you what they are? Possibly even prescription ingredients.

As I mentioned earlier...Divine Skin has some combo products out there...Polaris Labs...Promox....there are actually quite a few others out there. A new thread on this is looking like a good idea. Any and all of those compainies/products- you could put Proctor's claims right next to them. Because they're just made-up.