Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[ZenHead]

Just did my 2nd session (10 days after the first one).
Worked up to 1.75 and it hurt like a b**ch, I was in tears, dunno if I'll ever do 2mm.

Should I be worried about not seeing yet any blood spot? Scalp is red and burning, but no blood.

Looks perfect to me

 

[Bill_Russo]

Just did my 2nd session (10 days after the first one).
Worked up to 1.75 and it hurt like a b**ch, I was in tears, dunno if I'll ever do 2mm.

Should I be worried about not seeing yet any blood spot? Scalp is red and burning, but no blood.

Not necessarily. The studios aimed for mild erythema (redness), so I'd say that's fine!

 

[Arrade]

I don't feel like you need to bleed for this wounding to work tbh

 

[paul1988]

Not necessarily. The studios aimed for mild erythema (redness), so I'd say that's fine!

I actually see a few red dots here and there.
Also, I applied a mix of lemon and apple cider vinegar on my scalp 5 minutes after the session. Any thought on this?

Cheers!

 

[Tom4362]

Hey I saw your comment about why you didn't want to use minoxidil, based on the idea that the hair follicles become dependent on it. I just wanted to explain where this notion came from and why it is false. People often say Minoxidil hairs fall out when you stop, but this is only half of the truth. As you pointed out, minoxidil helps with bloodflow, but if the local scalp conditions (fibrosis, etc) are not taken care of, then the hairs will just fall out as their blood supply becomes choke and cannot be sustained without Minoxidil.

If you've ever been on the Minoxidil Beard forums, people frequently use Minoxidil to mature white micro vellus hairs in their beard to become full dark hairs, to fill in their patchy beards, and when they stop Minoxidil, those hairs never fall out. This is because that skin is able to sustain the hairs without the minoxidil. I can speak from experience here because at 22 years old, my beard had not changed at all from since when I was 16. When I did 2 cycles of Minoxidil on it, 4 months each cycle, my beard filled significantly. 3 years later, I still have all that growth, and not only that, the minoxidil thickened up other areas of my beard and made the hairs thicker in general, and so far, this has not reversed at all since stopping. The areas of my beard that minoxidil filled in are still actively growing 3 years later.

So I strongly stand by the notion that there is nothing about Minoxidil that inherently makes hairs become dependent on it. It's just that when Minoxidil grows hairs in areas of the scalp with significant fibrosis/calcification or whatever, those hairs cannot be sustained with Minoxidil if the local fibrosis issue is not taken care of.

We have transparent vellus hairs all over our body and minoxidil can mature these into full-dark hairs, and these hairs do not fall out or become small again! Considering that you have a lot of vellus hairs on your hairline regrown from microneedling, I strongly believe that a short-run of Minoxidil would help accelerate the development of those hairs into mature hairs, without making them become dependent on it.


Just note - if Minoxidil does regrow hairs in areas where the calcification and such is not fully taken care of, the scalp will not be able to sustain those on its own prior to stopping... however, considering you've been needling for a while, Minoxidil may be exactly what you need. It's a major growth stimulant for hair, and as long as the scalp conditions are taken care of, those hairs will be kept.

In any case, keep up the good work!

What do you guys think of this?

 

[Bill_Russo]

What do you guys think of this?

That is very interesting indeed. And if we take the fibrosis theory into consideration, it does make sense. It'd explain Kitedude and 2young's cases where they started with Minoxidil, then dropped it and maintained their gains through rolling (which prevents fibrosis).
One way to really know for sure though...

 

[ToLGuy]

Honestly, I can't think of one and that's some food for thought. Wonder if it really means something.

Gonna get some some 2mm rollers as soon as possible. Nevertheless, I will wait to use them after my 3 month mark. At that time, I will assess the state of my hair with pics (100% dermapen til then).

 

[Arrade]

I actually see a few red dots here and there.
Also, I applied a mix of lemon and apple cider vinegar on my scalp 5 minutes after the session. Any thought on this?

Cheers!

Well there's one guy who claimed he got much faster regrowth when he soaked his head in apple cider vinegar for 5 minutes, before his daily scalp massage. He soaked it every other day and left it in his hair overnight, claimed he had much less sebum and itch

 

[Bill_Russo]

Gonna get some some 2mm rollers as soon as possible. Nevertheless, I will wait to use them after my 3 month mark. At that time, I will assess the state of my hair with pics (100% dermapen til then).

It'd be interesting to see if you really see a noticeable difference. I myself will stay true to the way of Linlin Bao.

 

[ToLGuy]

@Arrade you have been a DHT skeptic and a strong supporter of the idea that male pattern baldness is mostly a calcification, fibrosis and lack of blood flow issue, rather than sensitivity to androgens. If I remember correctly, you also avoid minoxidil. As such, I'd like to know if you are needling. You barely say something about your regimen. Are you wounding your scalp like us? Would you share your experience please?

 

[Arrade]

That is very interesting indeed. And if we take the fibrosis theory into consideration, it does make sense. It'd explain Kitedude and 2young's cases where they started with Monoxidil, then dropped it and maintained their gains through rolling (which prevents fibrosis).
One way to really know for sure though...

Minoxidil lowers collagen production, which fibrosis is collagen bundles.So perhaps it in someway helped "erode" the fibrosis, on top of the needling

 

[paul1988]

Well there's one guy who claimed he got much faster regrowth when he soaked his head in apple cider vinegar for 5 minutes, before his daily scalp massage. He soaked it every other day and left it in his hair overnight, claimed he had much less sebum and itch

Yeah I've read about its benefits. Just not sure if it's safe applying it on my teared scalp

 

[Arrade]

@Arrade you have been a DHT skeptic and a strong supporter of the idea that male pattern baldness is mostly a calcification, fibrosis and lack of blood flow issue, rather than sensitivity to androgens. If I remember correctly, you also avoid minoxidil. As such, I'd like to know if you are needling. You barely say something about your regimen. Are you wounding your scalp like us? Would you share your experience please?

Right now my estrogen is too low which is causing me inflammation in the scalp. Basically without hormone balance nothing will help me with my hair.

Soon I think I will use a dermastamp or pen to do needling maybe every 1-2 weeks. I do think it could work, it's surprising how effective it seems to be.
Thanks for asking

 

[Arrade]

One way needling may be effective is that by increasing local blood flow at the wounds, it could increase the concentration of plasmin.
"Plasmin is an important enzyme present in blood that degrades many blood plasma proteins, including fibrin clots. The degradation of fibrin is termed fibrinolysis. In humans, the plasmin protein is encoded by the PLG gene"

I'll also take daily nattokinase since it increases plasmin effects by 400%
https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/nattokinase/

Basically needling increases the bodies ability to remove fibrosis, which we already knew

 

[Arrade]

Yeah I've read about its benefits. Just not sure if it's safe applying it on my teared scalp

I would wait until your scalp is healed. I guess 2 days after, give or take. It's said not to use anything topically the day of wounding

 

[sportsguy97]

I don't know why, but I am really starting to doubt more and more about the efficacy of a dermapen for wounding our scalps compared to the roller. Is there any UNAMBIGUOUS success case of regrowth so far of some dude wounding with a pen? With unambiguous, I mean the folliwing:

1) someone who DID NOT start minoxidil at the same time as needling
2) someone who has Only used a pen to wound. People who used rollers first and then switched to a pen doesn't count. This is the case of numberman, who might have attributed its initial regrowth spurt to the roller.
3) Someone with DEFINITE evidence of regrowth, as in visual assessment with equal hairlength and stuff. Stuff like "my hair feels great" or "my hair feels more alive" means nothing in terms of results.

Anyone falls into that category? I think my pen is really weak to penetrante my scalp, and that there is no better substitute than my own strength and pressure to ensure that the needles effectively penetrate, even though it might be more painful.

Any opinions on this?

I have definite regrowth and have only used the pen and was on minoxidil 7 years prior to starting. Its 100% thicker no doubt about it. I don't feel comfortable posting pics yet because i really don't like posting pics on the internet. Eventually i will in the name of helping people. But not now.

I think both are effective. I did the original trial with the roller back in the day for like 2-3 weeks. However i always thought subconsciously i wasn't pressing hard because of the pain. The pen takes care of that for me. Also with the pen you can go over as much as you want just like the roller. My 3rd session i overdid it i thought. Alot of blood spots cause i did like 8-10 passes over each area. Although an occasional heavier session maybe isn't a bad thing considering what 2young used to do.

That is very interesting indeed. And if we take the fibrosis theory into consideration, it does make sense. It'd explain Kitedude and 2young's cases where they started with Minoxidil, then dropped it and maintained their gains through rolling (which prevents fibrosis).
One way to really know for sure though...

Agreed. It makes sense. Literally those guys and a couple others maintained through just rolling afterward. So can we use minoxidil plus roller and then just keep rolling? I think at the very least to maintain we'd only have to roll 1-2 times a month to prevent fibrosis. Whether we can drop minoxidil after a short time remains to be seen.

It'd be interesting if a younger guy who was at the very beginning stage of thinning would try just needling on its own. See if they could maintain everything and regrow slightly.

 

[Bill_Russo]

Agreed. It makes sense. Literally those guys and a couple others maintained through just rolling afterward. So can we use minoxidil plus roller and then just keep rolling? I think at the very least to maintain we'd only have to roll 1-2 times a month to prevent fibrosis. Whether we can drop minoxidil after a short time remains to be seen.

It'd be interesting if a younger guy who was at the very beginning stage of thinning would try just needling on its own. See if they could maintain everything and regrow slightly.

1 time a month is enough for sure. I mean, Chinese study used the bi-monthly approach and it got regrowth. Minoxidil is another story. Hopefully some brave souls are willing to try it.

It remains to be seen what it does to mine. It's seriously pathetic.
In 6 years, about to be 7, worst thing it did to my hair was temple recession. Not even that severe. NW3.
It started to affect the crown recently, about 2-3 years ago. But nothing major either. Mostly thinning.
We'll see.
Honestly, knowing this was already out there around the time my hair loss started is a gut punch. All this time forums made me believe my only options were either Finasteride, Minoxidil or waiting for something better. Turns out I could've potentially avoided all this with a f*****g roller back in 2013. Son of a f***.

 

[sportsguy97]

1 time a month is enough for sure. I mean, Chinese study used the bi-monthly approach and it got regrowth. Minoxidil is another story. Hopefully some brave souls are willing to try it.

It remains to be seen what it does to mine. It's seriously pathetic
In 6 years, about to be 7, worse thing it did to my hair was temple recession. Not even that severe. NW3.
It started to affect the crown recently, about 2-3 years ago. But nothing major either. Mostly thinning.
We'll see.
Honestly, knowing this was already out there around the time my hair loss started is a gut punch. All this time forums made me believe my only options were either Finasteride, Minoxidil or waiting for something better. Turns out I could've potentially avoided all this with a f*****g roller back in 2013. Son of a f***.

Lol agreed.

As for dropping minoxidil. I’m not sure I’d ever drop it as I tolerate it well.... and I’m so used to using it at this point that it doesn’t bother me at all. Still maybe I’d try out using it less frequently.

I do wonder if the thought process applies to other topicals and yes even finasteride. Get regrowth.... stop other treatments and keep rolling to maintain.

Again what we could also use is someone who sees the first small signs of hair loss to start needling on its own. See if it maintains. Your right however.....every time I see someone like this posting on reddit the automatic response is “big 3” rolling is now being thrown in but never suggested on its own.

 

[Scootz]

I just started up Finasteride & Minoxidil a little over a month ago. I was previously on Finasteride for about a year and a half and responded pretty well. Then I moved and neglected to find a new dermatologist so I went without Finasteride for about 6 months and lost some ground. My crown is by far the thinnest, but my hairline has no doubt receded back as well. Not so much the temples in particular, but the whole hairline. I recently got a Dr. Pen and have done two 2mm microneedling sessions, same procedure as noted in the video. I don't think theres anyway the combination of different treatments could be working this fast, but it looks like I have little hairs sprouting up just below my hairline. I used to pulled my hair back to check my hairline all the time, but this is the first time I've really noticed little hairs like this sprout up. It might be hard to tell from the picture, but it definitely looks like this combo might already be working.

 

[ToLGuy]

The entire Chinese study.

Touché