The Cb (breezula [clascoterone]) Community Thread | Page 63 | HairLossTalk Forums

The Cb (breezula [clascoterone]) Community Thread

Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by Screeech, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Jim lahey

    Jim lahey Established Member My Regimen

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    Upregulation happens with pretty much all antagonist drugs and it's not an infinite function, it won't just keep going up and up and up actually in alot of cases it goes down slightly after some time on the drug after your body finds a more sustainable balance. Your body really has a hard time trying to fight with these powerful pharmaceutical drugs and they generally beat the bodies response, if that wasn't the case we wouldn't have so many drugs available in general.
     
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  2. petersonKj

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    exactly if this was happening anti androgens for example for prostate cancer therapy would be completely useless
     
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  3. Jim lahey

    Jim lahey Established Member My Regimen

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    Some drugs do however lose efficacy over time but that is from a variable of reasons
     
  4. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Cassiopea removed that presentation from their website, and replaced it with the one comparing hair count to baseline at 6 months then comparing to vehicle at 12 months. That's a highly deceptive practice.
     
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  5. petersonKj

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    obviously but they know they or better their product has fucked up. Jesus Christ all most people here need is a maintenance therapy in 2022 or 2023 and we can't even have that. if you told that to the people back in 2000 they wouldn't have believed it. they thought wed have a cure in 2008, its like a big piece of satire here
     
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  6. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Finasteride and dutasteride do not block the AR, so why would it happen with them? Testosterone, and smaller amounts of DHT, are still attaching to the AR and activating it. AR upregulation is known to occur in prostate cancer cells. They use drugs for prostate cancer that are almost insurmountable. They outcompete DHT for the receptor, and are able to overcome AR upregulation. Then you have mutant AR to deal with, and that's another issue. Why is it so far-fetched to think upregulation might happen in the scalp when we know it happens in prostate cancer cells? It's not the same thing and I'm not saying it happens, but what other explanation is there for these results from Cassiopea? The rigor participation argument doesn't hold water, unless you believe people who sign up for minoxidil trials are more rigorous.
     
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  7. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    We have a maintenance therapy now. Finasteride is the best you're ever going to get for maintenance. Asking for something effective without potential for side effects is a pipe dream. Like @Jim lahey said it can only upregulate so much, so maybe if you go up to 15% after 6 months that would be enough to maintain. Who knows.
     
  8. petersonKj

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    ehh because one can expect this up regulation to also happen when there is simply less dht available? the reason it is far fetched is that actual AR like flutamide for example, they work as well right? why do they work when they are receptor antagonists? I dont know and I think neither do they or anyone who posts here. this is something that you'd have to ask someone who is studying this sh*t
     
  9. petersonKj

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    a pipe dream? as if it is too much to ask for to have a maintenance drug for male pattern baldness 30 years after finasteride has hit the market, as if it is too much to ask for to have a drug that does not have potential wide ranging systemic side effects and does not reduce dht in every tissue of the body? is that too much to ask for? for other diseases new drugs are coming out constantly, every f*****g year and for this crap its always just talk, big mouth talk but never anything to back it up, all the crap from 2008 and nothing worked. and why exactly is it a pipe dream? you may not understand this but they actually did have a regrowth and maintenance stem cells therapy back in 2008 but it failed due to underfunding and not meeting the goal of cloning hair. that's it. it was f*****g there. so dont tell me how maintenance without finasteride is a dream when there are literally multiple potential approaches to how one could do that and many have been explored
     
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  10. byebyehair

    byebyehair Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Dude I clearly said that i got the thing with different comparisons... Read my comment more carefully.
    The source from the other thread (https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-2-twelve-months-results-for-breezula.122003/) says 14.3 hair after 12 month compared to vehicle in the BID 7.5%

    The source @pegasus2 shared says 4.3 hair above baseline. And vehicle decrease 9.7 compared to baseline. That makes 14.0 hair in this group compared to vehicle. This is the error i pointed out. And I think it is very strange that this error occured, because i would guess they use at least an excel Tool to calculate this stuff and dont calculate by hand. Seeing such an error makes me wonder what kind of analysts they hire. (I m a data analyst myself) I also found numerous graphs in the sasumed phase 2 Trial results that disagree with other graphs in the same study. I would like to get the raw data from both the trials to make an analysis myself. (when i have time i will point out the disagreeing points in the sasued study)

    @pegasus2 are u able to also share the TAHW value against baseline? Thanks
     
  11. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    I don't have that, sorry.

    A lot of their numbers are off in the same presentation. I don't know why.
     
  12. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Every drug has side effects, even aspirin. Asking for a drug that only has one very specific action in the body, when every pathway in the body is involved in multiple processes is asking a lot. As you mentioned our only hope for that is cell therapy and gene editing. Cell therapy is the only one that might happen anytime soon. Breezula is actually a minor miracle in the way it works even if it's not very effective long-term.
     
  13. petersonKj

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    It's not a miracle lol. This is just blablabka there is no fundamental law of nature that drugs need to have systemic side effects. Sure something like dizziness and skin irritation but not depression and sexual dysfunction, that is unacceptable
     
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  14. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Side effects from finasteride are comparatively minor, otherwise it would not have been approved for a cosmetic condition. Why don't you get into the pharmaceutical industry and start developing drugs if you think it's so easy? The human body is infinitely more complex than any piece of engineering you've ever touched.
     
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  15. petersonKj

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    I know that. My point is we were so close in 2008 with alderan actually being able to maintain hair and get some regrowth but it was scrapped
     
  16. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    That wasn't a drug. Cellular therapy can do amazing things without side effects. The problem there is regulations and lack of investment. Lack of investment would be solved by relaxing regulations.
     
  17. petersonKj

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    But we don't want to relax regulations because nobody benefits from a replicel that gives you a tumor for example. And I'm not talking about drugs, I'm talking about treatments and this includes all kinds of treatments
     
  18. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Speak for yourself. I'm not saying we shouldn't have any regulations, but an approach like Japan's is a lot smarter. If America would follow that approach it would bring about a revolution in medicine.
     
  19. petersonKj

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    The problem is that men have been shamed for decades about doing something to improve their looks. Thus very few balding men actually knew that something can be done about it. It's mind boggling how many guys say hairloss sucks but they don't know what finasteride is. This gives the impression of a lack of demand. Then there is no insentive to create a new product because they don't see the profit margin as very appealing. If hair loss was a big crisis among men and more young men would go bald in particular this sh*t would boom. Just like it is happening now with the hair transplant industry especially in turkey. Soon these young men will realize tho that getting a transplant at a young age is merely a short term fix. Many don't even want to go on finasteride. But in general I'd say that a lack of demand is definitely still there, only few men would have interest paying tens of thousands of dollars for a cell therapy that yields comparable results to a transplant. If something happens it will be over other research interest from organ cloning technologies as a whole for example and that then drives the hair industry. But it won't drive itself
     
  20. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    You're too focused on what affects you personally. The only medical research that gets adequate funding is cancer and covid-19 research. You think hair loss research is the only avenue that's neglected because that's what you're focused on.
     
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