My theory for Male Pattern Baldness, care to poke some holes | Page 5 | HairLossTalk Forums

My theory for Male Pattern Baldness, care to poke some holes

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by frailstar, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    Like we said before, you're using the word "dairy" as a NOUN. If you had said "And also explains why the Chinese who don't eat a lot of dairy products have hair", it would have been acceptable.
     
  2. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    Big woop, I didn't feel like typing out the word product. You know what was implied.
     
  3. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    Maybe related, maybe not. I was just thinking about what my Dr. told me (very condescendingly) about my high cholesterol and high blood pressure 4 years ago. I was told I needed to take cholesterol and blood pressure lowering pills. I refused, took matters into my own hands. My cholesterol levels are outstanding. My blood pressure is that of a child's. Now when I see Mr. Doctor Doctor I say to him (very condescendingly), "Still think there's nothing to this crazy diet and exercise thing?"

    Now I know that male pattern baldness and the threat of heart disease are completely different things. But when you have someone who you think has your best interest at heart tell you to take your pills and don't worry with anything else. And you prove yourself right with your own idea about how to do things. It does give you cause to pause. Not that I'm saying my male pattern baldness theory is right. It's an idea. A theory. If you want to call my theory grandiose, ok. But when you live in a world where your doctor is trying to shovel pills down your throat and misinform you about what truly can be done through diet and exercise, you kind of question everything around you. Because if you can't trust the people who are suppose to help you, I don't know who you can trust. So you will excuse me if I'm not bowled over by some of your rejections of my idea.

    And if I sound a little angry, well yeah, I'm a little angry.
     
  4. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    I agree with most everybody else here: I think diet _does_ influence male pattern baldness to some extent, but it's a very minor part of the equation. My wild guess is that at most, maybe it's 5% or so of the story! :)

    BTW, what happened to the newer poster's comment about that use of the word "dairy"?? I was going to reply to what HE said, but now it's gone! :freaked:
     
  5. beaner

    beaner Senior Member

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    I deleted it to rewrite it and then realized that I really didn't care.

    Anyway, I'm curious as to what your response was. I really don't understand your problem with the way he used the word dairy. You keep stressing he was using it as a NOUN and the definition I posted indicated that one use of the word dairy was as a noun meaning "dairy products collectively". It seems to me that the context in which he used the word...The chinese don't eat alot of dairy....(meaning dairy products collectively...plural) makes perfect sense and I don't understand what the issue was with it. I've heard it used that way before which is what prompted me to look up the definition.

    Am I totally missing something?
     
  6. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    So, you're blaming your doctor for trying to help you, because of something that you did to your own body? Not only did you do that, but you disillusioned your own self by proving that when it comes to your own health, you're not quite as lazy and stupid as you originally thought.

    If I was in your presence right now, I'd not only pat you on the back, but I'd clap really loud and give a nice big sarcastic smile.

    :roll:

    I see ten people just like you at the hospital everyday. You'll be back.
     
  7. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    No, I don't blame my doctor for what I did to myself. I wasn't stupid. I knew I had done this to myself. The problem I had with my doctor is trying to talk me into taking pills and dismissing the importance of diet and exercise. Had I been "lazy and stupid" and listened to my doctor, I would have swallowed my pills and kept right on with my western lifestyle. Unfortunately this is what a lot of people do. They refuse to believe what they are eating is killing them.

    What do you mean you see 10 people just like me everyday? You mean you see 10 people everyday at your hospital who are vegan, exercise regularly and have lowered their cholesterol and blood pressure? Good for them, f*****g, good for them! What do you mean I'll be back? You think I'm kidding myself? Proof is in the pudding.


    If I was in your presence right now, I'd not only pat you on the back, but I'd clap really loud and give a nice big sarcastic smile.


    I don't doubt that one bit. Unfortunately almost 90 % of the doctors out there are just like you. It's why we have a health crisis in this country. Too much emphasis on medications and not enough on prevention through diet and exercise. And just look at the statistics on obesity, heart disease, cancer in the US and you will see how that's working out. Not too well.
     
  8. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    Oh this is like that scene in Romy and Michele's High School Reunion when Lisa Luder breaks from the popular crowd and defends Romy and Michele from those popular b****s. lol Hot.
     
  9. retropunk

    retropunk Established Member

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    I'm curious. How many times did your doctor discuss your weight, blood pressure, and/or cholesterol? Did you also get diagnosed with atherosclerosis? Any other heart disease/problem? I have a feeling you're leaving a lot out. I would say that 99% doctors would give their patients a chance to lower their cholesterol and/or blood pressure.

    As for prevention through diet and exercise, I have yet to see any prevention for hereditary emphysema, bone cancer, leukemia, and lymphoma through lifestyle change.

    Obesity and heart disease have a better chance. Lung cancer is probably a pretty good chance, too. If you have a family history of cancers, you may be able to lower your chances of getting cancer by using a good diet and exercising, but this is hardly prevention.
     
  10. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    Father died of heart disease at 54. Mother has high blood pressure and wonky cholesterol levels. Dad loved steak with a tall glass of milk every other meal, didn't exercise, puffed away on a pipe every minute of the day. Mom doesn't like vegetables (they hurt her stomach ha), doesn't exercise, likes BBQ sandwiches, processed foods.

    The thing that sparked me going to the doctor was a mitral valve problem that did not show itself until I hit my 30s. Wound up in the ER one new years day freaked out thinking I was having a heart attack. They ran test, wasn't. After that scheduled test to make sure it was mitral valve. No blockage, MVP confirmed. Cholesterol not so good and blood pressure somewhat high. Family history, not good. Prior to this had exercised every day for 10 years (started at age 19) Extremely overweight and tired all the time. Diet had turned to crap in the last few years. So started eating less at first and adding more fruits and vegetables, something I didn't eat enough of. Got some results. But struggled with being fat for 3 years, having a hard time really getting anywhere with my weight. Not until I read the China Study did I learn what I was doing to my body with the cheese on pizza and milk products I consumed from chocolate. In DEC 2006 my cholesterol was better and blood pressure 125 over 75, waist was 36, couldn't quite lose that roll around my middle, still felt tired. Started slow creep into vegan diet in JAN of this year, now have 30 inch waist, amazing cholesterol levels, blood pressure 100 over 56, dot dot dot. This is a long story, sorry. Now I'm sorry I said anything. lol Diet was discussed but not emphasized, I was given this print out of like bullshit basically. It's like a typical western diet but eat less of it. Or that's the way I see it now after reading The China Study.

    It's not that uncommon actually for your doctor to say very little about diet or to even poopoo it altogether. My Mom's doctor gave her the same diet print out after her mini stroke in 2004 and gave her medicines immediately. They didn't discuss the diet at all she tells me. Not that it would have done any good, she doesn't want to hear it. I could imagine it would be tough for doctors because most patients don't want to be told to change what they eat.
     
  11. retropunk

    retropunk Established Member

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    It seems pretty obvious to me that your doctor thought you were in danger of a heart attack, stroke or something else, so he had your future health in perspective given your current health and your family history.
     
  12. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    With his dietary history, family history, and obvious history of high blood pressure, it is actually medical negligence not to start him on a blood pressure lowering medication. If his cholesterol was constantly elevated, then it would also be medically wrong to not start him on a statin.

    I'm quite sure that his physician discussed his diet with him. It may have been subtle. Most physicians will say "Cut the fat and lose the salt." Because, if the patients don't do so, then cholesterol medications and diuretics are worthless for the most part.

    A person gets three chances to change. Three high blood pressure readings of over 140/90 and people in the medical community just assume that you're not taking care of yourself. Our opinion is validated by studies that demonstrate that those same people who refuse to take medications for their blood pressure/cholesterol and take the natural route will not live as long as those that do. A blood pressure that high for extended periods of time is clinically dangerous and should be aggressively treated. The body resets it physiological setpoints with regards to blood pressure when it's that high for that long, so that's why doctors prescribe medications initially...no matter what the initial dietary intervention might be by the patient.

    You can take natural supplements like Garlic for your cholesterol or other compounds that act like duretics, but if you don't inhibit cholesterol synthesis and take the workload off your heart for an extended period of time, then you will increase your chances of death tremendously. Many, many people walk around with normal cholesterol and blood pressure levels and yet they still have atherosclerotic disease.


    For the majority of people with insulin resistance, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol the answer is actually dropping 30-50 pounds, eating less fat and salt, and exercising. Unfortunately, the number of people willing to do that is far less than it should be.
     
  13. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    I understand that more than half of those who have a heart attack have normal cholesterol levels. Know all about this.

    I also understand that On the American Heart Association diet, which includes meat and dairy, patients' arteries continue to clog, while Dr. Dean Ornish's vegan diet unclogs arteries. In one study, AHA dieters experienced a 28 percent average worsening of clogged arteries, while dieters on Ornish's program experienced an 8 percent improvement in their arteries. Why aren't heart doctors handing out vegan diet plans to their patients already? I have an idea, like it might be thrown back at them . lol However, it should be explained to them very clearly that you have 2 choices, you can get worse and go on the AHA diet or you can completely reverse your heart disease and go on a vegan diet. This didn't happen with me and I don't you will find one patient who has been told this by their heart doctor.

    I agree, doctors are finally starting to realize that diet is very important in preventing and even reversing heart disease. But they aren't going far enough. Same realization with heart disease is finally moving into cancer prevention and reversal. Dairy and meat (diet) cause many other diseases, no just heart disease and cancer. MS and other autoimmune diseases, Type 1 diabetes (caused from drinking cow's milk as infants) and arthritis are some others.

    We have hospitals with their own McDonald's or Hardees attached. This isn't preventative medicine, this is a joke. The meals served to patients, which should be the MOST important part of the healing process are horrible junk. The medical industry has to focus more on diet, it's as simple as that.
     
  14. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    You have a study that demonstrates that a vegan diet reverses atherosclerosis histologically more than a balanced diet recommended by the AHA? I'd be very interested to read this study, because I doubt that it's peer reviewed and funded by the NIH.

    The main reason that physicians don't prescribe vegan diets to patients is that the vast majority of people are very, very incapable of maintaining a balanced vegan diet as the foods that are required either don't taste good to patients or a large amounts of supplements are needed to maintain homeostasis. I can't even count on all my fingers and toes the number of times I've seen people with vegan diets that are iron deficient and B12 deficient with incredible high blood sugars, because of all the pasta they end up eating. Recommendations from some unknown person that you love is one thing, but the real world with real patients is quite another.

    The hospital that I work at has a daily salad bar, plus the option of numerous healthy sandwiches (soy-based if you wish) and lowfat yogurts. I don't know where you get healthcare from, but I think that you have seriously missed out on decent medical care. Every hospital that I've ever been at in the midwest offers vegan meals and healthy alternatives. So, your blanket statements pretty much just add to your ignorance when it comes to the overall direction and ideals of the medical community.


    By the way, type I diabetes is NOT caused by drinking milk. It is in fact an autoimmune disorder most likely due to a viral infection as a child or young adult. Two of the most common viruses are the coxsackie virus (a common cold virus) and the Epstein-Barr virus (the virus that causes mononucleosis). You continue to amaze me and not in a good way.
     
  15. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    lol So naive. First of all here is, in simple terms, how Type 1 diabetes works.

    - A baby is not nursed long enough and is fed cow's milk protein, perhaps in an infant formula.

    - The milk reaches the small intestine, where it is digested down to it's amino acid parts.

    - For some infants, cow's milk is not fully digested, and small amino acid chains or fragments of the original protein remain in the intestine.

    - These incompletely digested protein fragments may be absorbed into the blood.

    - The immune system recognizes these fragments as foreign invaders and goes about destroying them.

    - Unfortunately, some of the fragments look exactly the same as the cells of the pancreas that are responsible for making insulin.

    - The immune system loses it's ability to distinguish between the cow's milk protein fragments and the pancreatic cells, and destroys them both, thereby eliminating the child's ability to produce insulin.

    - The infant becomes a Type 1 diabetic, and remains so for the rest of his or her life.

    The process boils down to a truly remarkable statement: cow's milk may cause one of the most devastating diseases that can befall a child. I'll let that sink in for a while and beg you in the mean time to pick up a copy of The China Study and educate yourself on diet and disease. What's it going to hurt? Read it and then tell me why this guy Colin Campbell is the biggest jackass in the world. You won't, because you're afraid that you're wrong and you can't have that.

    And as for the vegan diet being dangerous and the bullshit about me not getting enough iron and crap, NOT TRUE. This is a big ol' myth. The only nutrient vegans may lack is B12 and that can be taken in pill form from a vegan source. I can also get it from nutritional yeast. Please stop telling people things that aren't true. In fact the opposite is true. I don't even take a daily vitamin and I am fine, better than fine in fact. I would be more worried about our non-vegan friends, as you will soon find out...

    I'm about to scan in and post a nutritional breakdown of a vegan meal compared to a non-vegan meal. It clearly shows who's really lacking in vitamins. lol I can't believe some of the things people still think. It still amazes me.
     
  16. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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  17. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    Wow, you really have no idea how Type I Diabetes works. I have at least 5-10 studies right in front of me that demonstrate that the vast majority of patients with type I diabetes have had recent viral infection from coxsackie, echovirus, or epstein-barr viruses. In fact, studies have shown that viral infection of beta-cells within the pancreas induces type I diabetes. The viruses often contain genetic sequences that are very similar to genetic sequences within the beta-cells. Thus, you end up with an autoimmune disorder as the body can't tell the difference between viral code and human genetic code.


    The most common progression of type I diabetes includes viral infection, cold/flu like symptoms, excessive thirst and urination, and finally a diagnosis of diabetes. There are a whole list of diabetogenic viruses that are accepted by the medical community as being highly infectious to the pancreatic islets.

    Northern European ancestory and having the HLA subtypes HLA-DR3, DR4, and DQ are the factors that lead to the greatest chance of viral infection leading to an autoimmune disorder.

    It isn't the milk. Not even close.
     
  18. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    In response to if I have a study that demonstrates that a vegan diet reverses atherosclerosis histologically more than a balanced diet recommended by the AHA. That's what the entire China Study has proven and describes in the book. Again, a must read. It has photos of the actual arteries unclogged. See for yourself.
     
  19. frailstar

    frailstar Established Member

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    That's one thought on it, that imo is wrong. Meanwhile Type 1 diabetes continues to grow in this country. Start reading on page 187 in The China Study and then tell me I'm wrong. Or at least debate why the book is wrong. Let's have a discussion about it, I'd like to know a different view on this books, knock it off it's pedestal.
     
  20. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    I have to chuckle when you put stuff like this up. During the processing of the majority of the foods that vegans eat, the majority of the vitamins and minerals are lost, so the foods are fortified.

    If vegan diets are so healthy, then why do children that breastfeed from vegan women end up suffering from vitamin deficiency?

    The vegan diet is definitely healthier in terms of cutting fats and losing weight, but it's incredibly flawed in terms of what you're missing. B12, Carnitine, CoQ10, and creatine are all missing. Many become vitamin deficient, because the lack of fat in the diet prevents vitamin A,D,E, and K absorption. Taking a supplement will not raise the levels of these vitamins in the body without proper fat intake as they are fat soluble.

    Vegan diets in newborns delays and disrupts the development of the brain and sex organs. The vegan diet is typically high in soy. Soy is incredibly toxic at the doses that most vegans take. Between the large amounts of phytoestrogens and the toxic effects on the thyroid, soy as a protein source is quite flawed.

    Protein from meat is highly accessible to the human body.
     

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