My theory for Male Pattern Baldness, care to poke some holes

powersam

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Re: My theory for Male Pattern Baldness, care to poke some h

wookster said:
frailstar said:
Ok this is my theory of why men get male pattern baldness. I believe that male pattern baldness is DIET related. Get your chuckles out now boys.

I believe that the reason that Asia has the lowest rate of male pattern baldness is because they don't consume dairy and also consume a vegetable rich diet. Countries with the highest rate of prostate cancer, heart disease and male pattern baldness consume the most dairy. Why is dairy the cause of male pattern baldness? It raises IGF-1. High IGF-1 causes prostate cancer too, as we all know. There are some who might argue that their are slick bald vegans in the US and EU, true, but I can explain that too. The reason that vegans in the west have male pattern baldness too, and some might argue accelerated male pattern baldness is because their IGF-1 levels are high too. They consume a huge amount of soy isolate products (those prepackaged soy burgers?) It's recently been discovered that soy isolate protein is WORSE than dairy in raising IGF-1 levels. Anyone care to poke holes in my theory? I'd to love to tango with you.


http://www.keratin.com/ac/baldnessbiolo ... loss.shtml


Can high insulin levels cause hair loss

It is well known that women who have high levels of insulin from the disease polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) are most likely to develop androgenetic alopecia. A study from Harvard School of Public Health showed that men who have the highest blood levels of insulin like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) are more likely to suffer male pattern baldness.

From this research some individuals have concluded that high blood levels of insulin and its growth factors may cause male pattern baldness in men and women. They suggest that pattern baldness may be caused by high levels of insulin produced by eating large amounts of sugary and floured foods such as bakery products and pastas. They believe male pattern baldness can be prevented by avoiding flour and sugar, eating fruits only with meals, and taking alternative treatments such as Glucophage, Actos, and Avandia that they claim lower insulin levels.

It is correct that high levels of insulin are found in men and women with hair loss. However, this is a consequence of androgen hormone activity that occurs in PCOS and pattern baldness and is unlikely to be the fundamental cause of hair loss. There is a complex interaction between androgen hormones, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), and insulin levels. When SHBG levels go down, insulin levels go up as a consequence.

If it was true that insulin directly caused pattern baldness then people with the autoimmune type I form of insulin dependent diabetes, where insulin production is significantly reduced, would be expected to be more resistant to development of pattern baldness and/or to have more limited hair loss.

However, there is no evidence to show that diabetics have reduced levels of pattern alopecia.


Insulin may have an affect on pattern alopecia, but the weight of evidence indicates that it is only a potential influence when other factors such as steroids and SHBG are involved.



that ignores the fact that high and low insulin levels cause the same thing, high glucose levels.
 

tomas99

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Re: My theory for Male Pattern Baldness, care to poke some h

powersam said:
wookster said:
frailstar said:
Ok this is my theory of why men get male pattern baldness. I believe that male pattern baldness is DIET related. Get your chuckles out now boys.

I believe that the reason that Asia has the lowest rate of male pattern baldness is because they don't consume dairy and also consume a vegetable rich diet. Countries with the highest rate of prostate cancer, heart disease and male pattern baldness consume the most dairy. Why is dairy the cause of male pattern baldness? It raises IGF-1. High IGF-1 causes prostate cancer too, as we all know. There are some who might argue that their are slick bald vegans in the US and EU, true, but I can explain that too. The reason that vegans in the west have male pattern baldness too, and some might argue accelerated male pattern baldness is because their IGF-1 levels are high too. They consume a huge amount of soy isolate products (those prepackaged soy burgers?) It's recently been discovered that soy isolate protein is WORSE than dairy in raising IGF-1 levels. Anyone care to poke holes in my theory? I'd to love to tango with you.


http://www.keratin.com/ac/baldnessbiolo ... loss.shtml


Can high insulin levels cause hair loss

It is well known that women who have high levels of insulin from the disease polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) are most likely to develop androgenetic alopecia. A study from Harvard School of Public Health showed that men who have the highest blood levels of insulin like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) are more likely to suffer male pattern baldness.

From this research some individuals have concluded that high blood levels of insulin and its growth factors may cause male pattern baldness in men and women. They suggest that pattern baldness may be caused by high levels of insulin produced by eating large amounts of sugary and floured foods such as bakery products and pastas. They believe male pattern baldness can be prevented by avoiding flour and sugar, eating fruits only with meals, and taking alternative treatments such as Glucophage, Actos, and Avandia that they claim lower insulin levels.

It is correct that high levels of insulin are found in men and women with hair loss. However, this is a consequence of androgen hormone activity that occurs in PCOS and pattern baldness and is unlikely to be the fundamental cause of hair loss. There is a complex interaction between androgen hormones, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), and insulin levels. When SHBG levels go down, insulin levels go up as a consequence.

If it was true that insulin directly caused pattern baldness then people with the autoimmune type I form of insulin dependent diabetes, where insulin production is significantly reduced, would be expected to be more resistant to development of pattern baldness and/or to have more limited hair loss.

However, there is no evidence to show that diabetics have reduced levels of pattern alopecia.


Insulin may have an affect on pattern alopecia, but the weight of evidence indicates that it is only a potential influence when other factors such as steroids and SHBG are involved.



that ignores the fact that high and low insulin levels cause the same thing, high glucose levels.

No studies showing high glucose levels are causing/accelerating alopecia. Just high insulin levels. Glucose levels will get stable after some time someone reduces sugars and starches.
 

powersam

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dude if your insulin levels are high, your glucose levels are high. insulin is only indirectly associated with male pattern baldness.

show me some studies. actually no, go read more.
 

tomas99

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Well, logically it is impossible to have high glucose levels if you do not eat sugar. Log glucose levels means low insulin levels.

Insulin resistance is heavily linked with male pattern baldness. Some studies here:

http://www.google.com/search?hair loss=en&sa=X ... ss&spell=1

I think it is waste of our time to post one study after another. Much better is to move from theory to practise. I will post pictures as soon as regrowth is more visible and undeniable. NO BIG THREE. By regrowth I always mean regrowth at temples, which is the hardest place to regrowth + easiest place to notice regrowth.
 

Bryan

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flimflam said:
i'm still chuckling at the diet-obsessed-genetics-denying vegan dude continually using the word 'dairy' as a noun.
:lol:

Me too! I'm not sure how it sounds to British ears, but to American ears it sounds stupid and uneducated, something you'd expect hillbillies to say! :D
 

michael barry

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Its so sad to see these men beating themselves up over diet and baldness.

Gentlemen, two things bind testostererone in your blood and make it "unavailable" for conversion to DHT, one is globulin and one is albium. To up globulin, eat a diet that does not induce insulin resistance (i.e. less starch, less sugars), to up albium, eat more fish and chicken.................................thats about it.


However, if you dont have male pattern baldness genes....................you dont have them, and can eat anything you want and you still wont lose hair. My two uncles attest to this. Both are heavy men, and both have all their teenage hair in their mid-fifties. That is that.
 

docj077

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tomas99 said:
Well, logically it is impossible to have high glucose levels if you do not eat sugar.

Actually, this statement is untrue. Loss of gluconeogenic control in the liver is a hallmark of insulin-independent or Type 2 diabetes mellitus.
 

flimflam

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Bryan said:
Me too! I'm not sure how it sounds to British ears, but to American ears it sounds stupid and uneducated, something you'd expect hillbillies to say! :D

hehe. Not being insulting when I say this (well, actually I am) but to my ears, er eyes, it sounds like English isn't his first language when used like that.
 

Armando Jose

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Hi guys;

If diet are so important in common baldness, how it explain the different incidence between sexes? Is it a valueble differentiation? Women and men eats so differently.

Armando
 

tomas99

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No, diet influence your hormones in negative way. Since you have much T and thus much DHT, guys are facing worse type of hair loss than girls.

With perfect diet (we can argue what is perfect diet - I could say everything that is natural and raw, except meat which should be grass-fed) and perfect health, fluctulation of your hormones would be different.

Girls are facing the same but have less androgens to work with which means less hair loss.
 

retropunk

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tomas99 said:
No, diet influence your hormones in negative way. Since you have much T and thus much DHT, guys are facing worse type of hair loss than girls.

Bullshit. Bald men are much more accepted than women with with visible hair loss.

With perfect diet (we can argue what is perfect diet - I could say everything that is natural and raw, except meat which should be grass-fed) and perfect health, fluctulation of your hormones would be different.

Girls are facing the same but have less androgens to work with which means less hair loss.

You're trying to simplify female hair loss by saying it's the same reason men loss hair, but since they have less testosterone, they haveless worries. However, unlike men, women have other worries - there's also PCOS (which has an androgenic alopecia effect), and estrogen deficiency alopecia.
 

frailstar

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tomas99 said:
docj077 said:
frailstar said:
Jkkezh said:
frailstar said:
What do I think or what do I know? I know that diet is the most important factor.

How do you know that? There have been a lot of other changes as well.

Decrease in physical activity. More people working inside rather then outdoors. Increase in electromagnetic fields. Increased pollution. Increased use of chemicals. Increased hygiene. Might as well blame baldness on all of that...

How do I know? The China Study, a study conducted in the early 1970s proves it. Read The China Study book, better, go to amazon.com and read about this book. This book is what gave me the idea that male pattern baldness was not genetic at all but diet related. Just like cancer and heart disease. This guy studied different countries within China, those countries in China that consumed the most animal protein had the most heart disease and cancer, those that didn't had the least. So it's a snapshot inside China, studying diet and cancer and the connection. If it were genetics why then were cancer rates so different within China. He discovered a direct correlation between the percentage of animal proteins consumption and higher cancer rates. Proving that it's not genetics but diet. And NO I'm not trying to sell this book, I know I'm talking a lot about it, that's because it's important to my argument. It's hard to get into a debate when so few of you are even familiar with The China Study.

You are aware that both of the authors of the book you're referring to have male pattern baldness, I hope?

In fact, if you look hard enough, pretty much every physician that thinks they have something important to say about the human diet has some form of baldness.

Your genetics determine your body's response to your diet. Genetics are more important.

Yes sure genetics is there. But it is not like you are having blue eyes. It is genetic that says under certain conditions, you will go bald. And food influencing all hormones in your body is playing major part in these conditions.

You can not change genetics and you must play with cards you were give. So only way to avoid unwanted storyline, you must change those conditions to such conditions that are not trigging your genetics. If you remove conditions completely, that could be cure or rather "really working treatment".

Without balding genes you can eat everything you want, you can have as much stress as you can have but never go seriously bald. Get cancer or something, but hair will stay. With genetics, there are many factors that helps and accelerate this process and I think diet is about 90% in these factors.

Thats I am sure it works and it seems it is starting to work for me.

Preach it!
 

frailstar

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flimflam said:
i'm still chuckling at the diet-obsessed-genetics-denying vegan dude continually using the word 'dairy' as a noun.
:lol:

First of all I'm no denying genetics, if that's what you are reading into my theory you are misunderstanding. Seems to me you would rather talk about my use of the word dairy instead of discussing what's being discussed. Because if you thought for a moment, something I doubt you've done very often, you might change your mind about diet and male pattern baldness.
 

frailstar

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flimflam said:
Bryan said:
Me too! I'm not sure how it sounds to British ears, but to American ears it sounds stupid and uneducated, something you'd expect hillbillies to say! :D

hehe. Not being insulting when I say this (well, actually I am) but to my ears, er eyes, it sounds like English isn't his first language when used like that.

How am I using the word dairy improperly? In the dictionary it says, "of, for, or pertaining to milk, cream, butter, cheese, etc.: dairy products; the dairy case at a supermarket." So when I say... the consumption of dairy products. How is this wrong? How is this hillybilly sounding? Explain this to me please.
 

docj077

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frailstar said:
flimflam said:
i'm still chuckling at the diet-obsessed-genetics-denying vegan dude continually using the word 'dairy' as a noun.
:lol:

First of all I'm no denying genetics, if that's what you are reading into my theory you are misunderstanding. Seems to me you would rather talk about my use of the word dairy instead of discussing what's being discussed. Because if you thought for a moment, something I doubt you've done very often, you might change your mind about diet and male pattern baldness.

Insulting others, because you have grandiose ideals just makes you look foolish. Try a different approach. You might end up making yourself look like less of a jackass.
 

frailstar

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docj077 said:
frailstar said:
flimflam said:
i'm still chuckling at the diet-obsessed-genetics-denying vegan dude continually using the word 'dairy' as a noun.
:lol:

First of all I'm no denying genetics, if that's what you are reading into my theory you are misunderstanding. Seems to me you would rather talk about my use of the word dairy instead of discussing what's being discussed. Because if you thought for a moment, something I doubt you've done very often, you might change your mind about diet and male pattern baldness.

Insulting others, because you have grandiose ideals just makes you look foolish. Try a different approach. You might end up making yourself look like less of a jackass.

I only insult those that insult me first. Don't insult me and I won't insult you. See how that works?
 

Bryan

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frailstar said:
How am I using the word dairy improperly? In the dictionary it says, "of, for, or pertaining to milk, cream, butter, cheese, etc.: dairy products; the dairy case at a supermarket." So when I say... the consumption of dairy products. How is this wrong? How is this hillybilly sounding? Explain this to me please.

That specific definition and those specific examples AREN'T wrong. They're perfectly correct. But that's not what we're laughing at! What we're laughing at is what flimflam clearly described in plain English, which is your use of the word "dairy" as a NOUN. Think how cornball and hillbilly it would sound if someone said, "I need to go pick up a quart of dairy at the supermarket"! :wink:
 

frailstar

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Bryan said:
frailstar said:
How am I using the word dairy improperly? In the dictionary it says, "of, for, or pertaining to milk, cream, butter, cheese, etc.: dairy products; the dairy case at a supermarket." So when I say... the consumption of dairy products. How is this wrong? How is this hillybilly sounding? Explain this to me please.

That specific definition and those specific examples AREN'T wrong. They're perfectly correct. But that's not what we're laughing at! What we're laughing at is what flimflam clearly described in plain English, which is your use of the word "dairy" as a NOUN. Think how cornball and hillbilly it would sound if someone said, "I need to go pick up a quart of dairy at the supermarket"! :wink:

Mmm, ok, but I didn't use it in that context. If I did I can't find it. Show me where I used it in that context.
 

frailstar

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Bryan said:
frailstar said:
How am I using the word dairy improperly? In the dictionary it says, "of, for, or pertaining to milk, cream, butter, cheese, etc.: dairy products; the dairy case at a supermarket." So when I say... the consumption of dairy products. How is this wrong? How is this hillybilly sounding? Explain this to me please.

That specific definition and those specific examples AREN'T wrong. They're perfectly correct. But that's not what we're laughing at! What we're laughing at is what flimflam clearly described in plain English, which is your use of the word "dairy" as a NOUN. Think how cornball and hillbilly it would sound if someone said, "I need to go pick up a quart of dairy at the supermarket"! :wink:

"And also explains why the Chinese who don't eat a lot of dairy have hair."

Above is the quote you used in example. I'm not seeing where this is incorrect. CORNBALL -- is still believing that there is no direct link between diet and health.
 

Bryan

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Well, here is your statement to which I referred very early in this thread:

"And also explains why the Chinese who don't eat a lot of dairy have hair."
 
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