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My theory for Male Pattern Baldness, care to poke some holes

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by frailstar, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. ants

    ants New Member

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    Interesting topic I decided to make my first (intense and very long) post :)

    Here is my analytical view on male pattern baldness along with half a life story - read at your own discretion :eek:

    In my opinion and from experience male pattern baldness is triggered by cortisol/stress, - mental stress which can also be because of social problems. I have seen studys on premature balding and high cortisol levels were the result of analysis. Cortisol causes fat deposits around the waist, which you may notice in alot of bald guys who look resonably slim except in the waist area- a pear shape body. Where as the actor on the previous page with hair is kind of chubby all around, this is not caused from cortisol fat deposits, just overeating or perhaps genetics. Of course you must be prone to hairloss (asian people have less incidence of this - they have a lower dht conversion rate or something similar- another study I have read from researching pubmed etc)

    OK in my case I had just left university after the first semester as I wasnt enjoying it partly because my friends left, partly because I hadn't made any new ones, also the subject.

    I was always a high acheiver top 10 student at school and quite athletic person - 1st XI soccer.

    I felt like I had failed myself and parents by not doing university which I now realise is not as important as I thought, and I became depressed and my parents pressuring me to look for a job but I felt bad applying for dead end jobs (bad mindset I guess looking back) anyway I started getting quite alot of grey hair from stress(induced by myself and my parents) which made me very depressed as you can imagine at age 19!! vicous cycle..

    So this was going on for 6months and I was getting grayer and it was pretty visible like you kind of have those gray wings on the side of your head and I was getting more stressed like what would my friends say etc, after all I was just one year out of highschool, I became insecure about going out meeting people, even seeing my friends etc.

    I tried dying my hair black (natural is dark brown) and it looked good but still didnt really help me mentally as I felt I was covering something, the grey came through quickly and I didnt want to have to do that every week and I didnt need the extra cost as well having just started uni again. After dying my hair I got hit on more, not directly but I could hear girls in groups talking giggling etc about "that guy over there" obviously loud enough so I could hear. (tall/dark/handsome definately holds true for first impressions - these are 18 year old girls remember)
    I guess I was pretty attractive as it was still summer and I was tanned pretty fit and had longish dark hair but I still felt insecure like I was covering something up and what if they found out so I didnt have the confidence to go talk to people.

    After about 8 months after leaving uni for the first time I guess my body couldn't take it anymore and I started noticing hair loss around the temples, which is why I believe the trigger was all the negative mental stress.

    At first I thought it would go away but after after noticing that my hair wasnt growing back I literally had a mental breakdown...I left my 2nd year semester at university after trying a different subject as I couldn't concentrate my brain was fucked (cortisol / high stress / cortisol based depression does cause brain damage which is reversible I believe, thank god).

    age 19 still - I started a job in 2003 but still didnt feel good, eventually I shaved my mop which was fashionable back in 2003-4 (ashton kucher / rockstar look) as my hair was becoming less managable. But my mum complained about the shaved look as it had always been long and that didnt exactly make me feel good as i knew the hairloss would continue and I would *have* to do it oneday.

    This got me what I now realise was alot of *good* female attention as the shaved head was just coming into fashion and I had a virtually normal hairline but probably still detectable hairloss(6months hair loss).
    Even still I had bad feelings like "what would a women see in me - gray hair and losing it.." and never acted upon any of the attention I got. I regret not doing anything, I mean one pretty fine girl at work literally held my gaze while I walked toward her from 10M away and I didnt do anything, not even a word stupidstupidstupid :x

    So I let it grow again, keeping it reasonably short until 2006 when I started doing #2 all over jobs.

    I have alot of regrets as I am certain I caused my own hairloss and I will try to improve my life and have no more regrets.

    I have now accepted male pattern baldness and am more a normal person although I feel I will never be the same person I once was. Orgasms/Food dont feel/taste the same anymore. :( It feels like a complete hormonal change.

    I will try a treatment soon, I would say im about norwood 2 - 2.5 atm.

    I recently saw a guy from high school who i can now really sympathise with. This guy was balding from about 15-16, although not balding myself I didnt really pickup on it as I thought no one can bald that early when I was in school.

    When I saw him recently (age 23) he had pretty much the horseshoe shape and his hair wasnt shaved down. Norwood 6 at a guess.

    Man I now really feel for that guy, he must of been near Norwood 3 at school! What he must have gone through inside geez, you could tell he was always nervous at school, spoke very quick now I know... He must of been in hell, he left early to join the army for a while - no coincidence there, crewcuts!!

    However even since I knew this guy from a young age he seemed nervous so my cortisol theory still stands.

    I recently noticed another high school friend had a receeding hairline who was much more "awkward" then I was. And again at the local pub you see guys from school and it seems the socially awkward ones / less confident guys from school were now balding.

    What was quite amazing in my last job (IT, which attracts many socially awkward / geeky people) almost *all* the guys there had some kind of hairloss i would say 85% had some hairloss, even 2 chinese guys who are usually quite resistant to male pattern baldness (Which I put down to partly genes but partly different social culture they tend to have stronger family bonds and more of a group mentality, eg. how they complement each other to gain face etc like the japanese.) - Again social factors / cortisol in play here - this could explain why more japanese are bald in america because they dont have the same social enviroment to fall back on, as westerners tend to be more independent.

    male pattern baldness also is probably tied in with insulin somewhere if you look at type 1 diabetics most are more prone to hairloss(again read this somewhere). Insulin/cortisol are also somewhat synergistically(sp) tied together(!) as cortisol causes energy release from cells. Which also ties together diet...

    This could explain why office workers in japan have more male pattern baldness than farm workers (more stress and more fast food/less exercise)

    On the whole Evolution concept of hairloss, I believe (and I have read this elsewhere) that it is to signal to the opposite sex to stay away from this man, in younger people it signals he may have issues. Getting baldness at a more "normal" age like 40 is acceptable as you have done your bit sexually and now don't need to be attractive to the opposite sex instead you need to raise a family.. So this is the 'normal' time for baldness to set in so you don't attract other females.

    I have noticed being a reasonably intelligent guy who can read what people are thinking, people do unfortunately treat you differently if you have hairloss more-so premature hairloss, as people will make assumptions about you by how you look if they dont really know you. Some guys I notice tend to be worse at doing this, especially if they are older than you(30-40 age) and have all there hair, some will look down on you(as after all we judge more on looks as we tend to be after the best looking b**ch around 8) ),
     
  2. Armando Jose

    Armando Jose Senior Member My Regimen

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    Wellcome ants;

    All ideas are useful, but male pattern baldness is a evasive pathology. It is neccesary, among other things, explain the special pattern of hair loss.

    You write:
    Why cortisol only affects at certains hairs.?

    Armando
     
  3. ants

    ants New Member

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    Not quite, to simplify what i mean. Constant excess cortisol or adrenal stimulation caused by stress also increases other hormones i believe (precursors to androgens like dht) which *triggers* hairloss than dht does the rest as there is increased androgen sensitivity.

    This is my assumption. :)
     
  4. Armando Jose

    Armando Jose Senior Member My Regimen

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    It is not so easy;

    I don't know that cortisol and stress increase androgens.

    Armando
     
  5. noneother

    noneother Member

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    Re:

    Sorry to dig up an old thread but this is exactly what I've been observing too! I notice the look of strain across the faces of all the men suffering from male pattern baldness and wonder what must be going through their minds.

    I myself am suffering from male pattern baldness for years. Similar to your situation I was an over-achiever, stressed as hell from a very young age and the tension built up to a point where it was stifling. I was athletic too and regularly went to the gym. In my first year of university I started shedding like mad. Now 5 years down the track I'm a NW3. This was around the time I started becoming socially awkward because I focused too much on my studies and suppressed my natural compulsions to just chill out and have fun. I developed anxiety/nervous problems and was always tense; spoke at fast speed and always worried people were judging me.

    The cause of the strain is habitual constant mental tension. I never learned how much strain I was under until recently. It's important to just let go of the strain. This must be practised and slowly the condition of the mind and body improves along with the hair. Throughout the day you gotta be vigiliant in your thoughts. Can you just not think and live in the moment?

    Immediate impacts on your scalp include the release of tension those muscles attached to your galea but more improtantly other aspects of life improve: foods taste more real and appetite returns, you see colours brighter...life feels much more fulfilling and it's just fun to exist.

    Essentially I find those with male pattern baldness have a lesson to learn. This is what the male pattern baldness teaches the suffer. It is that life is meant to be enjoyed.
     
  6. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    Yah I think diet plays a huge role, although as my male pattern baldness accompanied significant and persistent digestive issues I believe these things can cause it too. Anything that causes the liver strain (toxins, hormones, etc) seems to be able to potentially cause male pattern baldness.

    I am also VERY, VERY suspicious of fungus/Candida in general O.O
     
  7. Artas

    Artas Established Member

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    I would love to believe that diet is a factor, because it would be easy to adjust to a new diet and stick to it. However, if I lived in Japan and consumed their diet It wouldn't change the fact that I would be going bald. People in Asia have fine hair as well, is that also to do with diet?

    In addition there is many different types of balding. Some start losing it on the crown and maintain thick hair every where else on the scalp, some start losing it from the hairline and some (like me) start losing it nearly everywhere on the scalp.

    But backing with what you have said, there has been little or no scientific studies on the impact diet has on the hair. Plus, many people make changes to their diet all the time and never stick to what they eat. Foods also have several different benefits as well. So trying to change your diet to save your hair is extremely tricky as there is a lot we don't know about what these different nutrients do to our body.

    Currently I am cutting down gluten, dairy and meat products and consuming a lot of fish, seafood, rice, vegetables, fruit and herbal teas (Green Tea). I am also lowering my testosterone levels and sticking to a diet where food will decrease anti-inflammatory activity.

    I would like to believe this diet is working, but when I stopped around a friends house for two weeks I consumed a lot of dairy, sugar and gluten products and my hair felt extremely thicker during the final part of my stay. But then again, I was less stressed I did a lot more excercise. So I won't and will never know if diet does help.

    The main point I am getting across is that there is so many contributions to hair, many which all of us are unaware about. So to make a conclusion that we lose hair due to diet over the asian population is pointless.
     
  8. anxious1

    anxious1 Established Member

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    i have a problem with this comment frail made.

    first of all, cancer is a collection of hundreds of different diseases, some caused by viruses, some with many contributing factors, of which we might know a few, and some we have no idea.

    For example, certain forms of leukemia, traced back to chromosome translocations such as the 'philidelphia translocation'. We know the cells mutate because of these chromosomes, but we dont know why this happens, and therefore its hard to target treatments, because we dont understand why something is happening.

    We may constantly be discovering new steps in the pathways that lead to cancer, but we never know which step is the first step, and what causes that, and therefore how to interupt this.

    Secondly, the 'bozo's' working in labs (soon to be myself, once i get my degree), are working to find better treatments. Most cancers can only be treated, not cured.

    so to make it sound like we have already worked out what causes cancer, and that any further lab work is pointless, is just idiotic, and i can no longer take anything u say about diet and male pattern baldness seriously.


    :youbet:
     
  9. JLL

    JLL Established Member

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    The IGF-1 theory doesn't seem to be supported by evidence; in fact, evidence to the contrary exists. See for example this post:

    Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth

    The increase in IGF-1 in this study resulted in more hair growth, not less.

    That said, I can see how excess IGF-1 could promote aging, as calorie-restricted and/or protein-restricted animals have less IGF-1 and live longer.
     
  10. s.a.f

    s.a.f Senior Member

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    Exactly!
    Evolutionary changes happen over 100,000's of years so yes diet could play a part in m.p.b but it wont change yours unless you can stay alive for a few millenia. As a white guy if I'd been born in Africa and brought up in that enviroment eating African food and living in the climate would I have turned black? Of course not I'd still be 100% as white as I am now. So thinking that eating a Asian diet rather than a european/western one will give you better hair like them is just unbelievably stupid. As is thinking any lifestyle change will alter your genetic make up. (Hoppi)
     
  11. slurms mackenzie

    slurms mackenzie Established Member

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    Actually you'd have quite the tan.

    What do people make of the following

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_of_baldness


    To me the whole argument is a bit like smoking, if you don't smoke you're still gonna die, but not smoking can have an effect over decades.
     
  12. s.a.f

    s.a.f Senior Member

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  13. slurms mackenzie

    slurms mackenzie Established Member

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    Your skin would have better protection, you'd have more melanin which would protect your skin, I'm not sure what would lead somebody to think otherwise.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin


    However i think we're getting sidetracked.

    I'm not going to argue what is and isn't natural, whether it's boiling a toad, or sucking on a bovine udder, my point is around the time scales involved.

    Not everybody is prone to aggressive hair loss, for some it happens over decades, on those timescales, I'm not going to close my mind to the possibilities that diet and health can play a small role, please don't confuse that with me believing it's all down to diet, it absolutely isn't.

    Any thoughts on the links i posted?
     
  14. s.a.f

    s.a.f Senior Member

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    Yes but melatonin would just be my bodies natural reaction to the sun damage. Whilst a real African descendant would'nt need this to happen because their skin is already (because of evolutuion) more resistant. This is something that the body (everybody) is capable of its just like when you get a cut the scar tissue that regenerates is thicker than before but this does not change due to diet or lifestyle. But hairloss is'nt like an injury its a natural condition. Its like saying that if you were born in a cold climate you would'nt go bald because your head would recognise it needs your hair for heat.
     
  15. slurms mackenzie

    slurms mackenzie Established Member

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    I'll try and keep to the thread here.

    Do you think any natural conditions can be treated by diet?

    I've never argued that baldness is anything at all to do with evolution or adaptability, my own personal opinion is people used to die far before the gene kicked in anyway?

    Did you have any opinions on the link i posted?
     
  16. s.a.f

    s.a.f Senior Member

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    Maybe less significant conditions.

    Mine kicked in at 18/19

    That last post was my opinion.
     
  17. slurms mackenzie

    slurms mackenzie Established Member

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    Just in case there we were at cross purposes i don't mean the link to melanin

    I meant this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_of_baldness
     
  18. Nashville Hairline

    Nashville Hairline Experienced Member

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    I hate that Japanese "study" that gets cited so often, it was mentioned in the first place by a guy called Michael A Klaper (a nutritional medicine specialist, no less) and is so obviously biased towards his diet viewpoint

    A fitness expert would probably reckon its as a result of the Japanese lifestyle becoming more sedentary as it moved from being an agricultural economy to a more financial economy after WWII

    Or someone who favours the genetics idea (like me) would probably say it a result of more western men reproducing with Japanese women and passing on male pattern baldness into the Eastern gene pool.

    Either way, its only an observation dressed up as a study, there's no science there.
     
  19. s.a.f

    s.a.f Senior Member

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