Koh-ei Toyoshima - A Basic Study To Clinical Phase (riken) | Page 5 | HairLossTalk Forums

Koh-ei Toyoshima - A Basic Study To Clinical Phase (riken)

Discussion in 'General Discussions, Presentations, and Interviews' started by hellouser, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. bags

    bags Established Member My Regimen

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    @Omega2327 has the nerve to down vote me when I paid $200, and am calling out byebyeuser for not doing what I paid for? Fck outta here pussy.

    Dude is not evening going to post RCH01 data that I paid to send his ass to Japan for.

    Seeing none of you pitched money how bout you piss off and get your bigger problems (money) figured out.

    Bunch of Anti Andro users around here. Smfh. Can't believe it's taken 3 weeks for someone to call him out
     
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  2. Fuji Maru Kagurazaka

    Fuji Maru Kagurazaka Established Member My Regimen

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    Hello! I am Fuji Maru Kagurazaka.
    I live in Tokyo, Japan. Thank you.

    Mr. WASEDA's posting activity on the Internet is the last on January 20, 2002, hairsite.com.
    After that, there is no evidence that he appeared.

    kagurazakafujimaru.jpg
     
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  3. Fuji Maru Kagurazaka

    Fuji Maru Kagurazaka Established Member My Regimen

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    Hello! I am Fuji Maru Kagurazaka.
    I live in Tokyo, Japan. Thank you.

    I am sorry, but there is absolutely no information in Japan.


    kagurazakafujimaru.jpg
     
  4. ZZmop

    ZZmop Established Member

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    He just... stopped posting. Sure there was general ennui about the conference but vast majority were grateful. He did say it takes a long time to sort then watermark the presentations on top of his work schedule. Unless he didn't catch the Shiseido presentation? Who knows.
     
  5. Omega2327

    Omega2327 Established Member My Regimen

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    Just please.. shut the fuck up with your whining. I contributed $100 - similar to you. Hellouser has already posted a ton of shit on the conference so don't act like he just went on vacation and spent our money on booze and strippers. You give him no credit whatsoever and I wouldn't want to post information either if pieces of shit like you showed absolutely no gratitude. Why not compose your message in a way that will actually be constructive instead of just impulsively posting out of sheer emotion like a godamn 5 year old? And the fact that you are calling me out solely because I disliked your posts makes me think you're an emotionally unstable nutjob.
     
  6. bags

    bags Established Member My Regimen

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    Says the bald fuck who disliked my post because he has hellousers dick up his ass. Bunch of bald ball-less cucks. Cut out the anti andros bitch tits.

    Like I'm gunna listen to flamer on the internet telling me what to do lmao. Don't worry, soon you commie cucks will have your censorship but not today pussy.

    You and Hellouser are both useless as fuck.

     
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  7. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member

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    I have to agree that Hellouser has been unprofessional in his reporting on the congress. He was silent during the entire congress, and it took a week after returning to provide any sort of information. An update could have been written out on the train, or on the plane. I have a hard time with the excuse that he did not have time and was too tired. Perhaps he is not well? I do hope that's not the case, but it would explain it. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, as he did a good job the last time around. There is just no denying there is something wrong with his treatment of the community which paid for him to go and report back to us. Since he sat through all of the presentations, I would have appreciated his take on them instead of having to listen to all of them(half of which haven't even been uploaded) to find the new/interesting/useful information.
     
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  8. bags

    bags Established Member My Regimen

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    Finally, someone with his balls still intact lol.

     
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  9. Nadia1972

    Nadia1972 Established Member My Regimen

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    when I said that we can only hope for treatment in 2035
    Now the biggest hope with what hellhouser has brought back is to get grafted ass hair on the head mouahahaha
     
  10. forlorn

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    How many here have actually read the interview with Kyocera Riken?

    https://www.hairlosstalk.com/news/new-research/hair-primordiums-tsuji-organ-interview-sept2016/

    There seems to be a lot of misconceptions here regarding how much hair they can clone and how they're going to transplant it.

    The average hair transplant costs 8-12,000 USD. How much is this gonna cost?

    "Generally speaking, the price is usually expensive during initial commercial stage, and frankly speaking, we have to admit the same for our case as well. However, after that, as the number of patients increases, we believe that we will be able to better control the price, and we definitely should be able to do so. Therefore, this is our long-term plan, but we plan to eventually lower the price to the level at which anybody can benefit from this therapy."

    Do you plan to license this technology to surgeons worldwide, or do you have any plans to create devices which may help automate the grafting process to make results more consistent and uniform?

    "So, at the initial phase, we plan to use only the surgeons having the level of skills which meets our criteria in order to enables us to ensure stable effectivity and safety. Eventually, in the future, we plan to transfer our technologies to surgeons at clinics in order to increase the number of certified surgeons certified in order to have our technology widely used. As for the last question of automating the transplanting process, as Toyoshima has touched on this earlier, we think that automating the transplanting process is an effective means to ensure stable effects. Therefore, we would like to consider developing a device to automate follicle transplants in the future."

    If this method succeeds, demand will be in the hundreds of millions of people. Can you describe your current thinking on how production could be expanded to meet such a large demand?

    "At this point now, we have already started considering about production stability and efficiency. And, as we announced in the recent press release, this led us to reach an agreement with KYOCERA Corporation to jointly develop cell processing devices, etc. to produce follicular primordiums. Eventually, we believe that not only automating the follicular primordium production process, which is only a part of the entire production process, but also automating the entire production process will enable us to further increase the production capacity efficiently. We are also considering to set up treatment locations or cell processing bases in major cities around the world. Therefore, in order to achieve this, we will need to establish a system/structure which allows us to offer our therapy at a broader range of locations including clinics. As a company, by increasing the production capacity, we aim to offer our service to about 10,000 patients a year around the world, therefore we recognize the need for developing a system/structure which enables us to achieve this goal."

    -------------------------

    Now, here are the more important questions for those of you who are unconcerned with the money or the details:

    You have already touched on this, but in terms of offering this therapy to people around the world, will a separate regulatory approval process be required in each country?

    "Yes, each country requires its own registration/approval. But, as far as we talk about the Japanese market, we are planning to offer it to the general public as a treatment in 2020."

    This means that if there's someone you need to blame, it's the FDA. Unless you can cough up the money for a trip to Japan.

    How many hair follicles can you clone?

    "[...] Collectively from these researches, we think that we may be [able to] increase follicles at least by about 1,000 times."

    This means you can get your hairline back and then some. I would also like to point out that they've figured out how to control the thickness and colour of the hair, meaning that they will be able to give you a completely natural hairline with baby hairs in the front and the whole shebang:

    "[...] Our technology enables us to regenerate miniaturized follicles with 1-hair in the front, while regenerating thick follicles with 2- or 3-hair toward the back of the head."

    How are you going to transplant/collect the hair follicles?

    "Our transplanting technique was developed based on the FUT, Follicular Unit Transplantation, which is the surgical autografting used by hair transplant surgeons for hair loss treatment. [...] It will leave almost no scar… the scar will not visible at all. Yes, so the process requires a skin incision, but please understand that the incision will be about the same size as a needle head."

    This means you can forget about them having to cut out a long strip of skin and hair. A needle head, people. That's all they need. Like I said before, they take a tiny amount of hair follicles and increase them by a thousandfold at the very least.

    How long do you have to wait before you can see the results?

    "3 to 6 months."

    --------------------------

    You got it straight from the horse's mouth here. Having said all of these things, who can now provide newer information which can refute the answers given in this interview?
     
  11. Nadia1972

    Nadia1972 Established Member My Regimen

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    Eventually, we believe....
    If this method succeeds,....
    we think that automating the transplanting pr...
    we believe that we will be able to better control ....
    they will be able to give...
    blablablabla....

     
  12. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member

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    @forlorn All of that stuff has been discussed endlessly. None of it is reason to be pessimistic.
     
  13. ossrey

    ossrey Member

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    Should we be concerned by the fact that he mentions they intend to treat 10,000 patients a year (presumably in the first years or so following release)? This is a tiny fraction of the number of people who would be eyeing this treatment!
     
  14. forlorn

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    The reason they brought Kyocera into the mix was in order to automate and scale up the process. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to treat a measly 10,000 patients a year and miss out on making a lot more money. However, about 400,000 people worldwide had some form of hair restoration done in 2014, and considering that the initial price of hair follicle cloning will be higher than that of a regular hair transplant, I think it's reasonable to expect 10,000 patients in the beginning - and it's better to underestimate than to overestimate.
     
  15. ossrey

    ossrey Member

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    Yeah, I hope Kyocera kills it with their scale-up technology. I think one of the pivotal questions here is how quickly the treatment will be scaled. If the rate is 10,000 patients in year 1, and then (totally arbitrarily) say 50,000, in year 2 and 2, 200,000 in year 3, then it could be quite some time before many people can get a slot at the table.

    Obviously it doesn't make sense for me to speculate about how quickly the technology will scale; i'm just hoping it's quick
     
  16. H

    H Experienced Member

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    I'm more concerned with this whole can be used with FUE business. I thought with at least 100 healthy follicles still on your head this is all you'd need for even the baldest of us and now it seems it's not panning out how they said they thought it would in the interview. The money and available are issues but the biggest one for me is if this is actually the treatment I'm looking for.
     
  17. forlorn

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    With 100 healthy follicles on your head, you can get your hair back completely.
     
  18. Fuji Maru Kagurazaka

    Fuji Maru Kagurazaka Established Member My Regimen

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    Hello! I am Fuji Maru Kagurazaka.
    I live in Tokyo, Japan. Thank you.


    Mr. forlorn saw that he was quite knowledgeable.

    kagurazakafujimaru.jpg
     
  19. H

    H Experienced Member

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    That's the impression I was under but then he said it could be used with hair transplant and I don't know why anyone would clone all their hair up until the last 3000 grafts ya know? Their could be a good reason I'm just not seeing.
     
  20. forlorn

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    Perhaps you misunderstood; they have to take enough hair follicles that fit the radius of a needle head, which they will then clone. After that, someone will have to transplant those cloned hair follicles back into your head, whether it be a surgeon or an automated device (which they hope to develop somewhere down the line). They also talked about cloning more hair follicles than necessary, so that you could store an excess of hair follicles in a biobank for future use.

    Having had one or four hair transplants makes no difference, they could simply take a couple of the transplanted DHT-resistant donor hairs on your scalp instead. Even then, you will certainly have enough donor hairs on the back of your head despite many previous hair transplants. There's not a single hair transplant patient in the world who can't get his hair cloned.
     

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