Koh-ei Toyoshima - A Basic Study To Clinical Phase (riken)

[ALightInTheDark]

128 motherfuckin hairs/cm2..
With Follica which could bring even more.

If they bring those babies on market we did it guys. It's done, maintenance on Breezula/Fevi and good bye HairLossTalk haha

 

[RoyMunsonned]

For anyone arriving here not keen on listening to a half-hour talk, what is the summary of the Tsuji procedure status as of 16th November 2017?

i.e what if anything has he actually demonstrated in the lab with human cells - has he actually started with simple cultures of cells and grown a single working human follicle in any environment yet? Have we at least had that basic proof of concept?

Also, what still needs to be done, have any past problems been overcome recently, and have any new ones emerged?

Also is there anywhere that his publications are available for free?

 

[thomps1523]

For anyone arriving here not keen on listening to a half-hour talk, what is the summary of the Tsuji procedure status as of 16th November 2017?

i.e what if anything has he actually demonstrated in the lab with human cells - has he actually started with simple cultures of cells and grown a single working human follicle in any environment yet? Have we at least had that basic proof of concept?

Also, what still needs to be done, have any past problems been overcome recently, and have any new ones emerged?

Also is there anywhere that his publications are available for free?

I would tell you, but I'm not super keen on answering someone's question that is so disinterested in a topic that they can't spend 30 minutes listening to something someone spent several days of their time preparing to put up.

 

[RoyMunsonned]

I would tell you, but I'm not super keen on answering someone's question that is so disinterested in a topic that they can't spend 30 minutes listening to something someone spent several days of their time preparing to put up.

Jesus. Plenty of people will find their way here with those sorts of questions in mind. Some of them might be busy with other things too - how many of them do you imagine will want to sit through all that material, delivered in that voice, if they don't have to? It should matter nothing to Hellouser (who is a grown man) whether any key information that he's gathered reaches people in fewer steps either, he enabled it either way and can pat himself on the back for his fact-finding mission. That's what we're after, clear facts. What's the point in having a forum like this if not to make key information as visible / easily accessible as possible? Lastly I'll be surprised if all the stuff I asked is all answerable by that recording anyway. So are you here to help or not?

 

[thomps1523]

Jesus. Plenty of people will find their way here with those sorts of questions in mind. Some of them might be busy with other things too - how many of them do you imagine will want to sit through all that material, delivered in that voice, if they don't have to? It should matter nothing to Hellouser (who is a grown man) whether any key information that he's gathered reaches people in fewer steps either, he enabled it either way and can pat himself on the back for his fact-finding mission. That's what we're after, clear facts. What's the point in having a forum like this if not to make key information as visible / easily accessible as possible? Lastly I'll be surprised if all the stuff I asked is all answerable by that recording anyway. So are you here to help or not?

Ironic you have time to write novels, and watch for responses tho huh?

 

[RoyMunsonned]

Ironic you have time to write novels, and watch for responses tho huh?

Well my first instinct was to just tell you to f*** off, you f*****g arsehole. Clearly I should've just went with that but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[H]

People and you notice balding only if you have already lost 50% of your hair, so you would still look like a fullhead at this density.

Ya I totally understand that but they put 128 hairs under the picture of the mouse and if that the outcome they are thinking that looks pretty sparse.

I so hope these guys pull through but lately it's really dawned on me this might not be the outcome we were thinking or at least I was thinking which is fine good work anyway but it still might not be enough for us more advanced. I'm only diffused but I'm light blonde and I'm going to need a lot of hair I don't know if this will be that helpful anymore for me at least guess we'll see.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I would tell you, but I'm not super keen on answering someone's question that is so disinterested in a topic that they can't spend 30 minutes listening to something someone spent several days of their time preparing to put up.

What an a**h** lol.

There's any number of reasons why he might not be listening to it. For example he might be in a public space and will be for a while, so he doesn't want to turn on the volume. He might be a newbie.

 

[vernon]

bookmarking this thread for 2035

 

[lemoncloak]

@Ted Buckland don't worry too much about it. In the end of the Tsuji video of the previous congress you can hear him talk about how they grew follicles in mice from human hair cells. Remember, growing already existing cells is one thing, multiplying them successfully is another. We're not sure if they can multiply human DPs and epithelial cells but judging by the interview and noisette's email I'd say DPs are in the bag and stem cells are almost there. Tsuji's wording in the email confused me tbh, but only new posted studies will answer the question.

The interesting thing about this is that it implies 28 germs created 128 hairs.

Yes! 4.5 hairs/follicle on average, which is beyond great! As for the sparse hairs on the mice, I'm sure they weren't going for maximum density at the time.

 

[dermrafok]

@Fuji Maru Kagurazaka

Is this human hair? or Is it made from mouse hair cells?

View attachment 70162

It's human hair....

 

[thomps1523]

What an a**h** lol.

There's any number of reasons why he might not be listening to it. For example he might be in a public space and will be for a while, so he doesn't want to turn on the volume. He might be a newbie.

I notice you were quick to answer his question too. When someone says they aren't keen on something it means they are lacking enough interest to make an effort, not that they're unable to do so. If you're that disinterested why ask the question?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

When someone says they aren't keen on something it means they are lacking enough interest to make an effort, not that they're unable to do so.

Stop making inaccurate assumptions.

 

[d3nt3dsh0v3l]

bookmarking this thread for 2035

Yeah pretty much. We are likely not going to have access to Tsuji 2020, despite that being everyone's pipedream. Tsuji of course is making great progress, and still has a few problems to solve. But even if the tech were ready by tomorrow, which it is not, scaling up takes time. Their labs need to be able to have high throughout to culture everyone's samples. The optimised protocol needs to be established. This is clearly more involved than an fue, if you want to control hair density, growth direction, etc. for a nice result.

Imho, some people here misunderstand the 2020 deadline. Its likely that they aim to start human trials by then. Now I know that Japan's laws allow early release, but again scaling up and having high throughput facilities is a sizable engineering challenge (which is still much easier than a research challenge in which the answers are unknown and need to be discovered). Commercialization necessitates high throughput. But that's also not Tsuji's job though. He is the lead researcher is all.

The good news though is that the degree of balding of the patient appears to have no bearing on the treatment effectiveness, and of course the treatment is poised to be a full cure. Good stuff.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Yeah pretty much. We are likely not going to have access to Tsuji 2020, despite that being everyone's pipedream. Tsuji of course in making great progress, and still has a few problems to solve. But even if the tech were ready by tomorrow, which it is not, scaling up takes time. Their labs need to be able to have high throughout to culture everyone's samples. The optimised protocol needs to be established. This is clearly more involved than an fue, if you want to control hair density, growth direction, etc. for a nice result.

Imho, some people here misunderstand the 2020 deadline. Its likely that they aim to start human trials by then. Now I know that Japan's laws allow early release, but again scaling up and having high throughput facilities is a sizable engineering challenge (which is still much easier than a research challenge in which the answers are unknown and need to be discovered). Commercialization necessitates high throughput. But that's also not Tsuji's job though. He is the lead researcher is all.

The good news though is that the degree of balding of the patient appears to have no bearing on the treatment effectiveness, and of course the treatment is poised to be a full cure. Good stuff.

Good post
But i still don't understand how this treatment could be a full cure to you, what's up with the remaining hair assuming you're NW2 ?

 

[d3nt3dsh0v3l]

Good post
But i still don't understand how this treatment could be a full cure to you, what's up with the remaining hair assuming you're NW2 ?

Ah apparently there is some epilation plan that they have to pluck out dying hair. Afaik, epilation is just plucking the hair out. Not sure if they meant something closer to laser hair removal but didn't seem that way. I honestly have no idea what their plan is for people in the awkward phase. I'm just assuming that if you stabilize at nw6, they'll just give you new hair to fill your bald regions. Maybe I'm not understanding your question though.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Ah apparently there is some epilation plan that they have to pluck out dying hair. Afaik, epilation is just plucking the hair out. Not sure if they meant something closer to laser hair removal but didn't seem that way. I honestly have no idea what their plan is for people in the awkward phase. I'm just assuming that if you stabilize at nw6, they'll just give you new hair to fill your bald regions. Maybe I'm not understanding your question though.

No you understood it, that's my concern
If you're NW3 on antiandrogens treatment regimen, you"ll be able to fill your hairline with Tsuji, but you're basically still fucked for the rest...that's why i'm having a hard time considering this a cure, this is just a glorified unlimited hair transplant.
I will be very reluctant to remove all my precious remaining hair up to NW6 to get this transplant...

 

[d3nt3dsh0v3l]

No you understood it, that's my concern
If you're NW3 on antiandrogens treatment regimen, you"ll be able to fill your hairline with Tsuji, but you're basically still fucked for the rest...that's why i'm having a hard time considering this a cure, this is just a glorified unlimited hair transplant.
I will be very reluctant to remove all my precious remaining hair up to NW6 to get this transplant...

Yeah this is just conjuncture but perhaps with depilation and treatment, they expect some immunization or revitalization of existing follicles. No idea. Hopefully RCH-01S can be paired with this treatment. I am most looking forward to Sheseido's product, as it is simpler and therefore easier to scale, and already in phase 2. Though the aim is obviously not a full cure.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Yeah this is just conjuncture but perhaps with depilation and treatment, they expect some immunization or revitalization of existing follicles. No idea. Hopefully RCH-01S can be paired with this treatment. I am most looking forward to Sheseido's product, as it is simpler and therefore easier to scale, and already in phase 2. Though the aim is obviously not a full cure.

Yep, full cure is out of reach IMO, but RCH-01+ Tsuji will certainly be the closer we will ever got to it
If Shiseido/Replicel maintain their claims, we will never undergo antiandrogens therapies anymore, and future generations won't even need Tsuji

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Yep, full cure is out of reach IMO, but RCH-01+ Tsuji will certainly be the closer we will ever got to it
If Shiseido/Replicel maintain their claims, we will never undergo antiandrogens therapies anymore, and future generations won't even need Tsuji

That's not necessarily true. All RCH-01 can do is extend the androgen resistant properties that are present in your donor region to the rest of your scalp. Some people still bald in the donor region. So the results are going to be dependent on your personal donor hairs genetic resistance to androgens.

That said, most people have highly resistant donor regions so the results should be no hair loss in youth and middle age for nearly everyone.

 

[thomps1523]

Stop making inaccurate assumptions.

Are you aware of the definition of the word keen? It doesn't require assumptions when that is the word used by the poster...