Koh-ei Toyoshima - A Basic Study To Clinical Phase (riken) | HairLossTalk Forums

Koh-ei Toyoshima - A Basic Study To Clinical Phase (riken)

Discussion in 'General Discussions, Presentations, and Interviews' started by hellouser, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. hellouser

    hellouser Senior Member My Regimen

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  2. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    They are more advanced than what is presented in that presentation. It's normal in science.
     
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  3. hellouser

    hellouser Senior Member My Regimen

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    Because:

    1) I sent emails that went unanswered
    2) I couldn't find him until the day of his presentation
    3) When I did approach him, it was right before his presentation
    4) There was a clear language barrier (you can tell in the video where I ask the question at the end about the clinical trials)
    5) He agreed to meet in between presentations, but there was no time in between presentations anyway (as I mentioned in my 'intro' post)
    6) After his presentation he was gone anyway

    Even if I did get to interview him, I think it'd be a rather complicated one. HairLossTalk.com conducted an interview with him earlier this year but needed a translator for it.
     
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  4. hairloss_user

    hairloss_user Established Member My Regimen

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    So they have already started clinical trials and testing it on humans?
     
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  5. centurie

    centurie Established Member My Regimen

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    The sound on my phone really sucks, but from what i made out at the end i think he insinuated that human trails will begin in 2 years time?

    Someone correct me if i am wrong.
     
  6. Hillman001

    Hillman001 New Member My Regimen

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    Why is it on slide 36 it says it could be used as a compliment to FUT? I thought the whole point and hype of this was that it would make hair transplants obsolete and be a quicker and easier way of getting a full head of hair.
     
  7. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    In 2 years no, before. Proof of concept is done.
     
  8. Noisette

    Noisette Established Member

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    Awesome... 128 hairs / cm2 , pretty exciting ! thanks Hellouser for all your hard work.

    From your pics
    8gAzSmf.jpg
     
  9. hairloss_user

    hairloss_user Established Member My Regimen

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    Sounds like we won't find out what he meant from his last words :(
     
  10. bags

    bags Established Member My Regimen

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    Jeeeeeezes why do we now have even more questions than answers??

    I know the science is important and great to understand. I love learning about it. But the only thing we all want to know deep down is when are human trials starting? and are they still on track to launch on time?

    As well yes, why is this complementary to FUT instead of being a fully independent solution?? Maybe V1 they only want to transplant limited hairs to avoid potential issues?? Well thankfully I'm still NW1 Diffuse thinning so a transplant and RCH-01 will work for me.

    So I'll just wait for @hellouser Shiseido presentation. Patiently of course. :-/
     
  11. hairloss_user

    hairloss_user Established Member My Regimen

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    Maybe he said "next year we commit to the hair regeneration therapy" ? would make sense
     
  12. H

    H Experienced Member

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    If you have to add with FUT I don't see how this can hope to achieve the results I was under the impression this therapy would make. Perhaps they are having doubts.
     
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  13. distracted

    distracted Established Member

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    How is he reading too much into it? He's taking the literal meaning of it..
     
  14. Omega2327

    Omega2327 Established Member My Regimen

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    Y'all are looking into this FUT thing too much. This picture is straight from Kyocera's website and literally states that the primordium method "fundamentally solves challenges in FUT":

    IMG_3456.JPG

    Furthermore, let's not forget what Toyoshima himself said in the interview:

    "Keiko: Thank you. Question 10: Suggestion from a user regarding # 8 – Some feel that hair transplants are detectable because natural hair lines do not usually have extremely thick follicles in the front. Natural hairlines usually include miniaturized follicles and “peach fuzz”. If you could control hair shaft thickness to varying percentages, would you be able to implant intentionally thinner hairs near the front and achieve a more natural appearance?

    Mr. Toyoshima: This is related to one of the earlier questions. A hair follicle germ that is regenerated intentionally small, will result in a small follicle. As pointed out in the question, therefore, just as done in existing FUT therapy, our technology enables us to regenerate miniaturized follicles with 1-hair in the front, while regenerating thick follicles with 2- or 3-hair toward the back of the head. Therefore, we believe, we can eventually attain a more excellent result compared to the result generated by existing FUT."

    @hellouser when you find the time, could you an official thread for people to post their questions about Tsuji/RIKEN's work so we can ultimately set up another interview with Toyoshima as you stated?
     
  15. Jonnyyy

    Jonnyyy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Sounds like @Noisette needs to send another email!
     
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  16. barfacan

    barfacan Established Member

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    probably because you'd need some kind of hair restoration surgeon to do the implanation of the hair grafts for a natural look. That's my guess.
     
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  17. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member

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    Last I knew they weren't supposed to start animal trials until 2018. Unless I'm mistaken they are significantly ahead of schedule. This is fantastic.
     
  18. NimuDash

    NimuDash Established Member My Regimen

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    FUT + this may mean that you need FUT to reduce the amount of grafts that need to be cloned, cloning may be more expensive than regular transplanted grafts. I think what they are saying is that these grafts may be combined with regular FUT to save up time and costs. That is all.
     
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  19. H

    H Experienced Member

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    It could be that the therapy doesn't work as well as they thought and he is suggesting a complimentary FUT to salvage a okayer looking density because the primordiums approach can only get you so far like other treatments which would mean nw7s are still fucked I reckon.
     
  20. H

    H Experienced Member

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  21. Tano1

    Tano1 Established Member My Regimen

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    So it can be a smaller FUT strip taken basically, but how about FUE? Would be a lot more desirable especially since some of us already have strips we're stuck carrying around.

    I thought everyone described this as an FUE procedure. Just trying to make sure FUE is still a go with this.
     
  22. mr_robot

    mr_robot Experienced Member

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    Thier business plan is to work with existing hair transplants surgeons. From a hair transplant point of view it is a compliment to FUT, the procedure is exactly the same the only difference is that the removed follicles are sent to multiplied. The size of the FUT will depend on how well the manage to get inductivity to work, still even if it is just 100x rather than the 1000x they were hoping for, 100 follicles x 100 is still 10,000.
     
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  23. mr_robot

    mr_robot Experienced Member

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    The interesting thing about this is that it implies 28 germs created 128 hairs.
     
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  24. H

    H Experienced Member

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    If 128 per cm is what the mouse is supposed to be showing doesnt that looks kinda bare considering the normal human scalp has around 150?
     
  25. NimuDash

    NimuDash Established Member My Regimen

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    People and you notice balding only if you have already lost 50% of your hair, so you would still look like a fullhead at this density.

    Considering the Aderans scandal, their questions are understandable. Aderans failed since it failed to produce the expected amount of cloned crafts and the investors withrew or something like that.
     
    #19 NimuDash, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  26. thecure

    thecure New Member My Regimen

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    What concerns me is the difference between the poster in this presentation and the one on kyocera's website, the former doesn't mention multiplication or mass production at all. For a complete treatment they need to multiply the follicles otherwise it is just a fancy FUT in my opinion, but the fact that 28 bioengineered hair germ resulted to 128 hairs/cm2 tells us they can. Are they able to multiply atleast 10x?
     
  27. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    We'll see. Stop asking yourself absurd questions and nobody is having doubts. One thing is clear, as I said in the post number # 8. They are more advanced in their technology. IMHO and as some users of the forum say, they will reach the market at the hands of some hair surgeons.
     
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