Koh-ei Toyoshima - A Basic Study To Clinical Phase (riken)

hellouser

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So did he just say he’s started clinical trials? Why would you not interveiw this guy in person, it makes absolutely no sense

Because:

1) I sent emails that went unanswered
2) I couldn't find him until the day of his presentation
3) When I did approach him, it was right before his presentation
4) There was a clear language barrier (you can tell in the video where I ask the question at the end about the clinical trials)
5) He agreed to meet in between presentations, but there was no time in between presentations anyway (as I mentioned in my 'intro' post)
6) After his presentation he was gone anyway

Even if I did get to interview him, I think it'd be a rather complicated one. HairLossTalk.com conducted an interview with him earlier this year but needed a translator for it.
 

centurie

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So they have already started clinical trials and testing it on humans?

The sound on my phone really sucks, but from what i made out at the end i think he insinuated that human trails will begin in 2 years time?

Someone correct me if i am wrong.
 

Hillman001

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Why is it on slide 36 it says it could be used as a compliment to FUT? I thought the whole point and hype of this was that it would make hair transplants obsolete and be a quicker and easier way of getting a full head of hair.
 

dermrafok

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The sound on my phone really sucks, but from what i made out at the end i think he insinuated that human trails will begin in 2 years time?

Someone correct me if i am wrong.
In 2 years no, before. Proof of concept is done.
 

Noisette

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Awesome... 128 hairs / cm2 , pretty exciting ! thanks Hellouser for all your hard work.

From your pics
8gAzSmf.jpg
 

bags

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Jeeeeeezes why do we now have even more questions than answers??

I know the science is important and great to understand. I love learning about it. But the only thing we all want to know deep down is when are human trials starting? and are they still on track to launch on time?

As well yes, why is this complementary to FUT instead of being a fully independent solution?? Maybe V1 they only want to transplant limited hairs to avoid potential issues?? Well thankfully I'm still NW1 Diffuse thinning so a transplant and RCH-01 will work for me.

So I'll just wait for @hellouser Shiseido presentation. Patiently of course. :-/
 

H

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If you have to add with FUT I don't see how this can hope to achieve the results I was under the impression this therapy would make. Perhaps they are having doubts.
 

Omega2327

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Y'all are looking into this FUT thing too much. This picture is straight from Kyocera's website and literally states that the primordium method "fundamentally solves challenges in FUT":

IMG_3456.JPG


Furthermore, let's not forget what Toyoshima himself said in the interview:

"Keiko: Thank you. Question 10: Suggestion from a user regarding # 8 – Some feel that hair transplants are detectable because natural hair lines do not usually have extremely thick follicles in the front. Natural hairlines usually include miniaturized follicles and “peach fuzz”. If you could control hair shaft thickness to varying percentages, would you be able to implant intentionally thinner hairs near the front and achieve a more natural appearance?

Mr. Toyoshima: This is related to one of the earlier questions. A hair follicle germ that is regenerated intentionally small, will result in a small follicle. As pointed out in the question, therefore, just as done in existing FUT therapy, our technology enables us to regenerate miniaturized follicles with 1-hair in the front, while regenerating thick follicles with 2- or 3-hair toward the back of the head. Therefore, we believe, we can eventually attain a more excellent result compared to the result generated by existing FUT."

@hellouser when you find the time, could you an official thread for people to post their questions about Tsuji/RIKEN's work so we can ultimately set up another interview with Toyoshima as you stated?
 

Jonnyyy

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No, I must of listened to that part about ten times in slow motion now lol.. I nailed it first time.

Anyway we know the clinical trial is 2018 OR 2019 depending on their weird fiscal calendar use. That much was clear before the the conference.

It was Hellouser that quoted Toyoshima as saying that the TREATMENT may be released in 2 years, when he asked the question...
I actually missed Toyoshima saying that during the presentation...

But all in all, they didn't seem to say that much that we didn't know. It was basically a detailed study of concept and the existing proof of concept in mice....

and then there's the slide below that says the next step is the challenge of establishing the hair generating stem cells from IPS cells.... But they told Noisette they had already done that unpublished....
So 3 obvious possibilities:

1) they shared more with Noisette than they did at WHLC, which is possible and slightly amusing.

2) They actually haven't done that yet and either misinterpreted noisette's question or deliberately told him what he wanted to hear to get rid of him. That is actually unlikely, they would've just ignored the emails if they didn't want to discuss things with him.

3)Noisette fed us a doctored screenshot to help us cope... No I don't think he would do that after the follicept disaster. I trust @Noisette

View attachment 69987





Anyway, I meant what I said in the other thread... I am gonna take a break from all this for a good 2 years minimum. I will log back on around March 2020 to see if this sh*t actually came through. Because that is that absolute soonest we will have any real Idea of how successful this stuff will be..
Sounds like @Noisette needs to send another email!
 

barfacan

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Why is it on slide 36 it says it could be used as a compliment to FUT? I thought the whole point and hype of this was that it would make hair transplants obsolete and be a quicker and easier way of getting a full head of hair.

probably because you'd need some kind of hair restoration surgeon to do the implanation of the hair grafts for a natural look. That's my guess.
 

NimuDash

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FUT + this may mean that you need FUT to reduce the amount of grafts that need to be cloned, cloning may be more expensive than regular transplanted grafts. I think what they are saying is that these grafts may be combined with regular FUT to save up time and costs. That is all.
 

H

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It could be that the therapy doesn't work as well as they thought and he is suggesting a complimentary FUT to salvage a okayer looking density because the primordiums approach can only get you so far like other treatments which would mean nw7s are still fucked I reckon.
 

Tano1

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So it can be a smaller FUT strip taken basically, but how about FUE? Would be a lot more desirable especially since some of us already have strips we're stuck carrying around.

I thought everyone described this as an FUE procedure. Just trying to make sure FUE is still a go with this.
 

mr_robot

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Thier business plan is to work with existing hair transplants surgeons. From a hair transplant point of view it is a compliment to FUT, the procedure is exactly the same the only difference is that the removed follicles are sent to multiplied. The size of the FUT will depend on how well the manage to get inductivity to work, still even if it is just 100x rather than the 1000x they were hoping for, 100 follicles x 100 is still 10,000.
 

H

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The interesting thing about this is that it implies 28 germs created 128 hairs.
If 128 per cm is what the mouse is supposed to be showing doesnt that looks kinda bare considering the normal human scalp has around 150?
 

NimuDash

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Awesome... 128 hairs / cm2 , pretty exciting ! thanks Hellouser for all your hard work.

From your pics
View attachment 69969
If 128 per cm is what the mouse is supposed to be showing doesnt that looks kinda bare considering the normal human scalp has around 150?
People and you notice balding only if you have already lost 50% of your hair, so you would still look like a fullhead at this density.

We'll see. Stop asking yourself absurd questions and nobody is having doubts. One thing is clear, as I said in the post number # 8. They are more advanced in their technology. IMHO and as some users of the forum say, they will reach the market at the hands of some hair surgeons.
Considering the Aderans scandal, their questions are understandable. Aderans failed since it failed to produce the expected amount of cloned crafts and the investors withrew or something like that.
 
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thecure

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What concerns me is the difference between the poster in this presentation and the one on kyocera's website, the former doesn't mention multiplication or mass production at all. For a complete treatment they need to multiply the follicles otherwise it is just a fancy FUT in my opinion, but the fact that 28 bioengineered hair germ resulted to 128 hairs/cm2 tells us they can. Are they able to multiply atleast 10x?
 

dermrafok

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We'll see. Stop asking yourself absurd questions and nobody is having doubts. One thing is clear, as I said in the post number # 8. They are more advanced in their technology. IMHO and as some users of the forum say, they will reach the market at the hands of some hair surgeons.
 

thecure

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I'm not asking absurd questions, absurd is the fact that there isn't a new treatment already from all these years of "research". Team Tsuji is the most advanced in the field no doubt, and I agree they are more advanced in their technology and don't share it all. I think they have the highest chance to succeed and reach the market, and when they will show the multiplication tricky part we will be 100% sure this will serve everyone no matter what norwood you are because even 10x is enough let alone 100x or 1000x. Let's hope for the best in the trials. I'm new to this forum, forgot to thank hellouser for the excellent and professional job, you are awesome.
 
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