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Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by paleocapa89, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Dolph

    Dolph Established Member

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    This is one of the things that doesn't makea whole lot of sense to me. Just like topical finasteride, wouldn't topical equol work by going systemic?
     
  2. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    The poster you're quoting is trans. She wants the hormones to go systemic.

    The goal with topical finasteride or topical equol would be for the scalp to get first dibs on the molecule, and then there's not enough left for the rest of the body.

    Further, I'm not sure if equol is dose-independent like finasteride is.
     
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  3. Dolph

    Dolph Established Member

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    I know - hence confusion over why a topical would be any better than her current oral treatment.

    Ah. That makes sense, although the scalp is porous enough that I have trouble imagining it could actually work that way. Is that the theory behind H&W's mysterious topical finasteride gel?
     
  4. Drogedagh

    Drogedagh Established Member My Regimen

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    source?
     
  5. Dolph

    Dolph Established Member

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    If I recall correctly, k9 has used both oral and topical finasteride with the same side effects.

    I just started topical finasteride and all I can say is that the sides I had on oral finasteride haven't gone away yet, but that would take a month anyway.
     
  6. recedingyt

    recedingyt Experienced Member My Regimen

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    As I understand it, this lotion has two approaches: DGLA (which metabolizes into PGE1) for regrowth and S-Equol for maintenance/topical DHT inhibition.

    I'm not worried about the S-Equol. I have that angle of this approach covered by oral estradiol and oral finasteride (I think, anyway.. I'm no expert). The PGE1 is what I'm concerned about. The whole reason they are using DGLA instead of pure PGE1 is to avoid classification as a drug. So, it stands to reason pure PGE1 would be even more effective. That's why I want to know the concentration of DGLA and the vehicle used so I can try to roughly imitate a "best case scenario" for this sort of approach.
     
  7. AlexieJ

    AlexieJ Member

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    I will definitely look into this. It looks promising though. It will be very helpful if there are before and after pictures. :)
     
  8. I.D WALKER

    I.D WALKER Senior Member

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    According to a Spanish forum Brotzku alleges he'll show pics of a young girl he's treating sometime in May.

    I don't exactly get why his "patients" enrollment numbers are so conservative. Seems rather stange?
    Well anyway this time of year May usually starts feeling a long way off.

    Last page.

    http://foro.recuperarelpelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=59970
     
  9. mr_robot

    mr_robot Experienced Member

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    I'm glad to see you guys have read the patent properly, you're missing the third main component: L-propionyl-carnitine
     
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  10. I.D WALKER

    I.D WALKER Senior Member

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  11. Follisket

    Follisket Established Member

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    [​IMG]


    Thanks for the info though. I'm also curious; how much do we know about equol as a DHT suppressant? Specifically, how and why could we expect this to be side-effect free? Or is it not really side-effect free per se and instead counteracts the sides with L-propionyl-carnitine, which - if I understand correctly - is also used to treat erectile dysfunction and low testosterone levels?
     
  12. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Finasteride suppresses DHT by preventing the body from making DHT, leading to more T and more E.

    Equol suppresses DHT by deactivating DHT. You still have all the DHT molecules in your body, they're just inert.
     
  13. I.D WALKER

    I.D WALKER Senior Member

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  14. Follisket

    Follisket Established Member

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    Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification. So it basically avoids that whole hormonal feedback loop with estrogen countering the excess unconverted testosterone that leads to side-effects.
    It really does sound great in theory, but then why haven't we given this a proper try yet? I see it's been discussed on hair loss forums in the past, so what went wrong? Too expensive, unreliable sources, or did people simply not get any results?
     
  15. mr_robot

    mr_robot Experienced Member

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    No, by itself L-propionyl-carnitine does not treat ED, used in conjunction with viagra it is used to treat ED in individuals with diabetes. Brotzkus' work with diabetes and as a vascular surgeon is probably why he is familiar with the stuff, plus it does lend credence to it being an accidental discovery.

    - - - Updated - - -

    By itself it may not do much, same way as PGE1 only produces peach fuzz when tested according to the patent. In fact together they may not do much either, it may be the L-propionyl-carnitine that acts as the catalyst and provides the synergy although I'm no chemist so I have no idea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well if it goes systemic then it will have the same sides as 5ar inhibitors, the difference being that whilst one reduces the level of DHT, the other stops the DHT from doing anything useful so whilst mthe echanism is different the end result would be the same.
     
  16. abcdefg

    abcdefg Senior Member

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    Yeah I agree it seems it would have the same sides as say finasteride if used orally. Until it has proof though I am not really going to give it much thought.
     
  17. SuicidalTraveler

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    We all know that DHT is required for facial hair development. Could this treatment hinder further facial hair development?
     
  18. Follisket

    Follisket Established Member

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    I don't know, depends on what actually causes sides. I mean, if it's true that the side-effects are really just the result of an increase in estrogen as a reaction to all the excess testosterone that isn't being converted to DHT due to 5ar inhibition, then this should take care of it.

    Testosterone would still be used up through conversion to DHT yet the latter would be rendered harmless. So no excess testosterone --> no estrogen counter --> no sides?

    Unless, of course, the side-effects are simply due to the lack of DHT itself, in which case - yeah, we're still screwed.
     
  19. paleocapa89

    paleocapa89 Established Member

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    not to mention that finasteride inhibits 5AR which does other stuff as well beside converting T to DHT
     
  20. Swoop

    Swoop Senior Member My Regimen

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    The biological action of equol is mostly centered on having affinity to the estrogen receptors. Both of the estrogen receptors are expressed in the hair follicle, ERa and ERb. It has a very weak affinity to ERa and a higher affinity to ERb, but it's still pretty weak comparable to estradiol.

    Equol doesn't directly have any action on DHT, if it has probably indirectly through upregulation of SHBG, which leads to a decrease in free testosterone levels and this in turn leads to a decrease in DHT.

    Also some humans can produce equol after soy consumption, more asians are capable of doing this than for example in the western world.
     
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