Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Estrogel is usually applied to the wrists or abdomen so that it absorbs well and changes the E levels. Are you sure it makes sense to apply it to the scalp? What doses do you use, what is the result? I often hear about the advisability of applying the gel to the scalp, but have not seen the results and evidence that it is more effective and has a local effect. If it has a local effect on the follicles, even in small doses, it should quickly grow hair like from HRT, but I have not seen such results.

Same reason why betamethasone works for site application when growing back hair, which comprised a pretty huge part of why I recovered from a significant level of hairloss in 2007/2008.

You're not trying to increase endogenous levels of estrogen with estrogel, that's not the point, the point is that just like betamethasone, with topical application you're monopolizing the receptor site either with an agonist (as in the case of betamethasone) or you're directly applying estrogen, preferably in its most powerful form (estradiol) to the receptor site to offset any influence by androgens and to downregulate androgen receptors (which estradiol does).

I didn't understand 10 years ago why my hair grew back so thick, but somebody here pointed out that certain corticosteroids increase estrogen receptor sensitivity by a significant amount. That's what incites hair growth.

It also follows the same principle behind using topical finasteride, yes finasteride does have 5AR inhibition properties but it does something else when it is merely present in tissue on top of simply preventing the conversion of testosterone to DHT in the blood.

I don't know how well understood it is, but I believe this phenomena explains why some people experience post finasteride syndrome, because the drug has the tendency to accumulate in the tissues of the person who is using it. For whatever reason whether it is site-specific DHT inhibition or some other mechanism, when it accumulates in bodily tissues, it stops the effects of androgens cold, which is why some people who take finasteride for long periods have serious dysfunction of androgen related organ function (such as one's dong).

This is why topical finasteride works, not because you're absorbing it into the bloodstream, but because it is saturating scalp tissue and staying there, which is why many people who cannot tolerate oral finasteride use it this way. The effect is the same without it going completely systemic.

It is also known that finasteride builds up in bodily tissues when taken orally and that even a low dosage can remain in the body for up to a month.

TL/DR, you're directly interacting with receptors when topically applying products, the idea that you have to completely and utterly destroy or radically transform your body chemistry is not accurate for many people unless you're straight up destined to lose hair.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

View attachment 158364

crown/vertex = roasted

I think that bica+finasteride(+met+resveratrol) won't do much here...

Would be microneedling effective!? Would E solve this? What about Eplerenone?

Minoxidil and topical finasteride, but seriously get your hormone levels checked before using topical finasteride or finasteride at all.

A deficit of growth factors is often to blame for hair loss and no amount of destroying androgens will offset that kind of hair loss, but like I said, I did a very aggressive PRP strategy 1 set of 3 vials every month for four months, and I had really decent hair regrowth.

I don't think you exclusively need PRP, but you need something to instigate growth factors such as what minoxidil does, which upregulates adenosine in the scalp and increases PGE2.

Don't do microneedling until you have a topical regimen that works and even then do not rely on it as a primary growth instigator. I think in many cases microneedling might actually make things worse if you have an underlying inflammatory condition.

 

[Almas]

Same reason why betamethasone works for site application when growing back hair, which comprised a pretty huge part of why I recovered from a significant level of hairloss in 2007/2008.

You're not trying to increase endogenous levels of estrogen with estrogel, that's not the point, the point is that just like betamethasone, with topical application you're monopolizing the receptor site either with an agonist (as in the case of betamethasone) or you're directly applying estrogen, preferably in its most powerful form (estradiol) to the receptor site to offset any influence by androgens and to downregulate androgen receptors (which estradiol does).

I didn't understand 10 years ago why my hair grew back so thick, but somebody here pointed out that certain corticosteroids increase estrogen receptor sensitivity by a significant amount. That's what incites hair growth.

It also follows the same principle behind using topical finasteride, yes finasteride does have 5AR inhibition properties but it does something else when it is merely present in tissue on top of simply preventing the conversion of testosterone to DHT in the blood.

I don't know how well understood it is, but I believe this phenomena explains why some people experience post finasteride syndrome, because the drug has the tendency to accumulate in the tissues of the person who is using it. For whatever reason whether it is site-specific DHT inhibition or some other mechanism, when it accumulates in bodily tissues, it stops the effects of androgens cold, which is why some people who take finasteride for long periods have serious dysfunction of androgen related organ function (such as one's dong).

This is why topical finasteride works, not because you're absorbing it into the bloodstream, but because it is saturating scalp tissue and staying there, which is why many people who cannot tolerate oral finasteride use it this way. The effect is the same without it going completely systemic.

It is also known that finasteride builds up in bodily tissues when taken orally and that even a low dosage can remain in the body for up to a month.

TL/DR, you're directly interacting with receptors when topically applying products, the idea that you have to completely and utterly destroy or radically transform your body chemistry is not accurate for many people unless you're straight up destined to lose hair.

You are advising to apply Estrogel, which is applied to the forearms on the scalp, right? What are the dosages? Part will remain on the hair, it is difficult to apply the gel to the scalp
Do we have any confirmation that this is a more optimal application site? I think hardly anyone passed the tests and compared both methods, theorizing ...

 

[franzliszt]

I didn't understand 10 years ago why my hair grew back so thick, but somebody here pointed out that certain corticosteroids increase estrogen receptor sensitivity by a significant amount. That's what incites hair growth.

Did you experience any sides from betamethasone, and are you still taking it? What are your thoughts on adding it a regimen of high estrogen with bica and finasteride?

 

[tato123]

Metformin enhances the antiproliferative and apoptotic effect of bicalutamide in prostate cancer - Prostate Cancer and Prostatic Diseases

Prostate cancer incidence and mortality vary dramatically by geographical location. Both are higher in developed countries. Some attribute this to westernized lifestyles of high-energy diets and limited physical activity with consequent obesity. Obesity and obesity-related diseases like diabetes...

www.nature.com

Guys check this out.

 

[tato123]

Mechanistic studies using flow cytometry and western blotting suggested that this effect was mediated by a direct antiproliferative effect in AR-positive cells, as evidenced by activation of phospho-AMPK with subsequent inhibition of downstream mTOR signalling and altered cycle distribution with a G1/S cell cycle arrest. Similar to our findings in AR-positive cells, several investigators have shown that metformin functions by activating AMPK with subsequent downstream inhibition of proproliferative mTOR signalling.17, 18, 20

 

[tato123]

From what I understand, metformin works by increasing the effect of bicalutamide on the AR receptor, as a plus, it may be interesting to correlate the 2 drugs.

"This effect is mediated by several pathways. In AR-positive cells, a direct antiproliferative effect occurs characterized by the activation of phospho-AMPK with subsequent inhibition of downstream mTOR signalling and altered cycle distribution with a G1/S cell cycle arrest. In AR-negative cells, apoptosis was induced"

There are several possible mechanisms to explain metformin’s putative benefits on aging, Gadde said. According to researchers, metformin activates AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), an enzyme that plays a role in cellular energy homeostasis, and reduces inflammation through the suppression of NF-kB via AMPK-dependent pathways. Metformin may also ameliorate DNA and cellular damage by decreasing reactive oxygen species synthesis through reverse electron flux, Gadde said, and by inhibiting mechanistic target of rapamycin (mTOR) pathways, thus reducing oxidative stress.

“Additionally, metformin may limit the negative effects of ceramides, thereby preventing myoblast senescence and improving overall tissue health,” said Gadde, who recently led a study on metformin for long-term weight maintenance.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Wow, great find Tato! I will definitely add now Metformin to Bicalutamide in a few months, when the Doctor approves!

 

[tato123]

if i’m not wrong ein use 1000 mg metformin, i Will think about add 500 mg for my scheme

 

[tato123]

As said in the study it will cause apoptosis in some types of AR receptors defective , this seems to be very interesting, anti oxidant, anti inflammatory , anti cancer, by inhibiting the NK pathway, and it has plus with bicalutamide Its a very intrigue

 

[tato123]

acts in the same way as rampamycin (an imussupressor used for transplant recipients, where it is proven that it increases life expectancy in healthy rats, and the same study proved in vivo and decreases age-related diseases, maintains skin quality bla bla bla)

Maybe in a very crazy thought here maybe metformin alone can help with hair loss.

 

[tato123]

Stimulation of Hair Growth by Small Molecules that Activate Autophagy

Hair plays important roles, ranging from the conservation of body heat to the preservation of psychological well-being. Hair loss or alopecia affects …

www.sciencedirect.com

"Hair plays important roles, ranging from the conservation of body heat to the preservation of psychological well-being. Hair loss or alopecia affects millions around the world, but there is a lack of methods that can be used to grow hair. We report that quiescent hair follicles (telogens) can be stimulated to initiate anagen and hair growth by small molecules that activate autophagy, including the metabolites α-ketoglutarate (α-KG) and α-ketobutyrate (α-KB), and the drugs prescribed rapamycin and metformin, which interfere with mTOR and AMPK signaling. Stimulation of hair growth by these agents is blocked by specific inhibitors of autophagy, suggesting a mechanistic link between autophagy and hair regeneration. Consistently, increased autophagy is detected at the entrance of anagen during the natural hair follicle cycle, and oral α-KB prevents hair loss in elderly mice."

Was i say , maybe metformim alone can help hair

 

[Norwoody]

I'd say give finasteride at least 6-12 months before considering dutasteride. Do needling for sure. I'd hop on OM as soon as possible just because I know that it works, even at low doses. Or at least do the foam because it really seems to help most people with vertex issues.

 

[tato123]

 

[KNemo]

AKG thread https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...arate-for-adipose-tissue-rejuvenation.129511/

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Considering we're not talking about therapeutic dosages which the estrogen gel is measured for, I simply apply as much as I need for coverage and if the sides are too much I dilute it in a distilled water/solvent solution.

I really haven't had to do that with the estrogel, so it really is one of those things just like minoxidil where you take your metered concentration (5% 2% whatever) and apply for coverage, then if you have sides, lower your concentration, that's really all you can do, that or apply it only once every other day.

Every day. I never go without applying it at least twice a day, once all over like hair mousse and then throughout the day at the hairline and formerly on the crown but that's filled in now. Don't worry about "wasting it on the hair" just mix it with a little minoxidil and that should put it into circulation. Apparently, Estrogel forms crystals when it dries so it will still be there so people might want to use a little topical to help it blend in.

 

[Almas]

Has anyone tried testing different areas of E application? What evidence is there that Estradiol works better on the scalp? Maybe applying on the wrist would have exactly the same effect.
If you mix it with Minoxidil, how can you be sure that it is doing anything at all ...

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Has anyone tried testing different areas of E application? What evidence is there that Estradiol works better on the scalp? Maybe applying on the wrist would have exactly the same effect.
If you mix it with Minoxidil, how can you be sure that it is doing anything at all ...

You would have to start one and then wait a couple of months. I haven't a complete idea of what is doing what in my own case but it's all together powerful.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

You would have to start one and then wait a couple of months. I haven't a complete idea of what is doing what in my own case but it's all together powerful.

E2 is absorbed perhaps up to five times more via the scrotum because the skin is thin, I would used it on the scalp as well since it might have localized effects too.

 

[Almas]

You would have to start one and then wait a couple of months. I haven't a complete idea of what is doing what in my own case but it's all together powerful.

Due to the fact that no one tries it solo, there is little information on effectiveness. I am always angry when someone uses minoxidil: it is not clear what is the effectiveness of each individual drug