Tofacitinib (jak Inhibitor Ointment)

Pigeon

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This doesn't work for Androgenetic Alopecia. If you have AA however that's another story.

The price is much considering you can get it at $300 from the USA with a prescription.
What's your opinion about all the JAK stuff?
 

Swoop

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What's your opinion about all the JAK stuff?

For Androgenetic Alopecia? It's f*cking laughable. I don't have other words for it.

The autistic but intelligent Martin Shkreli who launched the site pharma sketetons might indeed be right.

"Look in the mirror. This website took me half an hour to make, just 'membering a few moments from the past. Pharma is a wonderful industry that does great things, but trying to throw me under the bus is foolish. Let me remind you 90% of your members' CEOs could not hold a candle to me in scientific knowledge, achievements or wealth and entrepreneurial achievements.

90% of you are the same as you, Mr. Ubl, slick guys in suits who make a living spewing bullshit. Also keep in mind that I took a very low or zero salary at all of my companies. Your CEOs enjoy the fat paychecks they receive from price increases. I put my money from price increases into research. Half of big pharma CEOs could not tell you the first thing about science. Maybe focus on changing that before you point at me and make false statements."

He makes some strong points. Look I'm not saying that everything is bad in the research field, but clearly the system needs a lot of improvement.

So you've got Neal Walker as a CEO of Aclaris spewing something in the lines of this at a conference:

“We are going to develop a topical JAK inhibitor we know that a systemic JAK inhibitor doesn’t work in this indication. And there is actually a pretty good reason for that. You can’t
achieve the right concentration… When you think about the drug going through the superficial dermal plexus, it can’t migrate up to the hair follicle bulge. So in AA it works because it works at the hair follicle bulb which is deeper down and more accessible through systemic circulation. Drugs don’t normally migrate up, so you have through the opposite way and go topically through the
hair follicle, and we have actually shown this through pre-clinical models. ”

F*cking lol. Observations in humans totally contradict this as evidenced by the strong effect of JAK inhibitors in diseases like vitiligo and psoriasis.

But wait even studies have shown that a compound like tofacitinib does migrate up to the OUTERMOST layers of the skin in humans. And it does that RAPIDLY AND STRONGLY.

But hey Neal Walker apparently thinks it's better too look at a mice model and draw weird *** sh*t conclusions.

LOL-Meme-LOl-lol.png


For AA it's another story though, but for Androgenetic Alopecia it's bullshit. No JAK inhibitor in the world will get anywhere close to minoxidil.
 
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Cody1212

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$375 plus $50 for something for something that we are unsure of and it's shipping from some warehouse in China so who knows what the hell it is, is one hell of a risk!
 

Prada1

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I was on the oral drug for over a year for health reasons not male pattern baldness and I noticed nothing. Mind you they never claimed it worked for male pattern baldness but for a specific type of hairloss AA I think.
 

baldingAF

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Site looks sketchy af. Text goes from English or Russia but the contact says they're stationed in shanghai? F this man this is preying on the new AA studies that came out
 

Kev123

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$375 plus $50 for something for something that we are unsure of and it's shipping from some warehouse in China so who knows what the hell it is, is one hell of a risk!

Where do you get it? I have AA and mild vitiligo. If I can get it now, I will. I saw it's in pre-clinical trials in FDA, that's gonna take a billion years.
 

coolio

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I agree with Swoop. The capabilities of JAK inihibition are known well enough already. it's great for Areata loss and does nothing for Androgenic loss.

I recall some pictures going around of a guy who had both kinds of hair loss and tried it. He got a lot of hair back . . in a typical Norwood balding pattern.
 

Swoop

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I agree with Swoop. The capabilities of JAK inihibition are known well enough already. it's great for Areata loss and does nothing for Androgenic loss.

I recall some pictures going around of a guy who had both kinds of hair loss and tried it. He got a lot of hair back . . in a typical Norwood balding pattern.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27059729

See that study. Proves the statement from the CEO of Aclaris is nonsense.

"Drugs don't normally migrate up" lol...
 

paleocapa89

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27059729

See that study. Proves the statement from the CEO of Aclaris is nonsense.

"Drugs don't normally migrate up" lol...

I don't have the medical knowledge to make an educated guess here, but what if the origin of psoriasis is deeper in the skin. Wouldn't that explain why JAK inhibitors don't have to "migrate up"? I also saw cases of Vitiligo where oral JAK inhibitors didn't work. And other cases where topical JAK inhibitors did work. So it is hard to draw a definite conclusion here.
 

Prada1

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I was on Tofacitinib for serious medical reasons and can confirm it does NOTHING for male pattern baldness. I was being supervised by Drs. and had the real pharmaceutical brand. Im not sure the intent is to mislead or not but this is still a drug not to play around with especially when it doesn't do anything for male pattern baldness.
 

Swoop

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I don't have the medical knowledge to make an educated guess here, but what if the origin of psoriasis is deeper in the skin. Wouldn't that explain why JAK inhibitors don't have to "migrate up"? I also saw cases of Vitiligo where oral JAK inhibitors didn't work. And other cases where topical JAK inhibitors did work. So it is hard to draw a definite conclusion here.

Rapid decreases in numbers of pSTAT1+ and pSTAT3+ nuclei in epidermal keratinocytes were observed after 1 day of tofacitinib treatment (median of 332 pSTAT1+ cells/μm2 of epidermis and median of 23 pSTAT3+cells/μm2 of epidermis, Fig 3), indicating a rapid and direct effect on keratinocyte signaling. Placebo-treated patients continued to express pSTAT1 and pSTAT3 at baseline levels in lesional skin throughout the study


gr3.jpg




So we look at where keratinocyte are in the skin:

"A keratinocyte is the predominant cell type in the epidermis, the outermost layer of the skin, constituting 90% of the cells found there. Those keratinocytes found in the basal layer (stratum basale) of the skin are sometimes referred to as "basal cells" or "basal keratinocytes". "



11943434-Cross-section-of-skin-showing-hair-follicle-Stock-Vector-dermis.jpg



Enough said. Actually, this is embarrassing to talk about.
 

That Guy

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Rapid decreases in numbers of pSTAT1+ and pSTAT3+ nuclei in epidermal keratinocytes were observed after 1 day of tofacitinib treatment (median of 332 pSTAT1+ cells/μm2 of epidermis and median of 23 pSTAT3+cells/μm2 of epidermis, Fig 3), indicating a rapid and direct effect on keratinocyte signaling. Placebo-treated patients continued to express pSTAT1 and pSTAT3 at baseline levels in lesional skin throughout the study


View attachment 57413



So we look at where keratinocyte are in the skin:

"A keratinocyte is the predominant cell type in the epidermis, the outermost layer of the skin, constituting 90% of the cells found there. Those keratinocytes found in the basal layer (stratum basale) of the skin are sometimes referred to as "basal cells" or "basal keratinocytes". "



View attachment 57414


Enough said. Actually, this is embarrassing to talk about.

@Ted Buckland @macaroni
 

hairblues

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I was on the oral drug for over a year for health reasons not male pattern baldness and I noticed nothing. Mind you they never claimed it worked for male pattern baldness but for a specific type of hairloss AA I think.


This

if this works for Androgenetic Alopecia then why are all the people taking it for Rheumatoid Arthritis not growing back there androgenic hair loss.

Even the pics wit the AA that worked taking the pills--the guy with Androgenetic Alopecia and AA did NOT grow back his Androgenetic Alopecia hair.

If they are going to get Jax to work for Androgenetic Alopecia they are going to have to add something that is why its probably in experimental stages--this cream will NOT work and also no way to know if it would even work for AA...

Someone with AA is better off trying to get into a trial...I know they have them in NYC at Columbia Pres because when I saw my Dermatologist who specialized in Alopecia they were doing trials there..liek I saw the door for trials..but if you have Androgenetic Alopecia don't bother.

I am thrilled jax works for AA and they will get a topical one day BUT these meds orally are very toxic and people with Androgenetic Alopecia should not f*** around with them.
 
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Prada1

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This

if this works for Androgenetic Alopecia then why are all the people taking it for Rheumatoid Arthritis growing back there androgenic hair loss.

Even the pics wit the AA that worked taking the pills--the guy with Androgenetic Alopecia and AA did NOT grow back his Androgenetic Alopecia hair.

If they are going to get Jax to work for Androgenetic Alopecia they are going to have to add something that is why its probably in experimental stages--this cream will NOT work and also no way to know if it would even work for AA...

Someone with AA is better off trying to get into a trial...I know they have them in NYC at Columbia Pres because when I saw my Dermatologist who specialized in Alopecia they were doing trials there..liek I saw the door for trials..but if you have Androgenetic Alopecia don't bother.

I am thrilled jax works for AA and they will get a topical one day BUT these meds orally are very toxic and people with Androgenetic Alopecia should not f*** around with them.

Yes and I would add that it is still a relatively new but very powerful drug and to try to pass it off as a treatment for male pattern baldness is well irresponsible IMO. Even for research purposes. I was well monitored and tolerated it well and Im in Canada where they don't take drugs lightly.

For AA could be interesting but thats about it
 

NewUser

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Don't waste your money because Christiano said last October that their results with topical Tofa were had with mice, which have thinner dermis than human scalp. She said she and Jahoda created a special delivery formula using DP spheres grown in the presence of the drug and combined with neonatal keratinocytes and injected in vivo mentioned in the research paper. She said it will take expertise to develop a topical that will penetrate human scalp and layers of fat for the drug to reach the level of human hair follicles and remain there for longer than a few minutes at a time. Aclaris is now or about to begin phase 2 with ATI-50002. ATI-50003 (for Androgenetic Alopecia) is still pre-clinical development stages.

Tofa works for AA and likely because jakinibs reduce inflamation at the hair follicle. But as we know from Christiano, Higgins et al paper published October 2016, jakinibs do a lot more than blocking the Jak-STAT pathway:

JAK inhibitors stimulate hair follicles out of the resting phase into the growing phase. They also show the ability to elongate the growing phase.

JAK inhibitors activate the Wnt and Shh signaling pathway.

JAK inhibitors cause the activation of hair follicle progentior (stem) cells.

Tofacitinib (a JAK inhibitor) promotes inductivity of dermal papilla cells.

Tofacitinib promotes hair growth by positively affecting genes within pathways that are crucial to hair growth. For example: TGFB pathway genes, BMP pathway genes, LEF1, and NOTCH pathway genes.

“We expect JAK inhibitors to have widespread utility across many forms of hair loss based on their mechanism of action in both the hair follicle and immune cells,” said Dr. Christiano.
 
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Swoop

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Don't waste your money because Christiano said last October that their results with topical Tofa were had with mice, which have thinner dermis than human scalp. She said she and Jahoda created a special delivery formula using DP spheres grown in the presence of the drug and combined with neonatal keratinocytes and injected in vivo mentioned in the research paper. She said it will take expertise to develop a topical that will penetrate human scalp and layers of fat for the drug to reach the level of human hair follicles and remain there for longer than a few minutes at a time.

I have literally just posted a study that makes this all irrelevant. The study proves that oral tofacitinib does have a direct strong biological effect on the outermost layers of the skin. And you post this?

Why?
 

NewUser

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I have literally just posted a study that makes this all irrelevant. The study proves that oral tofacitinib does have a direct strong biological effect on the outermost layers of the skin. And you post this?

Why?

1. Mice dermis is not the same as human dermis

2. She and Jahoda developed their own DP sphere culturing method before injecting the drug in their lab experiments. Probably patented. Aclaris scientists will have to either develop that method or create a new topical delivery to penetrate human scalp. Who knows.

3. Geneticist Angela Christiano has discovered a legit treatment for at least one major hair loss disorder so far. Christiano is currently the Barry Bonds of hair loss.

Christiano - 1

Everyone else - nil



:)

Again, my advice based on the interview with Christiano is to wait for Aclaris to do the science, because jakinibs compounded with gel or DMSO-water solution and slathered on our heads isn't going to work.
 
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Swoop

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1. Mice dermis is not the same as human dermis

2. She and Jahoda developed their own DP sphere culturing method before injecting the drug in their lab experiments. Probably patented. Aclaris scientists will have to either develop that method or create a new topical delivery to penetrate human scalp. Who knows.

3. Geneticist Angela Christiano has discovered a legit treatment for at least one major hair loss disorder so far. Christiano is currently the Barry Bonds of hair loss.

Christiano - 1

Everyone else - nil



:)

Again, my advice based on the interview with Christiano is to wait for Aclaris to do the science, because jakinibs compounded with gel or DMSO-water solution and slathered on our heads isn't going to work.

I have proven that Neal Walker and Christiano are wrong, which is underlined by the study posted.

Easy!

Get them up on skype vs me. Maybe @Admin can set this up cause he had talks with them once. I'll be victorious.
 

paleocapa89

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Let's assume you are right. Then I must assume - since I believe they are knowledgeable people - that they know as well that JAK inhibitors wont work for Androgenetic Alopecia. We also know that JAK inhibitors work for Alopecia Areata and they bought a shitload of JAK inhibitor patent. So what is your opinion, why don't they say flat out that JAKs wont work for Androgenetic Alopecia. What do they benefit from keeping it in the air?
 
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