Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness | Page 26 | HairLossTalk Forums
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Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by DammitLetMeIn, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    And yo, you were going on about how IGF-1 is not in the scalp only in plasma


    GET THIS -

    the majority of IGF-1 distributed to tissues is from plasma.[25]

    25. Breier BH, Gluckman PD: The regulation of postnatal growth: nutritional influences on endocrine pathways and function of the somatotrophic axis. Livest Prod Sci 1991;27:77-94.

    So yeah, all those dudes with vertex balding HAD HIGH IGF-1 in THE SCALP!!
     
  2. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    MORE INFORMATION:

    IGF-1 and androgen
    Human hair follicles are targets of sex steroids. In particular, androgens induce regression of terminal (large) hair during the development of male-pattern baldness and transform vellus (small) hair to terminal hair in genital skin during puberty [55]. These effects may be associated with high levels of circulating IGF-1 [56] which directly stimulates the activity of the androgen receptor [57]. It is also possible that IGF-1 stimulates the activity of 5a-reductase in the skin and finally increases the local production of dihydrotestosterone converted from testosterone [58].

    The mechanisms by which androgens stimulate hair growth are not fully understood but may be mediated by IGF-1 from the dermal papilla. For example, Itami et al [59] demonstrated that androgens are capable of stimulating proliferation of the beard papilla cells but not the outer root sheath (ORS) cells. However, when ORS cells are cocultured with the papilla cells without cell contact, androgens are able to stimulate their growth. In addition, they found that IGF-1 mRNA expresses in the papilla but not in ORS and suggested the proliferation of ORS cells in androgen-induced hair growth is mediated by IGF-1 from the papilla [59].

    In summary, regulation of human hair growth by androgen is probably mediated by IGF-1 in the dermal papilla. In male scalp, high levels of IGF-1 may increase the androgen receptor activity and dihydrotestosterone levels and these result in an increased possibility in baldness.
     
  3. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Hypertrichosis in males is usually accompanied by increased body hair growth and increased body hair growth usually means increased male pattern baldness in genetically predisposed individuals.

    3) Growth hormones adversely affect the sebaceous glands causing them to become easily plugged. Insulin-like growth hormone-1 (IGF-1) is known to be increased by dietary protein (meat, poultry, etc.), and especially by dairy products. Research shows elevated IGF-1 levels are associated with more acne.4

    http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... puacne.htm
     
  4. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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  5. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Since the conversion of testosterone in DHT is IGF-1 dependent [20].

    Monti S, Di Silverio F, Lanzara S, Varasano P, Martini C, Tosti-Croce C, Sciarra F. Insulin-like growth factor-I and -II in human benign prostatic hyperplasia: relationship with binding proteins 2 and 3 and androgens. Steroids. 1998;63:362–366. doi: 10.1016/S0039-128X(98)00034-8. [PubMed]
     
  6. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Originally posted by the Doctor:

    docj077
    Experienced Poster



    Joined: 05 May 2006
    Posts: 727

    Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:57 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The crazy thing about those studies that I posted is that I've also heard that people who take IGF-1 as a supplement have increased vertex balding or just huge instances of hair shedding.

    I don't think I'd take it as an internal or at all until that's figured out.

    Perhaps, it cycles your hair and what you feel is hair loss is merely your hair starting to grow healthy again. I don't know and I'm curious to hear from people that have taken it long term.

    Not only that, but I'm not very sure if it even survives intact as an internal before it's absorbed.

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... f244029212

    You certainly seemed to take it seriously then...
     
  7. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    Jesus, you sure are obsessive-compulsive about this thing.

    You still have no proof that IGF-1 is raised in the scalp of balding men. You have posted no study that says that fact.

    You've posted that levels are increased in serum, some tissues, and that it is involved in patterning.
     
  8. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    Here's the problem that I have with everything that you're saying. In men with male pattern baldness the negative feedback mechanisms that normally govern hormone levels do not seem to be in place. This seems to be occurring in the majority of men with male pattern baldness. Whether it be a decrease in SHBG or an increase in IGF-1, the answer can not be with diet. It simply can not be, because if there is a lack of regulation, then the problem is genetic. "Hormonal imbalance" is not something that can be achieved through diet and it is obvious from studies that there is a genetic link as families with men with male pattern baldness have a higher chance of having women with PCOS. That means that the predisposition towards imbalance is inherited. It also means that changing diet can not signficiantly alter hormonal concentrations enough to allow for balance to return. That was made very obvious by the differing levels of hormones and SHBG that are observed men with and men without male pattern baldness.

    Any imbalance observed in studies is genetic, the mutation in the androgen receptor is genetic, and male pattern baldness is genetic. Altering environmental factors will not change the outcome as there is nothing that a person can do through diet or exercise that will lower androgens or any other factor enough to prevent or reverse male pattern baldness. You must remove 65% of the function of 5-alpha reductase type II just to maintain or regrow hair. Also, there are no studies that prove that decreasing IGF-1 levels with reverse male pattern baldness or allow men to maintain the hair they have currently. In a normal man without a defective androgen receptor the increase in IGF-1 in the serum will promote hirsutism. Decreasing IGF-1 in a man with male pattern baldness won't necessary do just the opposite and their is no evidence in the literature to allow such an assumption.

    That's why this whole thread is ridiculous and that's why even if there is a shred a truth to this whole thing we're simply wasting time, because trying to change it simply will not help male pattern baldness. It may help the health of the patient, but it will not stop the action of androgens in the scalp. IGF-1 will be there no matter what you do and so will androgens unless you either reduce their potency by only allow testosterone to bind by reducing DHT or you prevent their binding all together by inhibiting the androgen receptor. Anything else is unhealthy. Especially, reducing IGF-1 levels enough to make a difference (which it likely wouldn't anyway).
     
  9. roki

    roki Experienced Member

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    docj077 do you think there is a risk for the hair if i take suppluments that increase HGH release?
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Its called Dihydrotestosterone. Not DEhydrotestosterone.
     
  11. Pondle

    Pondle Senior Member

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    Shouldn't we just use the principle of "Occam's razor", i.e. our explanation of male pattern baldness should make as few assumptions as possible? The simplest theories are the best, or at least the most practical to test.
     
  12. stuglue

    stuglue Member

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    Does anyone take into account the age factor.We are all getting older.I would love to have the same amount of hair i had when i was 18 but im kidding myself if i think i can grow back hair to that era.
     
  13. abcdefg

    abcdefg Senior Member

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    Losing hair is not a part of aging is just some bodily process which happens a lot more in men. Most 60 year old women have every hair they were born with so obviously theres a major difference between and men and women with hair, and hair is easily kept until death for most women. Hormones do seem to make sense, and they i guess have a major role which explains the difference
     
  14. Pondle

    Pondle Senior Member

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    I think female pattern hair loss is not uncommon, but tends to be rather less severe and less noticeable than in men. Women's hair might thin, but the frontal hairline is usually left intact, and there's rarely genuine baldness.

    I guess the difference is explained by a study I saw that said women's frontal hair follicles have 40% fewer androgen receptors and 3.5 times less 5- reductase type I and II than men's.
     
  15. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    In the Mammalian Kingdom, we know that males grow at an extremely fast pace during puberty. During this period of rapid growth, ALL adolescent males become very active physically along with the increased production of testosterone and other processes. This is thought of as a preparation for male adult life. The physical activities, which are rough and often times include mocked fights, seem to be an essential part of a male’s transition into adulthood. The objective, it seems, is aim to polish mind and body coordination.

    But in humans, male adolescents are forced to stay sedentary for hours in school ENVIRONMENTS and are then subjected to mental stress at a time when other male mammals are physically and actively preparing for adulthood the way they do for at least a hundred million years. The treatment of human males can somewhat be likened to animals put in cages.

    When a teacher leaves the classroom, almost immediately boys become unruly, ‘misguided, improper’ and rough. These are, in fact, behavior patterns or traits being induced by the pubertal processes in adolescent boys. Learning academic skills were decided long ago by ‘innovative’ men who thought they knew what was good for men and society; that it is the ticket to success in the adult environment. But this is true only the artificial environments that man himself created. It supercedes pubertal processes that have been part of a transition into adults for millions of years.
    The questions are:
    1. How essential are strenuous physical activities during puberty in human males as these seem to be in other mammals?
    2. How possible is it that frontal scalp follicles becomes sensitive to androgens and seals the fate of genetically susceptible males because of this treatment?

    While it is true that school curricula involves sports with strenuous physical activities, it is not known whether these will be sufficient to compensate for the needs of the pubertal male in the following arguments:

    The arguments are in the book. Unless someone posts a good argument on this.
     
  16. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Not really. I just wish you'd open your mind for 5 seconds.

    Didn't you read my post. The vast majority of IGF-1 reaches tissues by plasma. You understand?

    Again, it reaches tissues by plasma.
     
  17. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    They're not being ALLOWED to be put back into place. Its too much for the body to achieve when the diet is working against it.

    Wrong. Genetics may play some part but it is the diet which governs levels of hormones.


    And it is also known that people from these families have an intolerance for high insulin and its growth like factors. ( i can show you studies if you like).

    This is WRONG. PCOS women can return to health via control of their diet. And YES diet CAN alter hormonal concentrations enough.


    Its not hard to alter SHBG levels. All you have to do is either raise or take down your insulin through diet.

    This is merely OPINION. Yes, male pattern baldness has a genetic element just like everything but it is the environment whic provides the triggers.

    This is inaccurate. Lowering IGF-1 will interfere with the conversion from T to DHT.

    This is not strictly true.

    No but there are studies which state that IGF-1 is at normal levels in non-balding people.

    Exactly - which is a sign of male pattern baldness.

    Well if IGF-1 is the triggering factor then its not such a bad assumption. Moreover, women who have hirutism who reduce IGF-1 actually remove their symtpoms.

    I TOTALLY disagree, and so does that guy Immortal Hair who has been researching hair loss since 1998 - longer than either you or I.

    Given that IGF-1 is said to create androgens via stimulating 5ar then reducing it would reduce/stop androgens in the scalp.


    Yes but we can lower its level and the levels of its co-factors.

    According to Immortal Hair it will. According to the studies it will. According to Gabe Mirkin M.D. it will and the IGF-1 expert many others.

    According to your inferior knowledge it won't. What makes you think you know more? You don't. These guys know their stuff and more research is being carried on in this area.
     
  18. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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  19. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Insulin influences circulating concentrations of free IGF-1 and IGF binding protein 3 (IGFBP-3), which in turn directly regulate keratinocyte proliferation and apoptosis.

    Chronic and acute hyperinsulemia simultaneously elevates free IGF-1 while reducing IGFBP-3.

    The development of hyperinsulemia and insulin resistance elicits a pathological rise in serum concentrations of non-sterfied free fatty acids which in turn has been shown to cause over expression of the EGF receptor.

    Both insulin and IGF-1 promote stimulate the synthesis of androgens in the testicular tissues. Further insulin and IGF-1 inhibit the hepatic synthesis of sex hormone binding globulin thereby increasing the bioavailability of circulating androgens to tissues.

    Additionally, sebum production is also stimulated by insulin and IGF-1
    Diet is a well known modulator of the systemic inflammatory response. One of the most important dietary factors which infuence inflammatory response is the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 fatty acids.

    Accordingly, the Western diet promotes a proinflammatory cytokine and eicosanoid profile that underlies the development of a variety of inflammatory disorders.

    Patients with PCOS who are often frequently obese, hyperinsulemic, insulin resistant, and hyperandrogenic typically maintain elevated serum levels of androgens, IGF-1 andlower concentrations of SHBG.
    Androgen levels can be lowered and disease symptoms alleviated by improving insulin senstitivty through weight loss.

    A large interventional study has demonstrated that diets rich in low glycemic foods reduced serum testosterone and fasting glucose whilst improving insulin metabolism and increasing SHBG.

    These endocrine changes are consistent with those known to promote normal follicular cell proliferation and to reduce sebum production.

    http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Fi ... rticle.pdf
     
  20. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    IMMORTAL HAIR INTERVIEW:

    Researchers point towards androgenetic alopecia as a genetic condition, what are your thoughts on this?

    Such a question is analogous to diabetes mellitus (type II diabetes), where it's thought that one-third of the population is susceptible to metabolic syndrome. In my opinion, this group is more sensitive to modern processed foods, particularly refined grains, starches and sugars. These foods promote elevated Insulin Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1), while reducing Insulin Growth Factor Binding Protein-3 (IGFB-3).
    Call it a genetic phenotype if you will, a large segment of our population are vulnerable to "genetic hair loss," just as they are susceptible to becoming a diabetic.
     

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