Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

docj077

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Here is an example of a genetic disorder that involves diabetes, low IGF-1, AND ALOPECIA. Low IGF-1 is associated with alopecia in these families.


1: Am J Med Genet A. 2007 Jan 15;143(2):149-60. Links
Autosomal-recessive syndrome with alopecia, hypogonadism, progressive extra-pyramidal disorder, white matter disease, sensory neural deafness, diabetes mellitus, and low IGF1.Al-Semari A, Bohlega S.
Department of Neurosciences, King Faisal Specialist Hospital & Research Centre, Riyadh, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

We explored the manifestations of an autosomal-recessive multisystemic disorder in several Saudi families. Recognized causes of progressive extra-pyramidal disorder and white matter disease were excluded and the neurological, imaging, endocrine, and skin manifestations of this syndrome described. The onset of these symptoms in these patients began in early adolescence and progressed more rapidly in males. All affected patients had total or partial alopecia, clinical and chemical evidence of hypogonadism (low levels of estradiol and testosterone); females had clear evidence of hypogonadism (streak or absent ovaries), and some patients had diabetes mellitus and/or sensorineural deafness. The constant biochemical abnormality was the low IGF-1. The neurological manifestations included moderate to severe intellectual decline and abnormality of muscle tone and posture with choreo-athetoid and dystonic movements resulting in gait difficulty, dysarthria, difficulty swallowing, and scoliosis. The MRI of brain demonstrated white matter involving cerebellum, brain stem, and cerebral structures, as well as abnormal decreased signal intensity in the basal ganglia with involvement of the substantia nigra. We conclude that the association of hypogonadism, alopecia, and persistent low IGF-1 is a significant autosomal recessive syndrome; it is prevalent in Saudi Arabia. We also demonstrate that the progressive extra-pyramidal disorder, white matter disease, and abnormal signals of the basal ganglia are common features of this syndrome. Sensorineural deafness and diabetes mellitus were recognized features. (c) 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Correction. The research up to now demonstrates that there is an increase in 5AR activity in prostate and scrotal skin fibroblasts associated with elevated IGF-1 levels. Increased IFG-1 levels that are borderline physiologically abnormal are also associated with high grade prostate cancer.

Or ----> there has been research to show increased 5ar activity as a reult of increased IGF-1 on DHT sensitive tissue

docj077 said:
No study that has been posted in this thread demonstrates a direct link between increased IGF-1 and male pattern baldness as no study links increased IGF-1 with upregulation of 5AR activity in the scalp. .

There have been a few. And as one would expect on a balding head, yes there was increased 5ar activity.

docj077 said:
Also, no study posted in this thread demonstrates an increase in DHT in the scalp associated with an increase in IGF-1.

No, but baldness is caused by excess DHT so the link is a foregone clonclusion in those studies where there is increased IGF-1 in bald men.

docj077 said:
Men with male pattern baldness may have increased IGF-1 levels in serum.

Indeed, and this is highly significant as it is repeated over a few studies.


docj077 said:
, but no study was posted demonstrating an increase in IGF-1 in the scalp.

Every follicle is attached to a blood supply. Moreover, one would assume the entire body has excess IGF-1.

docj077 said:
IGF-1 may also be involved in hair loss patterning, but the study posted did not examine the variables appropriately and dismissed the most important finding, which would have been the correlation between IGF-1 levels and the individuals place on the Norwood scale. .

Opinion. You claim to know a lot more than a lot of experienced researchers.

docj077 said:
However, one study in this thread does demonstrate that an increae in IGF-1 occurs in the hair follicle with prolonged administration of finasteride and is associated with a superior response to finasteride..

One should also consider that DHT is blocked in this instance so the higher IGF-1 would be irrelevant. IT is the capacity of iGF-1 to stimulate 5ar activity which causes the baldness

docj077 said:
Lastly, there are several studies in this thread that clearly show that decreased SHBG does not correlate with increased serum testosterone levels. ..

I can show studies which indicate both ways.

docj077 said:
There are however some studies that show that increased insulin levels decreases SHBG levels.

This is fact (for a change)

docj077 said:
There is no subsequent increase in testosteone levels associated with the previously mentioned SHBG decrease..

This is untrue. Bioavailability of testosterone rises.

docj077 said:
No study clearly demonstrates an increase in DHT production associated with hyperinsulinemia in a large population. ..

No study has been made. HAving said that, you could just look at the American population - case closed.

docj077 said:
Up to now, no definitive evidence has been given either way...

False. Increased IGF-3 has been shown to be increased in those with vertex balding across a number of studies.

Moreover, it has been shown to stimulate 5ar activity in DHT sensitive tissie.

docj077 said:
IGF-1 supplementation is known to cause increased hair shedding. ...

Not a coincidence, I wouldn't imagine.

docj077 said:
Take all information in this thread at face value. Nothing here is the answer to male pattern baldness.

I suggest you let individuals draw their own conclusions (as I'm sure they will). The studies have been posted and the results speak for themselves - as should you.
 

docj077

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Dammitletmein has now decided to not only switch his theory multiple times, but he has also decided to play the speculation game while ignoring the empirical evidence within this very thread.

His inability to prevent himself from jumping to conclusions is leading many forumites astray.



I recommend closing this thread permanently.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Have you failed to read again? Many of your studies say right in the abstract that there is no association or no significance with regards to the study at hand. I even pointed them out to you. You're the one ignoring the facts..

Dude, you're the one reading selectively. The RESEARCHERS have even commented on the significance of the studies and the studies are repeatedly cited by other studies.

All you have simply done is taken what you wanted out of them and ignored the rest. I have gone along with what the researchers have said.

docj077 said:
As far as I'm concerned, this is like debating with a 5 year old that wants his way no matter what and is simply afraid to admit when he's wrong.

Ditto, lol

The difference between me and you is that I am going with the researchers and the studies (of which there are loads) and you are simply trying to find fault with them.
 

docj077

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DammitLetMeIn said:
docj077 said:
Have you failed to read again? Many of your studies say right in the abstract that there is no association or no significance with regards to the study at hand. I even pointed them out to you. You're the one ignoring the facts..

Dude, you're the one reading selectively. The RESEARCHERS have even commented on the significance of the studies and the studies are repeatedly cited by other studies.

All you have simply done is taken what you wanted out of them and ignored the rest. I have gone along with what the researchers have said.

docj077 said:
As far as I'm concerned, this is like debating with a 5 year old that wants his way no matter what and is simply afraid to admit when he's wrong.

Ditto, lol

The difference between me and you is that I am going with the researchers and the studies (of which there are loads) and you are simply trying to find fault with them.

Every study that you've posted linking prostate cancer and male pattern baldness clearly says right in the results that the findings are insignificant. You're a lost cause. I'm not ignoring any of the study as an increased risk of 1.5X - 2.5X is nothing in the realm of modern medicine. IT IS INSIGNIFICANT FOR A CORRELATION TO DEMONSTRATE SUCH A SMALL ASSOCIATION. That's why the researchers say so in their very articles and that's why I'm so effectively dismissing them.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Dammitletmein has now decided to not only switch his theory multiple times, but he has also decided to play the speculation game while ignoring the empirical evidence within this very thread. .

The theory has always remained the same. Incorrect diet leads to hair loss.

You are the one ignoring the evidence.

docj077 said:
His inability to prevent himself from jumping to conclusions is leading many forumites astray..

Lol @ you being unable to handle being wrong. And lol @ your concern for 'forumites' when all your really concerned with is being 'right'.

I'm sure people can make up their own minds based on the evidence presented. This is not Russia or any other Communist state and people are afforded the freedom of speech as much as you'd like to play Hitler or Stalin.

You really should give more credit to people who use these forums.

docj077 said:
I recommend closing this thread permanently.

I recommend you stop throwing your toys out of the pram and get on with your life.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Every study that you've posted linking prostate cancer and male pattern baldness clearly says right in the results that the findings are insignificant..

And those very same studies say there is an 'association' and they have been cited in other studies for this very point.

docj077 said:
You're a lost cause..

imo YOU'RE the lost cause. And, If you really think I am I suggest you participate in other threads and ignore mine.

docj077 said:
I'm not ignoring any of the study as an increased risk of 1.5X - 2.5X is nothing in the realm of modern medicine..

So you think being bald makes you twice as likely to have prostate cancer is insignificant?

docj077 said:
IT IS INSIGNIFICANT FOR A CORRELATION TO DEMONSTRATE SUCH A SMALL ASSOCIATION. That's why the researchers say so in their very articles and that's why I'm so effectively dismissing them.

THEY quite clearly don't dismiss them though. they feel there IS A USEFUL correlation.

Besides - HIGH IGF-1 HAS BEEN REPORTED IN BOTH PROSTATE CANCER AND MALE PATTERN BALDNESS
 

docj077

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Somatostatin analogous that are given for particular diseases cause a decrease in growth hormone production and subsequently decreased production of IGF-1. Low IGF-1 is associated with baldness in patients taking this drug.


Another important phenomenon to remember is that topical zinc oxide increases the levels of IGF-1 in the scalp and promotes hair regrowth at the same time in men with male pattern baldness.
 

docj077

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DammitLetMeIn said:
docj077 said:
I'm not ignoring any of the study as an increased risk of 1.5X - 2.5X is nothing in the realm of modern medicine..

So you think being bald makes you twice as likely to have prostate cancer is insignificant?


In the realm of modern medicine, yes, such a number is insignificant.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Somatostatin analogous that are given for particular diseases cause a decrease in growth hormone production and subsequently decreased production of IGF-1. Low IGF-1 is associated with baldness in patients taking this drug. .

Of course if its TOO low then hair will fall out. It must be NORMAL.

Another important phenomenon to remember is that topical zinc oxide increases the levels of IGF-1 in the scalp and promotes hair regrowth at the same time in men with male pattern baldness.[/quote]

Dude, IGF-1 is ALSO linked with hair loss in the scalp. Many more qualified than you have said it. Get that into your head. It may be a growth molecule but it is also respesbile for hair loss if levels are too high
 

docj077

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DammitLetMeIn said:
docj077 said:
Somatostatin analogous that are given for particular diseases cause a decrease in growth hormone production and subsequently decreased production of IGF-1. Low IGF-1 is associated with baldness in patients taking this drug. .

Of course if its TOO low then hair will fall out. It must be NORMAL.

Another important phenomenon to remember is that topical zinc oxide increases the levels of IGF-1 in the scalp and promotes hair regrowth at the same time in men with male pattern baldness.

Dude, IGF-1 is ALSO linked with hair loss in the scalp. Many more qualified than you have said it. Get that into your head. It may be a growth molecule but it is also respesbile for hair loss if levels are too high[/quote]

Topical zinc oxide increases IGF-1 levels in tissue by up to 50%. That's far more than anything you've posted and yet it promotes hair growth.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Topical zinc oxide increases IGF-1 levels in tissue by up to 50%. That's far more than anything you've posted and yet it promotes hair growth.

If that was the case there would be NO baldness would there?

Look, you're claiming I'm sayig it whenever its the STUDIES saying it. ITs even on Wikipedia.

In fact Wookster first posted it on this thread.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't force yours on me.
 

docj077

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DammitLetMeIn said:
docj077 said:
Topical zinc oxide increases IGF-1 levels in tissue by up to 50%. That's far more than anything you've posted and yet it promotes hair growth.

If that was the case there would be NO baldness would there?

Look, you're claiming I'm sayig it whenever its the STUDIES saying it. ITs even on Wikipedia.

In fact Wookster first posted it on this thread.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't force yours on me.

Do you have a dissociative disorder? I'm curious, because it sometimes looks like two different people are posting under your name.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
Do you have a dissociative disorder? I'm curious, because it sometimes looks like two different people are posting under your name.

Are you a pink pussy cat? Cos sometimes it looks like theres one in your avatar.
 

docj077

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DammitLetMeIn said:
docj077 said:
Do you have a dissociative disorder? I'm curious, because it sometimes looks like two different people are posting under your name.

Are you a pink pussy cat? Cos sometimes it looks like theres one in your avatar.

So, you are mentally unstable. That explains a lot. Including what has been said by you in this thread.

Anyway, bedtime. Laters.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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Look, I found a thread online which asked an MD whether or not IGF-1 promoted hair growth or caused hair loss.

This is how he replied:

3) does it promote hair growth?
Possibly. In a study by Su et al. (1999), it is suggested that IGF-1
may stimulate hair follicle cells and has a role in anti-apoptosis
(i.e. self-destruction):
"IGF-1 may therefore be able to stimulate the proliferation of hair
follicle cells through cellular signaling pathways of its receptors.
Local infusion of IGF-1 into sheep has been reported to be capable of
stimulating protein synthesis in the skin. It may also increase the
production of wool keratin. The anti-apoptotic role of IGF-1 in hair
follicles is also reviewed." (3)

In another study by Philpott et al. (1994), he suggests that IGF-1
stimulates hair follicle growth:
"Both IGF-I (0.01-100 ng/ml) and IGF-II (0.01-100 ng/ml) stimulated
hair follicle growth in a dose-dependent manner." (4)

4) does it promote hair loss?
Possibly. A study by Signorello et al. (1999) suggests that a higher
IGF-1 level doubles the incidence of vertex baldness:
"BACKGROUND: Androgens are important in hair growth and patterning,
whereas growth hormone substitution enhances their effect in growth
hormone-deficient men. No previous study has jointly evaluated the
function of sex steroids, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), and
insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1) in determining hair patterning in
men. OBJECTIVE: We assessed the relationship between circulating
hormone measurements and both head and chest hair patterning in a
sample of elderly men. METHODS: Fifty-one apparently healthy men older
than 65 years of age were studied cross-sectionally. Head and chest
hair patterning was assessed by a trained interviewer. Morning blood
samples from all subjects were used for measurements of testosterone,
estradiol, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, SHBG, and IGF-1. RESULTS:
Results were obtained from logistic regression models, adjusting
simultaneously for all the measured hormones and age. Men with higher
levels of testosterone were more likely to have vertex baldness (odds
ratio [OR] = 2.5, 95% confidence interval [CI: 0.9 to 7.8] per 194
ng/dL increment of testosterone). In addition, for each 59 ng/mL
increase in IGF-1, the odds of having vertex baldness doubled (95% CI
[1.0 to 4.6]). Those who were found to have higher circulating levels
of SHBG were less likely to have dense hair on their chest (OR = 0.4,
95% CI [0.1 to 0.9] per 24 nmol/L increment in SHBG]). CONCLUSION:
Testosterone, SHBG, and IGF-1 may be important in determining hair
patterning in men." (2)

http://answers.google.com/answers/main? ... &id=157723
 

DammitLetMeIn

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Why can't you accept it does both?

Look even a guy from another forum recognizes theres evidence on both sides:


#17 08-20-2006, 06:50 PM
gettnthere
Associate Member Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 156


So no one knows anything about IGF-1 levels and hairloss...ive asked a few times and it just gets looked over.

Ive found studies that say both ways but Id like to hear personal knowledge not some in-depth study that says it MAY affect it..

ss01,u got anything on this or is it just not really known yet??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And heres a note on another website recognizing it:

More bad news for lactophiles: Harvard researchers have found that high levels of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) in the blood can promote male baldness. IGF-1 is found in cows' milk.

http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/sp ... World.html
 

DammitLetMeIn

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docj077 said:
So, you are mentally unstable. That explains a lot. Including what has been said by you in this thread.

Anyway, bedtime. Laters.

I made a joke which was intended to be as equally ridiculous as your assertion thinking you would realize this - obviously your not that quick.

Yeah, sleep on it, and read what the MD answering the questions online says.

2 M.D.s & a bunch of studies agree with me. Agreeing with you? zilch.


But I guess everyone else is wrong and you're right? yeah....riiiiight.
 
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