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Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by DammitLetMeIn, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Why is IGF-1 and IGFB-3 important in Diabetes Mellitus and Androgenetic Alopecia?

    Well, a number of reasons; firstly, steroid hormones are affected enormously just based on the types of foods we eat. Even processed dairy increases circulating IGF-1. Secondly, another element is refined vegetable oils, which increase levels of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase. Third, there is another, that being environmental estrogens, also known as xenoestrogens. One example of a xenoestrogen is Bisphenol-A, which is found in the plastic of water bottles. Just ten micrograms of this substance can induce diabetes in small animals. So, you can see there is an estrogen component here. Additionally, trans-fats and many types of vegetable oils increase levels of estrogen.
     
  2. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Help me understand this; what you are saying is that many modern processed foods contribute to both diabetes and genetic hair loss. How exactly are these foods causing hair loss or even diabetes for that matter?

    As I stated, refined grains, starches, sugars, processed dairy and even processed vegetable oils do the following: They increase IGF-1, lower IGFBP-3, increase enzyme levels of 5-alpha reductase. In addition, these foods promote a cascade of inflammatory compounds, while at the same time, diminish protective anti-inflammatory compounds. To put it another way, increasing Insulin Growth Factor-1 stimulates the production of androgens, the bacteria is affected by our diet as well, and poor ratio of such bacteria (good versus bad bacteria) can influence the production of steroid hormones. Refined starches, grains and sugars promote inflammation; they also increase the presence of microbial growth, which of itself promotes micro inflammation. As far as IGFBP-3 is concerned, too little of this causes an adverse situation with proteins involved with healthy cell destruction and survival. For example, a health level of IGFBP-3 will spare healthy cells of programmed cell death or apoptosis, while initiating apoptotic effects on unhealthy cells like cancer. In male pattern baldness, lower levels of IGFBP-3 will increase levels of the protein Bax (a protein that can destroy hair follicles), while decreasing the protective protein, Bcl-2.
     
  3. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    Negative feedback mechanisms have existed in mankind for a lot longer than mankind's current dietary choices. Feedback mechanisms trump anything that diet can throw at them.

    No, diet can upregulate an already genetically based process. You have no proof otherwise, because you have not adequately proven that there is a difference between hormonal regulation in men with male pattern baldness vs. men without male pattern baldness at the genetic level.


    That's right. So, the problem is inherited as it stays within families and moves from generation to generation. That's the very definition of a genetic disorder. Poor regulation of hormones and all other factors is clearly based upon genetic predisposition to the problem.

    No, women with PCOS require medication in order to regain control of their health and the majority require weight loss drugs. That's not what you consider to be dietary modifications. Simply adjusting a woman's diet does not restore her fertility. If you did any research, you'd understand this fact.


    Nope, you make the patient either hyper- or hypoglycemic by altering the body's insulin levels. Making someone hypoglycemic to increase SHBG will cause brain damage and allowing a patient to go hyperglycemic will encourage glycosylation of proteins and tissue damage. There is no possible way that changing insulin levels through diet will allow a big enough shift insulin levels to change SHBG without causing serious physiological harm to the patient.

    This is fact and backed by countless studies.

    No, the conversion of testosterone will take place regardless of the concentration of IGF-1. Lowering IGF-1 is a physiological disaster and is impossible to maintain as the adverse effects would be detrimental. The conversion is required and sustained through andropause and into old age. Obviously, the only way to stop the process is to inhibit the enzyme itself.

    Yes, it is true as that was the percent of DHT required for patients to regrow hair in the drug trials performed by the makers of finasteride. With that sort of inhibition, 2 out of every 3 men with maintain or regrow hair.

    IGF-1 can also be at abnormal levels in people without male pattern baldness. Case and point are bodybuilders without male pattern baldness that take IGF-1 as a supplement religously.

    Hirsutism is not a sign of male pattern baldness. Hirsutism is an abundance of hair growth.

    But, their symptoms don't completely vanish, which proves that removal of IGF-1 from the system does not cause complete inhibition of its effects.

    I've been researching and using hair loss treatments just as long. You continue to make assumptions about me.

    Really? Which 5AR enzyme does it stimulate? Where is this 5AR enzyme primarily located? Hwo does this correlate with hair patterning? I know the answers to all these questions. Let's see how much you know.


    Plasma IGF-1 levels are raised for a reason in men with male pattern baldness. You need to find the reason before you change the process.

    My inferior knowledge? Yes, a man with a website and a man with the same designation as me know more than me when one has no training and the other has the same training. <-That was sarcasm, by the way.


    By the way, for a person that was completely downplaying the need for modern and westernized medicine earlier in this thread and others you sure seem to be using it as a crutch recently. In fact, I'm sort of unimpressed
     
  4. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    http://www.freewebs.com/immortalhair/interview2007.htm


    Even ImmortalHair can see the influence of IGF-1. He has a lot of respect and has been researhing hair loss specifically for 9 years. Personally, I don't agree with his adovcacy of taking supplements but I do beleive that reducing insulin and not taking dairy products is a pretty good ide.a


    Anyways, I don't think you'll ever be moved on the issue so I'm just going to put it out there for those who can see whats in front of them.
     
  5. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    You do that.
     
  6. bubka

    bubka Senior Member

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    :roll: immortalhair
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *rubs some cooked fat on bubka's head*
     
  8. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Yes, diet can influence hormonal thing-a-ma-jig.

    Enlarged prostate glands have been associated with pattern hair loss(16). But male populations who consume high phytoestrogen diets have a reduced risk of prostate cancer development and progression(14).

    14. Effects of a diet rich in phytoestrogens on prostate-specific antigen and sex hormones in men diagnosed with prostate cancer. Dalais FS, Meliala A, Wattanapenpaiboon N, Frydenberg M, Suter DA, Thomson WK, Wahlqvist ML.

    16. Androgenetic alopecia and prostate cancer: findings from an Australian case-control study. Giles GG, Severi G, Sinclair R, English DR, McCredie MR, Johnson W, Boyle P, Hopper JL

    Traditional beliefs in genetics and DNA died after the Human Genome Projoct concluded. Try Epigenetics. It has the potential to answer the paradoxes that besiege current (or past) beliefs in genetics.
     
  9. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Negative feedback mechanisms can only work as well as they are allowed to work by their environment, i.e. diet.

    Diet CAN regulate hormones my friend. Just look at vegetarian diets. They reduce baseline levels of testosterone, increase SHBG - these are all long term impacts.

    Yes a genetic PREDISPOSITION - that doesn't mean your going to see an expression of the condition. High Insulin/IGF-1 is the triggering factor without which the PCOS would never express itself - just like male pattern baldness.

    YOU'RE WRONG. You're talking about medical research. There are oceans of patients out there who have have restored their fertility through diet.

    YOU'RE CRAZY. Take an example of an obese man who is eatingbread constatnly every day. His insulin levels will be high. If he stops eating bread and begins eating loy-glycemic porridge - his insulin levels will lower. He won't die - far from it - he'll become healthier. If you're being pedantic over my use of the word insulin then don't bother.

    You can continue believing that male pattern baldness is wholly genetic if you like. YOu can lock yourself in that cocoon. There are many out there who KNOW differently.

    High IGF-1/insulin is the trigger for expression of the gene. Think about it, it makes total sense. Insulin is implicated in the aging process.

    It will take place but not to the same extent as IGF-1 has been proven to be the stimulator of 5-alpha reductase.

    I didn't say to create LOW levels of IGF-1. Stop twisting things I say to make them seem extreme. Its very childish and is impressing nobody.

    Look, the idea is to stop IGF-1 levels in plasma from being elevated thereby reducing IGF-1 to NORMAL LEVELS. Theres a difference so stop being facetious.

    Or inhibit stimulation of the enzyme by IGF-1.

    Its true if all you are concerned with is inhibiting DHT by blocking 5ar. However, if you are lowering IGF-1 to normal levels there are many other co-factors involved in hair growth which will alter themselves to ensure that you may not need such a drastic drop in a lot of cases.

    EXACTLY. and look at what happens to genetically pre-disposed bodybuilders when they start pumping iron - they lose hair. I have even seen websites which state that IGF-1 supplement side-effect is hair loss.

    Lookhow many weights fanatics are on here and guys that come on saying they've had problems since they've started doing weights.

    Excellent point.

    Hirutism is body hair growth and this is very often seen in people with male pattern baldness.

    If their symptoms dont completely vanish its because they're still not getting their insulin low enough. Do you know how hard it is to stay on a low insulin diet. Try the RoseDale diet and you'll see what I mean.

    Many of us are just not built for grain consumption.

    Alright, you're 24. 9 years ago you would have been 15. If you were researching hair loss then, well...

    moreover, you're vieew is constrained by Western Medicine. Even when presented by studies which show a different tack from current dogma, you are unable to open your mind to accept them.

    The same 5ar enzyme referred to in the study with human scrotal skin. I am really not interested in a test of knowledge. thats really not going to help anyone get their hair back. It also won't prove anything.

    I'm interested in the effects of elevated IGF-1 on the human scalp/5ar/and consequent hair loss.

    We KNOW the reason. Insulin is high. And even if by some stretch of your imagination this is not the reason we can STILL lower IGF-1 in plasma via lowering insulin.

    Gabe Mirkin MD is a qualified medic (something I presume you respect) - look at what he says.

    The other guy who wrote an article about IGF-1 is an expert in the field- look at what he says about human balding.

    Immortal Hair has been researching for 9 years - it is basically his life - he talks about supplements more than diet but HE STILL IMPLICATES IGF-1.

    The doctor Kevin MD when asked about the role of IGF-1 even states there is confliciting information - if he can see it - why cant you.

    What makes you think you know MORE than ALL these people who implicate the role of elevated IGF-1 in male pattern baldness???

    I mean seriously, open your eyes.

    Im using modern medicine because thats the ONLY language you understand. I was using alternative sources but you continued to disrespect these.

    So I'm bringing it to you in YOUR preferred form. Even when I do you continue to pick holes where it is completely unnecessary to do so.

    Surely, even on a health level you can see lower/normal insulin/IGF-1 is better.

    You continue to thinkyou're right, when all these other people (including medics/experts and long time researchers) point out that you're wrong.
     
  10. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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  11. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    I intend to learn as much as I can about IGF-1.
     
  12. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Imma put this out there again:

    Results: Men with higher levels of testosterone were more likely to have vertex baldness... In addition, for each 59ng/ml increase in IGF-1, the odds of having vertex baldness doubled...Those who were found to have higher circulating levels of SHBG were less likely to have dense hair on their chest...



    EVERYONE SHOULD READ THAT.
     
  13. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Now then…what about IGF-1 and hair growth/hair loss?

    I called several doctors in town, and since I wasn’t their patient,
    they wouldn’t discuss the issue even in hypothetical terms (poor
    fellas have liability and malpractice issues to worry about, I really
    can’t blame them for being reluctant).

    My next step was to call my own physician and ask for a few minutes.
    I quizzed him briefly on the uses of IGF-1, and he basically confirmed
    the functions noted above. When the discussion moved to hair
    loss/hair growth, he said that there wasn’t much research in that
    area, and that he wasn’t very familiar with the research that was out
    there. Not much help, but understandable. He’s a GP, and doesn’t
    oversee hormone treatments – he sends patients off to the
    endocrinologists for that.

    He suggested that you make an appointment with your own physician to
    discuss your concerns, preferably the one overseeing your use of
    IGF-1, because s/he’ll be more familiar with your situation and your
    specific needs.

    My next step was to try to gather general information on the subject.
    Researcher kevinmd pointed me to the following excellent answer he
    wrote for you as a starting point in my investigations:

    Growth hormone
    http://answers.google.com/answers/main? ... &id=157723

    In his answer, our Dr. Kevin notes that with respect to whether IGF-1
    stimulates hair growth or promotes hair loss, there is no real
    consensus. He cites the following two studies, one which points to
    growth, one which points to loss:

    Su HY, Hickford JG, Bickerstaffe R, Palmer BR. Insulin-like growth
    factor 1 and hair growth. Dermatol Online J. 1999 Nov;5(2):1.

    Signorello LB, Wuu J, Hsieh C, Tzonou A, Trichopoulos D, Mantzoros CS.
    Hormones and hair patterning in men: a role for insulin-like growth
    factor 1? J Am Acad Dermatol. 1999 Feb;40(2 Pt 1):200-3.

    My next step was to contact my friend Jeff, an MD/PhD student at the
    University of Michigan Medical School. Jeff’s main focus is cancer
    research, so considering the attention growth hormones have been given
    in conjunction with cancer, he seemed like the guy to ask.

    In his response to me, Jeff noted:

    “To: Maggie <maggie_sedai>
    Subject: Re: Need Guidance!

    On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Maggie wrote:

    > I have a customer who wants to know about IGF-1 and hair growth -
    > specifically, if your IGF-1 level increases, do you grow more hair,
    > and if it decreases, do you lose more? Or vice versa?
    >
    > Do you know any good articles I could read on the subject?

    I've pulled two off of the U. Mich. library system and copied them to
    my home directory, with the punchlines highlighted in red:

    http://www.umich.edu [elided for Jeff’s privacy ]
    http://www.umich.edu [elided for Jeff’s privacy ]

    At first glance, answer seems to be there's not a whole lot of
    research, but what there is suggests increased IGF-1 might possibly be
    connected to vertex balding.â€

    He went on to note that though research appeared sparse, there were
    other avenues to try, and directed me to several other resources.
    Though they were helpful in terms of confirming that research is
    sparse and conflicting, I’m afraid they didn’t do much to
    definitively answer that portion of your query.

    Here are excerpts from the articles Jeff provided:

    Occurrence of the male hair pattern is considered to be an
    androgen-mediated process that depends on circulating testosterone and
    dihydrotestosterone concentrations as well as on local conversion of
    circulating testosterone to dihydrotestosterone in the skin (catalyzed
    by the enzyme 5alpha-reductase). Our data confirm that there is a
    stronger link between circulating testosterone and baldness, whereas
    testosterone has a less obvious function in regulating the relatively
    less androgen-dependent chest hair density. Androgen action stimulates
    vellus hair to develop into coarse, pigmented hair on the body, but
    prolonged exposure to androgen leads to regression to vellus hair and,
    frequently, balding of the scalp. Little is known about the specific
    function of SHBG or estradiol in male hair growth or hair loss, and
    the results of our study, in this respect, must be replicated before a
    credible conclusion can be reached. It is conceivable, however, that
    high SHBG levels reduce the bioavailability of testosterone and thus
    modulate its effect on hair patterning.

    Our findings suggest that high levels of IGF-1 may be associated with
    increased risk of vertex baldness. Substantial clinical evidence
    appears to support this finding. The efficacy of testosterone
    treatment on hair growth in children with hypopituitarism is enhanced
    by GH, the effect of which is largely mediated through IGF-1. In
    adults with hypogonadism, a combination of GH and gonadotropin
    treatment improves testosterone secretion and reproductive function.
    It has also been recently reported that GH treatment of GH-deficient
    men increases hair scores in androgen-dependent areas. These effects
    can be explained either by IGF-1 directly stimulating the androgen
    receptor, or by IGF-1 increasing local 5alpha-reductase activity and
    thus stimulating the local conversion of testosterone to
    dihydrotestosterone. It has been postulated that IGF-1 modifies
    post-receptor effectors of the androgen receptor, but this is not
    clearly established.

    […]

    In conclusion, we have found evidence that high levels of testosterone
    and IGF-1 increase the likelihood of vertex baldness, whereas neither
    of these hormones appears significantly or suggestively associated
    with chest hair growth. SHBG is inversely associated with vertex
    baldness as well as with chest hair growth, although the association
    is significant only with respect to the latter. It appears that the
    effect of SHBG, if genuine, could be explained by the involvement of
    this compound in the modulation of bioavailability of testosterone.â€

    Hormones and hair patterning in men: A role for insulin-like growth
    factor 1?
    Lisa B. Signorello, Joanne Wuub, Chung-cheng Hsiehb, Anastasia
    Tzonouc, Dimitrios Trichopoulos, Christos S. Mantzoros
    Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
    Volume 40 • Number 2 • February 1999
    Copyright © 1999 American Academy of Dermatology, Inc.


    “We observed that middle-aged and elderly men who reported modest to
    substantial vertex balding at age 45 have lower circulating levels of
    IGFBP-3 and higher levels of IGF-1 when controlling for IGFBP-3 level.
    Growth factors are beginning to emerge as contributors to hair growth
    and loss. IGF-1 is an abundant endocrine, paracrine, and autocrine
    growth control factor that promotes proliferative activity in
    epithelial and mesenchymal cells in numerous organ systems, including
    the hair organ.â€

    […]


    “In the hair organ, IGF-1 is produced by connective tissue
    constituents,10 and IGF-1 gene expression is enhanced by androgens.11
    In androgen-responsive tissue, IGF-1 may act locally to positively
    mediate the induction of 5-reductase by dihydrotestosterone.12 This
    action of IGF-1 may be consequential for the development of balding
    because conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone in the scalp
    by 5-reductase type 2 is essential for androgenetic alopecia.13
    Indeed, oral 5-reductase type 2 inhibitors are now used to prevent
    further hair loss and to induce hair regrowth in men with male pattern
    balding.13 Experimental administration of the 5-reductase type 2
    inhibitor finasteride results in diminished expression of IGF-1 and
    its receptor and enhanced expression of IGFBP-3 in the rat prostate,
    an androgen-dependent tissue.14 IGFBP-3 is the major carrier protein
    that modulates the bioavailability of IGF-115 and thus may also be a
    regulator of mediators of hair growth and cycle control. Our findings
    are compatible with both the direct association of IGF-1 and the
    modulating effect of IGFBP-3 on male pattern balding.â€

    […]

    “Misclassification of hair loss is possible because of self-assessment
    of hair pattern up to 36 years in the past. However, there was little
    correlation (r = 0.04) between age at blood draw (approximately 2
    years after self-report on hair pattern) and balding at age 45,
    suggesting that systematic underestimation or overestimation of the
    extent of vertex balding by elderly compared with middle-aged
    participants was not extensive.

    The association between IGF-1 and vertex balding was only evident in
    our study after adjusting for IGFBP-3, and the magnitude of the
    association for IGF-1 adjusted for IGFBP-3 was not as great as shown
    for IGF-1 by Signorello et al.2 Differences in the two studies that
    might contribute to the disparity in the strength of the association
    between IGF-1 and vertex balding include different IGF-1 assays, older
    average age in the Greek study, interviewer-assessed balding in the
    Greek study versus self-report in our study, and IGF-1 and balding
    assessed concurrently in the Greek study versus 2 to 36 years apart in
    our study. In the Greek study, adjustment for sex hormones and sex
    hormone-binding globulin enhanced the risk of vertex balding
    associated with IGF-1. Although not presented here because of possible
    noncomparability of hormone data among the 3 samples that we included
    in this analysis, adjustment for sex steroids and sex hormone-binding
    globulin did not appear to alter our estimates for the relation of
    vertex balding with IGF-1 or IGFBP-3. Despite these methodologic and
    population differences between the two studies, both the study in
    elderly Greek men2 and our study indicate that the IGF-1 axis may be
    important in male pattern hair loss.â€

    Vertex balding, plasma insulin-like growth factor 1, and insulin-like
    growth factor binding protein 3
    Elizabeth A. Platz, ScD , Michael N. Pollak, MD , Walter C. Willett,
    MD, DrPH, Edward Giovannucci, MD, ScD
    Boston, Massachusetts, and Montreal, Canada
    Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
    June 2000 • Volume 42 • Number 6
    Copyright © 2000 by the American Academy of Dermatology, Inc.

    The short of it? They don’t really know yet. The matter is still
    under study.

    Hrm.

    http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=175072
     
  14. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    One must remember that IGF-1 is hugely anabolic.


    Lets look at the facts:

    Vertex balding is increased with higher plasma IGF-1

    IGF-1 stimulates 5-alpha reductase in human scrotal skin

    IGF-1 causes the production of excessive sebum.
     
  15. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    IGF-1 and androgen
    Human hair follicles are targets of sex steroids. In particular, androgens induce regression of terminal (large) hair during the development of male-pattern baldness and transform vellus (small) hair to terminal hair in genital skin during puberty.[55] These effects may be associated with high levels of circulating IGF-1 [56] which directly stimulates the activity of the androgen receptor.[57] It is also possible that IGF-1 stimulates the activity of 5-reductase in the skin which increases the local production of dihydrotestosterone converted from testosterone.[58]

    The mechanisms by which androgens stimulate hair growth are not fully understood but may be mediated by IGF-1 from the dermal papilla. For example, Itami et al [59] demonstrated that androgens are capable of stimulating proliferation of the beard papilla cells but not the outer root sheath (ORS) cells. However, when ORS cells are cocultured with the papilla cells without cell contact, androgens are able to stimulate their growth. In addition, they found that IGF-1 mRNA is expressed in the papilla but not in ORS and suggested the proliferation of ORS cells in androgen-induced hair growth is mediated by IGF-1 from the papilla.[59]

    In summary, regulation of human hair growth by androgen is probably mediated by IGF-1 in the dermal papilla. In male scalp, high levels of IGF-1 may increase the androgen receptor activity and dihydrotestosterone levels and these result in an increased propensity for baldness.

    58. Horton R, Pasutti V, Antonipillai I: Androgen induction of steroid 5 alpha-reductase may be mediated via insulin-like growth factor-I. Endocrinol 1993;133:447-51.

    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/archi ... 38916.html
     
  16. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    Doctor, if its possible, you might want to get your IGF-1 levels checked, just to know for certain.
     
  17. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    No need. I don't have vertex balding. I have frontal recession. Something that is not linked to IGF-1 whatsoever. I also do not demonstrate any signs of increased IGF-1 levels such as hirsutism, abnormal skeletal growth, or an increase in muscle mass.

    That would be money not well spent. This is your theory and there are plenty of doctors in this world. Test your own levels.
     
  18. DammitLetMeIn

    DammitLetMeIn Experienced Member

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    It was linked to vertex balding. But vertex balding is part of male pattern baldness. Surely they're all interlinked....

    Doing something as simple as drinking milk (with Bovine Growth Hormone) can put your IGF-1 levels higher than they should be.


    I didn't realize you'd have to pay. Thought you'd get a freebie at med school or whatever. Never mind.

    lol, to be honest, I can't even claim it as my theory considering the amount of people who have already stated it previously.

    What most interests me about the info. I have read though is the ability of IGF-1 to stimulate 5ar activity.

    I could, but it would be fairly pointless as I don't actually have male pattern baldness.
     
  19. docj077

    docj077 Senior Member

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    Nope, frontal recession and vertex balding are not linked processes other than their similar link to dihydrotestosterone. They can lead into one another, but the patterning of growth simulatory and growth inhibitory factors is not the same in each area of the scalp. Not to mention that the two type of five alpha reductase are also not equally distributed throughout the scalp. In fact, different regions of the scalp are almost entirely physiologically different with regards to their response to hormones due to the differing concentrations of the type I and type II 5AR isoenzymes in the front vs. the vertex of the scalp.


    However, prolonged elevation of IGF-1 leads to physical signs and symptoms. This is well documented. Especially, in people that take IGF-1 as a supplement or people that suddenly have their level of IGF-1 altered.



    There is no such thing as a "freebie" in modern medicine. Everyone pays and everyone is held accountable for the actions of everyone else in the hospital. It's a sign of a well-trained moral barometer within the system.


    IGF-1 stimulates 5AR activity, but only in particular tissues. This theory that you've continued to defend has actually been around for quite a while. Unfortunately, an increase in IGF-1 is associated with vertex balding, but it's also associated with a good response to all of our current hair loss drugs approved by the FDA for use. Minoxidil, finasteride, and even dutasteride all increase IGF-1 levels. However, I only found the increase in IGF-1 associated with vertex balding in the studies you posted and those levels only give plasma and not scalp IGF-1 levels. No other study gives the plasma values. Instead, they only demonstrate a clear increase in IGF-1 RNA and protein production, which is what the studies you posted should have done. Doing an experiment that shows and increase in 5AR RNA associated with incremental challenges of IGF-1 would be the perfect experiment. However, the samples would have to be taken from different parts of the scalp.

    If the scalp levels are the same whether you have vertex balding or you are medicated, then we know that the increase is actually due to the hair follicle trying to upregulate 5AR in response to a decrease in downstream signals and DHT binding due to drug/enzyme and drug/downstream mediator interactions.


    Then, why are you here? Are you trying to sell something or are you just bored?
     
  20. abcdefg

    abcdefg Senior Member

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    So higher igf-1 is found in the scalp vertex?
    What is the difference in dht concentrations between the scalp vertex area and the frontal regions? Is type 1 found more in the front or something?
     

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