Swiss Temples Protocol is like Collecting All 7 Dragon Balls

[Hairloss23]

Wait what? Didn't we have this discussion before a few months ago where I swooped everyone his ***? Maybe ask Agustin or Wolf_Pack?

I didn't want to get into this discussion because I don't want to be a repeating little kid but since you forced me to do so now I will anyway. Let me drop the truth bomb.

First we'll start with swissygirls his characteristics traits. He is a full blown Nazi adoring Hitler. He has furthermore blackmailed a transgender on the HLH forums (threatening to release nude pictures of her or something like that). And swissygirl can't reply on public forums cause he has been permabanned on every forum. He has recently tried to get on here but I think he was kicked away immediately lmao.

Swissygirl is furthermore the highest moderator on a "private forum" that operates more like a cult. In fact it is literally a cult. They hold groupbuys and take profits from people (he and the admin do). What they do basically is that they sell the compounds with a high margin and keep the money for them self. They argue they don't, but they do. There is zero transparency. I found this an excellent post about that forum in particular although I don't agree that they don't provide proper chemicals; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=158889153&p=1412331273&viewfull=1#post1412331273. They do provide legit stuff however it's just highly overpriced and they take the profit in their pockets. Although these "custom vehicles" are overpriced nonsense jizz ingredients basically.

By the way not only me knows this, extremely many people are aware of this. Ask Ziom for example who is selling compounds with his lab in Poland for people, he will tell you exactly the same. He is a very known guy on the forums.

And this protocol? Well I don't want to repeat that again. I dominated the discussion on this months ago and everything was predictable for me. It's a **** regimen that is not worth the effort spent. Also, he has deliberately lied about his baseline pictures on his blog. I exposed that extremely hard. Too bad for him, google doesn't lie.

And how often is swissygirl going to cure Androgenetic Alopecia? Lmao, he said the same with CD. He even now talks about a cure being available in 2016 LOL. Man I think all these chemicals got the best of him through the years. He is a loser. A charlatan that sells false hope.

like I said i don't care what is mentioned about him, what I will say is that his protocol incorporates 2 aspects that have companies looking at them as future treatments, SM04554 and Bim, in both the results we saw moderate to decent regrowth over short periods of time. so when swiss does it and combines them why is it suddenly bunk? even if pgd2 was completely false and didn't work he would still be on dutasteride which would maintain while the other 2 aspects presumably gave regrowth? unless you're saying that by wounding the scalp you are eliminating all possible effects from the other 2 aspects?

 

[Kamino]

I've always had my doubts with this protocol, I mean any regime where you need to take sulphasalazine which can make you seriously ill and drink castor oil while stabbing your scalp and applying Lithium Chloride to get a bit of peach fuzz seems rather extreme when a bit of Rogaine would outperform it.

Didn't he post also a picture of him pre- dutasteride and faked it as his pre- prostaglandin protocol too to fool everyone. His regrowth was from dutasteride not UVb Sunburns lol. And where is his latest update? It's been a while, he's laughing all the way to the bank profiting off their pyramid scheme group buys and forced donations. That is low though, to take cash from desperate hair loss sufferers who do not know any better. You have all been Conned people!

 

[FWIW]

Like Hairloss23 says BIM and SM04554 were trialed and SETI will by trialed for hairloss. There has been some results. There is solid science behind it. I dont think P.H.G. forums intension is to scam anybody - the prices for seti and pge2 were very similar across all group buys when they were from ziom or from Kane. If they would do it for money from group buys, they would not limit the number of people in the forum - more people in groupbuys- more money to scam..

 

[Dench57]

P.H.G is indeed a cult. The emblem is the chemical formula for Setipiprant with a giant Swastika background. Unfortunately we are forced to buy our cult uniforms at 900% markups in group buys. However as a Grand Wizard of P.H.G myself, I am more than willing to involve any HairLossTalk.com members in an exciting investment opportunity to sell P.H.G memorabilia to the general public, for a very modest sign-up fee.*
















*This is not a pyramid scheme

 

[Swoop]

like I said i don't care what is mentioned about him, what I will say is that his protocol incorporates 2 aspects that have companies looking at them as future treatments, SM04554 and Bim, in both the results we saw moderate to decent regrowth over short periods of time. so when swiss does it and combines them why is it suddenly bunk? even if pgd2 was completely false and didn't work he would still be on dutasteride which would maintain while the other 2 aspects presumably gave regrowth? unless you're saying that by wounding the scalp you are eliminating all possible effects from the other 2 aspects?

I'm not saying that there is completely nothing to it. I'm saying that it's not worth the effort. Cause what I see is mostly peach fuzz for a whole lot of effort in a small area. And also N=1 proves nothing. I remember a few months ago that people would love to prove me wrong and they would do a log. Man, even hellouser promised me to do one! And look now, he says suddenly that he that lost faith and the will! Is it maybe because deep down he doesn't believe that it will regrow his temples? Enough said I guess..

But like I said a while ago, look some people are happy with PRP and LLLT too. To each his own man. If they are happy with that and it works it's good for them.

But let's not sugarcoat things and sell things like some cure or some amazing regimen while in reality it's far from the truth.

 

[Hairloss23]

I'm not saying that there is completely nothing to it. I'm saying that it's not worth the effort. Cause what I see is mostly peach fuzz for a whole lot of effort in a small area. And also N=1 proves nothing. I remember a few months ago that people would love to prove me wrong and they would do a log. Man, even hellouser promised me to do one! And look now, he says suddenly that he that lost faith and the will! Is it maybe because deep down he doesn't believe that it will regrow his temples? Enough said I guess..

But like I said a while ago, look some people are happy with PRP and LLLT too. To each his own man. If they are happy with that and it works it's good for them.

But let's not sugarcoat things and sell things like some cure or some amazing regimen while in reality it's far from the truth.

You are probably right, I don't think it is the cure for everyone but I think it is the only thing at the moment that can actually grow hair other than Minoxidil. That in itself is a good enough reason to at least take it into account. People want to have their native hair back and for some this might be it. Everyone always says to give finasteride and Min 6-12 months before determining a result. Whats to say it is not the same with this? 12 months ago Swiss hadn't even started his protocol, no one else has even tried to follow him properly until protocol was released in September and even then a lot of the superior components for it only just reached people in December/January. I started the entire protocol just under 2 months ago, I feel like I am seeing decent early results and if I get anywhere near to what Swiss had in even his final pic I will be pretty happy. So when I see guys on here saying it must be **** because in the space of 2/3 months no one else has posted pics at Swiss' level of course it's annoying.

 

[FWIW]

You are probably right, I don't think it is the cure for everyone but I think it is the only thing at the moment that can actually grow hair other than Minoxidil. That in itself is a good enough reason to at least take it into account. People want to have their native hair back and for some this might be it. Everyone always says to give finasteride and Min 6-12 months before determining a result. Whats to say it is not the same with this? 12 months ago Swiss hadn't even started his protocol, no one else has even tried to follow him properly until protocol was released in September and even then a lot of the superior components for it only just reached people in December/January. I started the entire protocol just under 2 months ago, I feel like I am seeing decent early results and if I get anywhere near to what Swiss had in even his final pic I will be pretty happy. So when I see guys on here saying it must be **** because in the space of 2/3 months no one else has posted pics at Swiss' level of course it's annoying.

Yeah, but its not 2 months. People from various groupbuys got seti in august/september

 

[firstpost]

Yeah, but its not 2 months. People from various groupbuys got seti in august/september

They used it underdosed orally. Even then they reported reduced shedding. Majority got it around december.

 

[Hairloss23]

Yeah, but its not 2 months. People from various groupbuys got seti in august/september

Seti is not PGE2, the first PGE2 GB got through late december to january.

 

[Swoop]

You are probably right, I don't think it is the cure for everyone but I think it is the only thing at the moment that can actually grow hair other than Minoxidil. That in itself is a good enough reason to at least take it into account. People want to have their native hair back and for some this might be it. Everyone always says to give finasteride and Min 6-12 months before determining a result. Whats to say it is not the same with this? 12 months ago Swiss hadn't even started his protocol, no one else has even tried to follow him properly until protocol was released in September and even then a lot of the superior components for it only just reached people in December/January. I started the entire protocol just under 2 months ago, I feel like I am seeing decent early results and if I get anywhere near to what Swiss had in even his final pic I will be pretty happy. So when I see guys on here saying it must be **** because in the space of 2/3 months no one else has posted pics at Swiss' level of course it's annoying.

Well what you got to understand and I think what many people see is the following. A big mouth from swissygirl, but he isn't living up to the expectations he has set. I mean why doesn't he fix some pictures RIGHT NOW? From different angles and from far away? He is spending so much time on the forums and rubbing his topicals on his scalp... Some pictures shouldn't be a problem right? What is his excuse?

Bottom line is many people see just a regimen with a whole lot of stuff for very mediocre results. That is how most people think. It's peach fuzz after all. Had it continuously improved it would have been somewhat different but it would still be N=1. And that's what people argued and hoped for too (the improvement), yet we see none of that. He doesn't put up pictures because he can't meet expectations and he can't handle the backlash. Let's be honest he would love to flaunt with good results, if not only to throw it in my face.

Perhaps you can do it better Hairloss23, why don't you start giving out your baseline pictures right now and start your log now? Show us the impressive regrowth you are going to have in the next months. Act like a man, not a girl like swissygirl.

Besides that AFAIK one of his biggest supporters on the french forum also admitted it was a failure after all and didn't meet up expectations? The big topic got deleted there at the french forum?

Hairloss23, it all comes down to evidence, and it's damn weak to non-existent at all. Hypotheses don't mean sh*t either when it's not translated into results.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

As someone who has no horse in this race,

I think if seti/pge2/etc are any good, we should see plenty of pictures demonstrating substantial progress by the middle of 2016.

Swoop is unquestionably very informed on these topics. He has been arguing eloquently and effectively for months that the prostaglandin theory is nonsense, and thus seti+PGE2 should fail. His hypothesis makes testable predictions: nearly nobody will stop male pattern baldness with seti alone. Hairloss23 points out that most people on the protocol only get their stuff in the last few months of 2015. Therefore I think waiting until the middle of 2016 to reach a collective verdict is appropriate.

Alternatively some may just wait until the clinical trial results for seti are released, I don't know when that's going to be though. Personally I don't even know if it's being trialled topically or orally, at what dosage, and in which vehicle.

All that said I don't understand why:

1) Posters hate swisstemples. If he's actually a nazi then that's a good reason to hate him, but that's not why people hate him. In general on the internet, people love tearing down anybody who has a scintilla of authority. This is true for all forums, but it's probably worse for men's health since it attracts more miserable people to the community.
The fact is swisstemples isn't actively harming anybody. He's not forcing anybody into these group buys, he's not assuming a monopoly of supply lines, he's not crowding out other voices. Everybody has the option to not use his suggestions without harm. Everybody.

2) Opposition to alternative treatments. Yes, ideally, we would rely on proven science, but if we all wait for proven science for all of our problems, we could end up dead, broken, and miserable. If you have money, it's worth it to take risks.

Personally I would love it if swoop is wrong, and come 2020 I can apply a lotion/spray of seti+bimatoprost for $100/month forever and never worry about male pattern baldness again. But real life isn't a fairy tale.

 

[parisienne]

one of his biggest supporters on the french forum also admitted it was a failure after all and didn't meet up expectations? The big topic got deleted there at the french forum?

Assuming that the guy you're talking about is Nix51, I can confirm that the big topic got deleted, although I genuinely thought it's been censored. Not much happens on the French forum..

 

[Swoop]

@David_MPN,

I think you put two different things at play here. We got the prostaglandin hypothesis running from Kythera (Cotsarelis et al.), they argue that PGD2 works highly upstream after AR activation. At the very least they argue that PGD2 plays a very central role in the miniaturizing process. Yes, I do sadly think that they are incorrect in their hypothesis and that setipiprant will never reach the market. Simply because it seems far worse than intervention of the androgen/AR angle gives. And remember it's not a prostaglandin theory, it's a hypothesis. I have a strong opinion about setipiprant because observational clues confirm already to me that something like finasteride is just way better than any DP2 antagonist (even the strongest ones). I already explained this stuff in detail many times. I would even bet my money that setipiprant isn't going to reach the market and the hypothesis will fail. And I really hate to say that man.. Personally I would love to have another maintenance angle too that is as good as the androgen/AR angle. Cotsarelis et al. have also have hypothesized about PGE2 being important in their papers for pro-growth, indeed. Bimatoprost = PGF2A though and this isn't the same as PGE2. I didn't really argue that nobody will stop male pattern baldness with setipiprant alone, some people seem to stop Androgenetic Alopecia by pumpkin seed oil as gauged by anecdotal evidence . I just said that it's way worse compared with the androgen/AR angle, that their hypothesis is incorrect and I'm highly sure at this point that it will never reach commercial status. We will see..

This isn't about that in particular though. It's a whole different story. This is about a guy coming in making bold claims and failing to live up to them. He is selling the dream, but there is no dream to be seen. Sure he utilizes the prostaglandin angle but in pure sense he uses a kitchen sink approach where the biological action of his regimen is far broader than only touching upon prostaglandins.

Assuming that the guy you're talking about is Nix51, I can confirm that the big topic got deleted, although I genuinely thought it's been censored. Not much happens on the French forum..

Thanks. I have glanced like two or three times I don't remember if it's him but there was a topic starter that was extremely excited and supporting of the regimen. Having looked at the topic I think he was following the regimen from the start. He was very active there. Later on he seemed to get backlash from members there and to me it seemed he admitted in the end that it didn't live up to his expectations? Forgive me though I might be wrong, my French is pretty damn bad, we had it in high school but I s*cked balls at it and google translate wasn't really accurate either .

 

[parisienne]

Thanks. I have glanced like two or three times I don't remember if it's him but there was a topic starter that was extremely excited and supporting of the regimen. Having looked at the topic I think he was following the regimen from the start. He was very active there. Later on he seemed to get backlash from members there and to me it seemed he admitted in the end that it didn't live up to his expectations? Forgive me though I might be wrong, my French is pretty damn bad, we had it in high school but I s*cked balls at it and google translate wasn't really accurate either .

Yeah it's him. Checked his profile, he has a "swiss progress" album. I have to say I did not follow the conversation until the end because of this "no you're crazy i'm not trying this dangerous stuff" attitude, so I can't tell if he stopped posting because of him lacking results. The consensus on the French forum is hostility towards the "new experimental stuff", and the admins don't want to encourage it neither, so I suspected censorship. Which is why I ended up here. Google translate indeed sucks, et les langues ne s'oublient jamais vraiment, il suffit de pratiquer

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Ca fait du bien de lire du francais, merci ma cher.

 

[parisienne]

Ca fait du bien de lire du francais, merci ma cher.

Chère* avec grand plaisir !

 

[I.D WALKER]

Rien de plus musical que le son fille Francais qui parlant librement son esprit.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Swoop,

What do you think of the early anecdotal reports of progress from setipiprant, are these people just followers of Kane or swisstemples trying to boost demand?
In particular it seems like a lot of people report decreased itch. I might be seeing a bias but that seems to be the most common anecdote.

 

[firstpost]

@David_MPN,

I think you put two different things at play here. We got the prostaglandin hypothesis running from Kythera (Cotsarelis et al.), they argue that PGD2 works highly upstream after AR activation. At the very least they argue that PGD2 plays a very central role in the miniaturizing process. Yes, I do sadly think that they are incorrect in their hypothesis and that setipiprant will never reach the market. Simply because it seems far worse than intervention of the androgen/AR angle gives. And remember it's not a prostaglandin theory, it's a hypothesis. I have a strong opinion about setipiprant because observational clues confirm already to me that something like finasteride is just way better than any DP2 antagonist (even the strongest ones). I already explained this stuff in detail many times. I would even bet my money that setipiprant isn't going to reach the market and the hypothesis will fail. And I really hate to say that man.. Personally I would love to have another maintenance angle too that is as good as the androgen/AR angle. Cotsarelis et al. have also have hypothesized about PGE2 being important in their papers for pro-growth, indeed. Bimatoprost = PGF2A though and this isn't the same as PGE2. I didn't really argue that nobody will stop male pattern baldness with setipiprant alone, some people seem to stop Androgenetic Alopecia by pumpkin seed oil as gauged by anecdotal evidence . I just said that it's way worse compared with the androgen/AR angle, that their hypothesis is incorrect and I'm highly sure at this point that it will never reach commercial status. We will see..

This isn't about that in particular though. It's a whole different story. This is about a guy coming in making bold claims and failing to live up to them. He is selling the dream, but there is no dream to be seen. Sure he utilizes the prostaglandin angle but in pure sense he uses a kitchen sink approach where the biological action of his regimen is far broader than only touching upon prostaglandins.



Thanks. I have glanced like two or three times I don't remember if it's him but there was a topic starter that was extremely excited and supporting of the regimen. Having looked at the topic I think he was following the regimen from the start. He was very active there. Later on he seemed to get backlash from members there and to me it seemed he admitted in the end that it didn't live up to his expectations? Forgive me though I might be wrong, my French is pretty damn bad, we had it in high school but I s*cked balls at it and google translate wasn't really accurate either .

So, basically, without any concrete proof or data, you disagree with actual hair scientists and researchers on their hypothesis. I'm sorry, but nobody cares what YOU think.

Your beef with swiss is getting out of hand. This section is about results from experimental treatments, not what some arm chair scientist thinks.
If a was a regular member trying to find info about new treatments beyond finasteride/minoxidil, i would be mad. I wouldn't wanna read the garbage you wrote disguised as facts.
I want actual people's experiences who tried it and i wanna see the results. You offer none of these.

So far, the results from pg protocol have been positive. Will it work in the long run and how well? We gonna find out, with pictures and all. That's what this forum is all about.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

So, basically, without any concrete proof or data, you disagree with actual hair scientists and researchers on their hypothesis. I'm sorry, but nobody cares what YOU think.

Your beef with swiss is getting out of hand. This section is about results from experimental treatments, not what some arm chair scientist thinks.
If a was a regular member trying to find info about new treatments beyond finasteride/minoxidil, i would be mad. I wouldn't wanna read the garbage you wrote disguised as facts.
I want actual people's experiences who tried it and i wanna see the results. You offer none of these.

So far, the results from pg protocol have been positive. Will it work in the long run and how well? We gonna find out, with pictures and all. That's what this forum is all about.

Just FYI that was not the first post swoop ever made. He's actually very knowledgeable on these issues, knowledge which extends beyond any particular individual post.

I care what he thinks. I think a lot of people care, if you pay attention to the forums for a few weeks you'll notice that swoop's posts are more likely to be quoted regularly, so people are reading and thinking about what he writes.

Finally, this isn't Boston Red Sox versus New York Yankees. It's a scientific debate. In a few years we will know definitively whether or not Swoop or SwissTemples is correct and to what extent, since there are real trials happening.