Swiss Temples Protocol is like Collecting All 7 Dragon Balls

[Hairloss23]

It's a very good point that OC459 and TM30089 have had no impact on hairloss.

OC was useful, I know a few guys who use/ used to use it who had success, the reason it is barely spoke about any more is because Seti is considerably better. TM is dangerous, avoid that ****, it's never been tested on humans and apparently has a half life of 13 years.

 

[firstpost]

It's a very good point that OC459 and TM30089 have had no impact on hairloss.

With that said, I had some thinking in the car as to how DHT might not be the whole story. Behold some intellectual masturbation coming up

It relates to female pattern hairloss -- it doesn't respond to finasteride, at all. Interestingly, though it doesn't look like standard male pattern baldness with the receding hairline and temple and crown, it does resemble diffuse thinning, since that's what female pattern hairloss: the hair is distributed in the same manner, but more diffuse. On the other hand, I've seen photos on this forum of people with receding hairlines, but not diffuse hairloss.

I think this hints (demonstrates?) at two separate mechanisms, where the androgenic mechanism only hits men, and can accelerate diffuse hairloss.

You once wrote that you believe that somebody on both dutasteride and RU58851 cannot lose hair (pretty sure that was you). Yet, based on the clinical trials of women on finasteride, that might not apply to women with diffuse thinning. So something else might not work, I'm not necessarily pointing to DP2 antagonists.

If TM and OC were so potent, why didn't Kythera purchase them instead? Just because they block CRTh2 receptors doesn't mean they are the same.
There are other factors, such as how long they block, side effects, efficiency, etc. Seti was better.

Now compared to the new breed of pgd2 blockers such as ADC3680, seti is probably garbage. We will have to see.

And what are you here for anyways? Looking for new hairloss treatments or kiss *** of long time posters?

 

[Swoop]

I appreciate your interventions Swoop but if you could stop insulting the guy using my gender, that'd be great :mrgreen:

Will do unk:.

It's a very good point that OC459 and TM30089 have had no impact on hairloss.

With that said, I had some thinking in the car as to how DHT might not be the whole story. Behold some intellectual masturbation coming up

It relates to female pattern hairloss -- it doesn't respond to finasteride, at all. Interestingly, though it doesn't look like standard male pattern baldness with the receding hairline and temple and crown, it does resemble diffuse thinning, since that's what female pattern hairloss: the hair is distributed in the same manner, but more diffuse. On the other hand, I've seen photos on this forum of people with receding hairlines, but not diffuse hairloss.

I think this hints (demonstrates?) at two separate mechanisms, where the androgenic mechanism only hits men, and can accelerate diffuse hairloss.

You once wrote that you believe that somebody on both dutasteride and RU58851 cannot lose hair (pretty sure that was you). Yet, based on the clinical trials of women on finasteride, that might not apply to women with diffuse thinning. So something else might not work, I'm not necessarily pointing to DP2 antagonists.

Jup, and TM30089 is the most potent of all.

And you are right about FPHL it's even less understood than Androgenetic Alopecia. I always reference to Androgenetic Alopecia by default, not FPHL. We could hypothesize about FPHL, but we would be going way off topic .

 

[parisienne]

Will do unk:.



FPHL it's even less understood than Androgenetic Alopecia. I always reference to Androgenetic Alopecia by default, not FPHL. We could hypothesize about FPHL, but we would be going way off topic .

Nope not off topic !!!
Please could you elaborate on how FPHL is different from Androgenetic Alopecia. I've been told that I have Androgenetic Alopecia and reading the studies I thought that the two were synonyms and that we started using the term FPHL not to use the male pattern baldness term to talk about our hair loss.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Nope not off topic !!!
Please could you elaborate on how FPHL is different from Androgenetic Alopecia. I've been told that I have Androgenetic Alopecia and reading the studies I thought that the two were synonyms and that we started using the term FPHL not to use the male pattern baldness term to talk about our hair loss.

Female pattern hair loss has to be different. Aside from the different morphology, women don't respond to finasteride. So it's probably unrelated to DHT.

 

[Hairloss23]

Female pattern hair loss has to be different. Aside from the different morphology, women don't respond to finasteride. So it's probably unrelated to DHT.

they do respond just usually not as well. A lot of women take spironolactone for hair loss, in a way it is like the female equivalent of finasteride although is probably a bit less effective, but DHT and T inhibition does work for women.

 

[parisienne]

I found studies stating that women could benefit from the 5ari.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16167423 (one case, I know. but still)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25382509 3500 women, 2 years ago.

and this : https://www.realself.com/question/s...pausal-woman-suffering-from-hair-loss-doctors . Jeff Donovan states he's prescribing dutasteride to post menopausal women. I guess that's not out of nothing.

However I think that anecdotal evidence is missing because most doctors are particularly reluctant to prescribe women 5ari (it looks like some won't even prescribe it for men so getting a finasteride/dutasteride prescription is actually harder to us than collecting the dragonballs).

The reason behind it -100% of chances of birth defects in male foetus- is actually valid but that doesn't mean women would not respond to these medicines.

I inheritated the condition from my nw8 father. If, 10 years ago, he started taking dutasteride, he could have avoided developing his prostate cancer. The mechanisms of prostate cancer and pattern baldness being similar, I think I could benefit from getting on a 5ari. I'm sorry guys, for it being a 100% broscience hypothesis. But my particular genetic heritage + the studies quoted above are enough to make me think I should try a 5ari for my hair loss.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I found studies stating that women could benefit from the 5ari.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16167423 (one case, I know. but still)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25382509 3500 women, 2 years ago.

and this : https://www.realself.com/question/s...pausal-woman-suffering-from-hair-loss-doctors . Jeff Donovan states he's prescribing dutasteride to post menopausal women. I guess that's not out of nothing.

However I think that anecdotal evidence is missing because most doctors are particularly reluctant to prescribe women 5ari (it looks like some won't even prescribe it for men so getting a finasteride/dutasteride prescription is actually harder to us than collecting the dragonballs).

The reason behind it -100% of chances of birth defects in male foetus- is actually valid but that doesn't mean women would not respond to these medicines.

I inheritated the condition from my nw8 father. If, 10 years ago, he started taking dutasteride, he could have avoided developing his prostate cancer. The mechanisms of prostate cancer and pattern baldness being similar, I think I could benefit from getting on a 5ari. I'm sorry guys, for it being a 100% broscience hypothesis. But my particular genetic heritage + the studies quoted above are enough to make me think I should try a 5ari for my hair loss.

If finasteride does work for women, its effectiveness is much lower.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11050579

Lack of efficacy of finasteride in postmenopausal women with androgenetic alopecia.

Price VH1, Roberts JL, Hordinsky M, Olsen EA, Savin R, Bergfeld W, Fiedler V, Lucky A, Whiting DA, Pappas F, Culbertson J, Kotey P, Meehan A, Waldstreicher J.
Author information



Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Finasteride, an inhibitor of type 2 5alpha-reductase, decreases serum and scalp dihydrotestosterone (DHT) by inhibiting conversion of testosterone to DHT and has been shown to be effective in men with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). The effects of finasteride in women with Androgenetic Alopecia have not been evaluated.
OBJECTIVE:

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the efficacy of finasteride in postmenopausal women with Androgenetic Alopecia.
METHODS:

In this 1-year, double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized, multicenter trial, 137 postmenopausal women (41-60 years of age) with Androgenetic Alopecia received finasteride 1 mg/day or placebo. Efficacy was evaluated by scalp hair counts, patient and investigator assessments, assessment of global photographs by a blinded expert panel, and histologic analysis of scalp biopsy specimens.
RESULTS:

After 1 year of therapy, there was no significant difference in the change in hair count between the finasteride and placebo groups. Both treatment groups had significant decreases in hair count in the frontal/parietal (anterior/mid) scalp during the 1-year study period. Similarly, patient, investigator, and photographic assessments as well as scalp biopsy analysis did not demonstrate any improvement in slowing hair thinning, increasing hair growth, or improving the appearance of the hair in finasteride-treated subjects compared with the placebo group. Finasteride was generally well tolerated.
CONCLUSION:



In postmenopausal women with Androgenetic Alopecia, finasteride 1 mg/day taken for 12 months did not not increase hair growth or slow the progression of hair thinning.

This suggests a separate mechanism for FPHL.

 

[parisienne]

It suggests that the dose of 1mg/day may be too low. In the second one I quoted they had results with 1.25 mg/day. And the experiment lasted 3 years.

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And yes, it may be lower, but at least it would adress the cause, or at least part of the cause, unlike the only FDA approved drug for FPHL.

 

[Conpecia]

Reading this thread makes my head explode. *** forum is calling everybody scammers, including you swoop, ziom and Kane. But the others are telling that the other side are scammers lol. So what to believe in? **** my life. I need some RU and CB but not sure whom to buy from.

pioneeringhg RU is legit. i say that even though i get banned from there regularly by swisstemples for calling him out and am currently banned from there by him. he's sensitive and has zero social skills, very in-his-own-world kind of guy. i like the other dudes on that forum and i will vouch for their groupbuys. i'll probably get the admin to let me back in when i need more RU later this year. they are trustworthy.

i also don't have a problem with swiss beyond the fact that he's a ban-crazy manlet, but as far as people coming on here acting like swisstemples is this benefactor curing male pattern baldness with seti and pge2, you guys are mental. all of you pioneering noobs defending swiss don't realize that he said he'd found the cure for male pattern baldness with chlorine dioxide way back in 2014 and then totally disappeared when he stopped getting results. i made the chlorine dioxide thread for him at Btruthtalk because he's banned from there just like he's banned from here. he stopped getting gains and bailed on the treatment, left literally everybody following that thread hanging without explanation. you can ask him or better yet go find my chlorine dioxide thread at the other site under this same username.

imo this is just the exact same thing happening again with different treatments. dude created an entire website in october 2015 and loaded it with monthly pics going all the way back to early last year. then he posted a november 2015 update that looked worse than october. now it's march 2016 and swiss hasn't posted a single update in 4 months. wut? nobody would take the time to do all of that and then stop posting results unless the results stopped being impressive. seriously, why would he post all of those instructions and pics and then randomly stop posting pics for months unless the results fizzled out again? use your rapidly balding heads for one second.

i have no horse in this race. i don't think swiss is a scam artist and i think his hairline results are legit, but i think he gets into stuff way over his head and instead of manning up and telling people he has no clue what he's doing and getting some feedback and helping the community, he pretends to know it all and then bails out rather than look bad.

i would love for one of you newer pioneeringhg members on here talking ish about swooping to give me one reason why i should believe in swiss's protocol after the way he abandoned everybody with the chlorine dioxide treatment. he had regrowth pics back then too. he's taken a zillion different experimentals the past few years and we have literally no clue how they're interacting. it's march 2016 and this whole protocol has been known about forever by now.

either post some pg protocol regrowth pics like swiss's or gtfo. you guys have had plenty of time. where is hellouser? where are vlad and tubzy and dench and klaas and all those dudes on that forum who would have been on this protocol for 6-7 months by now if they actually believed in it? they should all be showing regrowth just like swiss's from the same timeframe if it actually works like guys on here are pretending it does. don't come on here trashing us for being skeptical of swiss, the burden of proof is on you guys defending him.

 

[Kamino]

Because swissygirl doesnt have balls to say that he failed he'd rather just quietly brush it under the carpet and say he cant be bothered anymore to post photos its too much hassle but trust me I'm nw0 and the pathetic pgh followers just accept it. And remembering how last summer he convinced is all we have a cure people whilst posting photos every week of the 'initial growth' . He just loves the attention as he obviously doesn't get any in real life but its a shame it costs other people thousands of $ and false hope.

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IF swiss believed in his protocol so badly like he says he would drop dutasteride and just do the Prostaglandin Protocol. The fact that he doesn't tells you all you need to know about this failed experiment.

 

[Hairloss23]

Because swissygirl doesnt have balls to say that he failed he'd rather just quietly brush it under the carpet and say he cant be bothered anymore to post photos its too much hassle but trust me I'm nw0 and the pathetic pgh followers just accept it. And remembering how last summer he convinced is all we have a cure people whilst posting photos every week of the 'initial growth' . He just loves the attention as he obviously doesn't get any in real life but its a shame it costs other people thousands of $ and false hope.

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IF swiss believed in his protocol so badly like he says he would drop dutasteride and just do the Prostaglandin Protocol. The fact that he doesn't tells you all you need to know about this failed experiment.

What are you talking about? He has said from the beginning his protocol is focused on regrowth not maintenance, the current set of PGD2 inhibitors couldn't maintain unless megadosed and even then it may still be impossible for those with aggressive male pattern baldness, which is the majority of us as most forum users are 18-35. Also in the beginning his only way of lowering pgd2 was Sulfa, you expected him to maintain on that? **** off you mongoloid.

 

[deniak]

LOL at hope in this thread. Some of you need to man up and take the truth.

First - BASIS of Swiss protocol is DUTASTERIDE. He try to hide that everytime, and never mentions it in his "official protocol". Whats sad only few people called him on that. If youre not on finasteride or dutasteride (so basically getting rid of 70-99% DHT from your body) castor oil nad UVB gives you s**t longterm. Thats sad truth, sorry. Maybe you can grow some vellus hair, but almost anything can grow baby hair short term, look for evidence on forums. If youre on finasteride/dutasteride than basically youre done (add minoxidil fore regrowth, thats all). For guys who dont want to mess their cognitive functions and libido with 5ar inhibition, Swiss is basically false prophet.
Second - guys from *** recruit naive baldies to take part in overpriced gropubuys of some shady chemicals. Dont worry, after one year and no results, they start to ban those people and suddenly new hairloss jesus like Swiss shows up, recruiting new guys with promiss of NW0,5 with some ultra effective new protocol.
Third - his results are very good, but I dont see from his pictures cosmetically noticable results aka hairs covering shiny scalp, and its only thing that matters in this game. At this moment only finasteride, dutasteride, minoxidil (if youre suerresponder) and transplants makes visible difference.

12 pages of beating deadhorse. Amazing.

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I inheritated the condition from my nw8 father. If, 10 years ago, he started taking dutasteride, he could have avoided developing his prostate cancer. The mechanisms of prostate cancer and pattern baldness being similar, I think I could benefit from getting on a 5ari.

Chance of getting cancer on finasteride is indeed smaller (not sure if statistically significant), BUT by same token if you get cancer it will be most aggresive and hard to treat form. So I dont se here any good trade.

 

[Kamino]

What are you talking about? He has said from the beginning his protocol is focused on regrowth not maintenance, the current set of PGD2 inhibitors couldn't maintain unless megadosed and even then it may still be impossible for those with aggressive male pattern baldness, which is the majority of us as most forum users are 18-35. Also in the beginning his only way of lowering pgd2 was Sulfa, you expected him to maintain on that? **** off you mongoloid.

Could you refrain from using that sort of language please, I know that's the kind of racist slurs that swiss regularly uses to people and he has brainwashed followers but it is offensive. I said why doesn't he quit dutasteride NOW if it works so well, I guess that went over your head. All his thickening of his existing hair was from DUTASTERIDE the main component of his prostaglandin protocol which surprisingly he never mentions. His picture with his full head on display was his from BEFORE he took dutasteride which swoop has proven! He conned y'all into thinking it was before his pre- Protocol. He regrow a bit of vellus by taking about 4 topicals and 3 orals meds which no-one can keep up with, risking his health. And that never fully regrew which is why you haven't seen a picture in months and wont again unless he uses photoshop to trick you again. Seriously dude give it up, you really don't know anything about this conman and his history of lies and deceit. But I guess you enjoy the taste of his c*** in your mouth.

 

[firstpost]

I can't tell if you're a troll or you're just deranged. I'll assume that you're deranged and try to give you a hand.

Most people on these boards are here to learn more about hair loss, and because there's a good discussion of men's health in general. That is hard to find. Most of the internet is littered with peddlers of biotin, and PUA BS saying "just shave it."

In general, there is little to be gained in life by fighting with everybody, by denigrating everybody, by assuming the worst of everybody, which is your modus operandi. It just makes you look like a douchebag primarily, it makes people not like you, it ruins the atmosphere of wherever you happen to be hanging out, it also lowers the signal-to-noise of discussions.

Try to respect people, particularly knowledgeable people, and be civil. You're more likely to learn that way, and you are someone who is in deep need of learning.

I recommend you read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People: By Dale Carnegie". You will be exposed to the idea, for the first time in your life, that going to war with everybody all the time is not necessarily the best strategy.

In every one of your posts, you sound so defeated and broken down. I can't help but feel sorry and pray so it will never happen to me if I ever go completely bald.

I still can't forget when you tried to justify actions of a gf who who got abortion without bf's consent or knowledge like it's no big deal.

Truly terrible what hairloss does to an already weak minded man. The cure can't come soon enough. Get well my friend, you need these self help book way more then me.

 

[Dench57]

where are vlad and tubzy and dench and klaas and all those dudes on that forum who would have been on this protocol for 6-7 months by now

I've never done the PG protocol since its aimed at regrowth, I was only going to attempt it if I stabilized my loss, which I haven't. I don't respond to any CRTH2 antagonists (approx. 1/3 of people don't due to genotype).

 

[AbuAktar]

Setip was first coined a fail by one pioneering, innovative Frenchman. Although met with much disgust and even insults this Frenchman persevered, and was determined in his endeavour to discover the truth. This hypothesis of 'setip is fail :unsure:' was discovered one night by Dr. Cotsarelis, and this led him to divulge deeper into CRTH2 Antagonists and the genetic geneotypes. And after many months of study came to the conclusion that indeed in approximately 1/3 of people setip will be fail. One can only congratulate this man on his endless pursuit of the truth.

 

[Hairloss23]

Setip was first coined a fail by one pioneering, innovative Frenchman. Although met with much disgust and even insults this Frenchman persevered, and was determined in his endeavour to discover the truth. This hypothesis of 'setip is fail :unsure:' was discovered one night by Dr. Cotsarelis, and this led him to divulge deeper into CRTH2 Antagonists and the genetic geneotypes. And after many months of study came to the conclusion that indeed in approximately 1/3 of people setip will be fail. One can only congratulate this man on his endless pursuit of the truth.

Seuxin is a great man, he deserves better. Maybe CB but it's too expansive.

 

[firstpost]

You're in desperate need of a clue, more so than i thought just from your puerile and impotent belligerence and your advocacy of holocaust denial.

YES -abortion are up to the woman. Welcome to civilized society. Civilized baldies and full heads agree.

Your childish tantrums are a sign of weakness -- it's an indicator of your low self-esteem. You're compensating for your lack of self worth by attempting (and failing in) bringing others down.

I'm so uncivilized because I have my own opinions and question everything I'm told. I'm so childish and have low self-worth because I expect my gf to involve me into matters that concern OUR child.

You know, before this forum, I never fully grasped the concept behind "bald loser". Thank you for expanding my horizon!

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

For the love of God, can you guys get back on topic?