Microneedling Faqs: Procedures, Studies And Such

HowardWulkan

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Glad I could contribute to the community. We're in the same boat, so gotta help each other!
That is correct. If you only use them once, it'd be an additional 150 CAD for you.
But apparently it's worth the price, according to the members who own it. I wanted to get it myself, but I'm too poor to afford it.
Good luck with your needling journey! Keep us updated if you will. :)

Thanks for the clarification. If I re-use each one once, which seems acceptable (assuming i disinfect it properly ofc) 25 should last me a year, which how long I intended to stick to it. And yeah, I plan to take progress photos.

Still naturally skeptical, since I assume if this was the massive breakthrough that it seems to be it would be all over the news.. Well not the news, but you know.. it'd be a massive deal and I'm sure there'd be at least a few news articles being like 'hair loss cure finally found' lol, but I figure it's worth a shot, especially considering the low price when compared to an hair transplant.
 

HowardWulkan

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Oh one more question. I know needle length and frequency are addressed in the original post, but is there any consensus on level of intensity? Like, should my entire scalp be bleeding like that one dude, or am I just looking for redness?
 

overpourgoodfortune

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Intensity is a tough one. Some people have had results going hard with lots of blood spots.

That said - if you want to follow what scientific protocol we have from the studies - they went for mild redness, not specifically blood.

Numberman who the large thread was started based on... just went for mild redness as well and had great results. Overall - I'd say listen to your body. You are indeed trying to wound to initiate a response from the body... but that doesn't necessarily mean a bloodbath either. Try it out for yourself ... your scalp will throb even with no bleeding to let you know you did some damage. I usually take that as a sign I did wound enough, as opposed to blood. Is my scalp angry? Yep... okay, wounded enough! :)
 

HowardWulkan

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Intensity is a tough one. Some people have had results going hard with lots of blood spots.

That said - if you want to follow what scientific protocol we have from the studies - they went for mild redness, not specifically blood.

Numberman who the large thread was started based on... just went for mild redness as well and had great results. Overall - I'd say listen to your body. You are indeed trying to wound to initiate a response from the body... but that doesn't necessarily mean a bloodbath either. Try it out for yourself ... your scalp will throb even with no bleeding to let you know you did some damage. I usually take that as a sign I did wound enough, as opposed to blood. Is my scalp angry? Yep... okay, wounded enough! :)

Ya, I guess it's tricky since so far all this stuff is anecdotal anyway, but I suppose it is called MICROwounding after all, whereas some of the posts/image galleries I've seen def more resemble MACROwounding lol. I figure it should be something like a pin prick where even though the skin is penetrated, you're not like, bleeding all over the place.
 

overpourgoodfortune

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@HowardWulkan - yep, exactly. Instead of concentrating on intensity ... you'll find you initially need to concentrate on consistency/coverage. Assuming you're doing crown - it is very hard to see exactly what you're doing. Intensity can come after technique :)
 

HowardWulkan

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Also -- anyone have any thoughts on the apparent fact that the greatest responders are really young (early 20s'). Wondering if that has anything to do with it...
 

Matt Rogers

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Thanks for the clarification. If I re-use each one once, which seems acceptable (assuming i disinfect it properly ofc) 25 should last me a year, which how long I intended to stick to it. And yeah, I plan to take progress photos.

Still naturally skeptical, since I assume if this was the massive breakthrough that it seems to be it would be all over the news.. Well not the news, but you know.. it'd be a massive deal and I'm sure there'd be at least a few news articles being like 'hair loss cure finally found' lol, but I figure it's worth a shot, especially considering the low price when compared to an hair transplant.

Don't buy 25 cartridges right off the bat, you may regret it
 

HowardWulkan

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Don't buy 25 cartridges right off the bat, you may regret it
I figure I need enough to last me a year, since I want to do a 12-month trial before deciding if it's working or not. I ended up buying half that though and settled on re-using them, since there doesn't seem to be any major disadvantage to re-use if they are adequately sterilized.
 

ImpedingReceding

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I would just like to suggest that you warn people that the derminator people are quite.. complicated and that one need to tread carefully to not make them agitated!
 

Necr0sis

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Hey guys,

My derminator 2 came in today and I’ve been trying to find a good guide (or summary of what’s been discussed here) on how to use it specifically for the scalp (not just a general manual)


I’m looking for a guide that has things like needle length, optimal settings, and technique.


If anyone could help me out it would be very appreciated.
 

CuredMouse

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Hey guys,

My derminator 2 came in today and I’ve been trying to find a good guide (or summary of what’s been discussed here) on how to use it specifically for the scalp (not just a general manual)


I’m looking for a guide that has things like needle length, optimal settings, and technique.


If anyone could help me out it would be very appreciated.
Don't speed through it, read the very first post on this thread, twice even and do the same with the video imbedded in that post. That will give you all the information you need but consume it entirely and don't leave anything out
 

Necr0sis

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Don't speed through it, read the very first post on this thread, twice even and do the same with the video imbedded in that post. That will give you all the information you need but consume it entirely and don't leave anything out

Awesome thanks. Is there a time setting for the Derminator 2 that I should use? I hear people using 5 minutes or so. Also, the guide says to use "1.5 mm" needle derma rollers, but I think it refers to general derma rollers. I suppose I use 1.5 mm setting on the derminator 2? I'm using the 12 needle cartridges btw.
 

ghosthairkillah

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If you’re applying minoxidil after needling but can only do it at night, should you still put minoxidil on in the morning?
 

bluesuedeshoes

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I reuse my cartridges for multiple sessions. The needles might get a touch blunted after a few uses but I've not noticed any difference. I usually replace them after a few months of use (once per week). They certainly dont need to be tossed after once session - just be good about cleaning them and you have nothing to worry about.
 

EhAlrightHeh

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So, has there been discussion as to whether this is safe to do if you already got FUE and are planning to do more? I want to start doing this with a Dr Pen Ultima A6 at 1.5mm but wanted to make at least hear that people who did this were fine in this situation.
 

Trinky

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How to sanitize the dermaroller? Do I need to do it before or after needeling? I bought the 70%alchool solution but not sure how to use it exactly.
 

LowHairLine

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DERMINATOR Vs DR.PEN ULTIMA A6
- MINI REVIEW -

Having seen plenty of discussion & Qs about them and owning both, thought to share my experience & hopefully help with your queries.
D2-Vs-A6.jpg


SPEED / FREQ.
I have measured the needling frequencies - & differences are unexpectedly large:
ULTIMA (A6) = 5 SPEEDS = 75 - 80 - 90 - 95 - 100 Hz
Speeds packed so close together (MAX Vs MIN ratio 1.4) that 2 speeds would have been enough.
FREQ--A6.jpeg

DERMINATOR-2 (D2) = 3 SPEEDS = 2.5 - 5 - 30 Hz
All D2 speeds are much lower than A6 - & so far apart from each-other (MAX Vs MIN ratio 12 !!) that this time 5 speeds would have been better ;)

EDIT: Replaced the Lo-Speed measurement with the correct one;

FREQ--D2-Lo.png FREQ--D2-Med.png FREQ--D2-Hi.png


MECHANICS
Here lies the fundamental difference between the two:

D2 = Pulsating Device:
needles pulsate (a bit like our hearts ;))
PULSATING--Heart.jpg

A6 = Oscillating Device:
needles oscillate (much like a mass on a spring);
OSCILLATION--Spring.jpg
As visible in the charts above, at the same needling speed / frequency the A6 needle stays in the skin longer, increasing pain & risk of transversal Tearing;

EDIT: the higher tearing risk was only theoretically evaluated due to the A6 longer penetration times, which in combination with fast lateral movement could elongate the holes - BUT I did NOT analyze my wounds to assess this and did NOT notice any consequences after healing;


CARTRIDGES
The Bayonet is identical and both cartridges fit both devices:
NEEDLES--Bayonet.jpg

HOWEVER, D2's cartridge needles (right) are approx 1mm deeper than A6's (left)
NEEDLES--Length.jpg

Therefore:
A6 + D2-Needles = appr. 1mm DEEPER than set on device
(i.e. for 1.5mm you need to set it to 0.5mm);
D2 + A6-Needles = appr. 1mm SHALLOWER than set on device
(i.e. for 1.5mm you need to set it to 2.5mm);


ADVANTAGES
D2
- PAIN = Less (due to lower speeds);
- FLUIDITY = Better (needles don't get stuck while gliding);
- SPEED. RANGE = Wider (D2=12:1 Vs A6=1.4:1);
- TEARING = Lower Risk (briefer needle penetration time);
EDIT:
- FLAKING = disappeared (had plenty w/ A6);


A6
- PRICE = Cheaper (Unit & Cartridges);
- DELIVERY = Faster;
- DEPTH SETTING = Finer (A6=continuous Vs D2=0.25mm steps);
- WIRELESS (D2 = Wired);
- SPEED = Higher (less needling time for same wounding result);
EDIT:
- BAYONET = sturdy / durable ALU (D2 = Plastic & rotates past lock point if over-tightened);
- EASIER USAGE = depth wheel + power button (D2 = multiple menus & confirmations);



VERDICT
Prefer D2 cause the briefer needle penetration & lower speeds make it so much less painful that it's a game changer for me: @ the hairline had tears every time w/ A6, whereas w/ D2 enjoying & often find myself looking where else to Derminate... ;)

On the other hand, more great responders use a Pen than a D2 - & A6's higher speeds mean shorter sessions for the same hole-count. Therefore - if you're a tough guy, A6 might well fit your bill! But most importantly, whatever your choice... stick with your destiny, embrace the pain & report your Results! :D
 
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