Anyone who has ever collected, organized, manipulated, analysed and interpreted data knows that it's pure stupidity to assume a priori that you are dealing with an strict objective representation of the phenomenon. This is the pinnacle of scientific naïve realism. To represent a truly compelling evidence, there must be transparency in the process of data collection and further analysis, so the experiment can be replicated multiple times and validated independently. The problem with those kinds of enterprise is that the ultimate objective is profit, so there's no WAY IN HELL all the standards of open, reliable and reproducible science will be met. They simply cannot offer us this now. I'm not a sort of ''histogen skeptic'', I'm just pointing that we simply cannot assume they have a reliable proposal yet. Not yet.
I didn't want to compare histogen with Brotzu's potion, but f***, one more point: therapeutic targets and approaches are chosen based on an explanatory model of the system involved, which is grounded in theories developed and supported by experimentation, epistemological assessment and further critical reorientation...it's a dynamic and mutating process, and the pieces - small blocks - generated by basic science ALL the f*****g time are constantly pushing researchers to different directions. Scientific theories are not static, so paradigms are being overturned all the time. The implications? The consensus on what constitutes and acceptable explanation are always evolving. In this regard, not considering any evidence ( or lack of) provided by the two enterprises, but how plausible and parsimonious the claims are, you know what I think? I think the potion has higher odds of bringing some smiles faster than the big sketchy enterprise that is constantly delaying trials and results and has to resort to MISERABLE combover tricks. Yeah, f*** you all, throw rocks at me now you barbarians !!!!! I've always had mixed feelings about the potion -whatever the motherfucking commercial name it'll receive - but you know what?? Use the occam's razor, my friend. Simplicity is key to wide-ranging solutions. The most elegant solutions are S-I-M-P-L-E and theoretically sound! Am I implying that the potion will work?? Not at all!! I'm just arguing that without reproduction and validation of the effect claimed, they are both more or less in the same position....except the potion refers to more plausible mechanisms of action.
Tldr, but I get the gist of it. Histogen fakes their data, and Fidia's lotion is built on a more realistic theory. People think a lot of unnecessary words makes them seem smart, but brevity is better. Anyways, I don't buy your argument. I've been skeptical of Brotzu from day 1 because this theory has already been tried on the forums, and it's not that difficult. It might work as well as minoxidil and finasteride, but it's not going to be an advancement in treatment.
Histogen may have faked their data, but Fidia doesn't even have data, so you're just hanging your hope on a theory that's been tried and failed. Histogen's HSC is actually on very solid theoretical ground, it's basically a supercharged minoxidil, so there's reason to believe that their results are real. Why can't they get funding? Would you rather invest in a supercharged minoxidil or hair multiplication? Fidia has a network already to put this lotion out and make a few bucks with little investment. It's not much of a gamble even if it doesn't work. To invest in a startup like Histogen when RIKEN and others are closing in on a CURE, is quite a bit riskier. Despite that, they have managed to raise significant capital. I'm sure all those millions came from naive people though.
First, most venture capital finding fails. That's not a good argument.
Second, if histogen is a supercharged minoxidil, then it doesn't stand on strong theoretical grounds. Nobody actually knows how minoxidil works. Also the DGLA in Brotzu's lotion is thought to be like minoxidil, and nobody's tried it as far as I know.
By the way find me three examples of people who tried topical s-equol with pictures. You say people have tried it ... Well then prove it.
Finally histogen is not claiming to be a super minoxidil so you shouldn't make that claim on their behalf. They're saying that they grow hair at the hairline and temples and that they can make belly's hairs go terminal. We'll see.
It's definitely impossible to people to test normally an s-equol against Androgenetic Alopecia, as Brotzu explained in all his scientific essays, he demonstrated that DGLA and Equol are unable to penetrate the skin. There came his idea to carry them in liposomes positively charged: the full attachment to the skin is perfectly guaranteed, and then they release the compounds they are carrying (DGLA and Equol, in fact). Applying topically Borraginee Oil or other DGLA sources is uneffective because of this. Then, I highly doubt anyone even tried topically S-Equol, because the cost of the pure compound is TOO MUCH, we are talking about, as a IESON user proved recently, for like 470€ for 100 ml of Brotzu Lotion (can't remember euros for grams, but it's high).
And for those who tried sistemically equol with ingesting large quantities of soia (or horse piss ) , they failed because the quantities of equol are minimal in natural products. It needs to be isolated from large quantities (hence its cost).
Then, about DGLA, it was already explained too many times that it is not a powered-up minoxidil: again, minoxidil is a vasodilator which can act only on the perycyte, while DGLA carried in liposomes reaches the endothelial cells, and for all its properties (common to all his evolutive chain which leads to PGE1) can do much more than vasodilating, in fact it repairs blood vessel and causes neoangiogenesis (!!!). Like PGE1, it has a very brief half life if injected, Brotzu talked about 20 minutes. It's nearly impossible without the doctor's strategy or something like that to make these compounds to reach the follicles.
View attachment 50400
It's definitely impossible to people to test normally an s-equol against Androgenetic Alopecia, as Brotzu explained in all his scientific essays, he demonstrated that DGLA and Equol are unable to penetrate the skin. There came his idea to carry them in liposomes positively charged: the full attachment to the skin is perfectly guaranteed, and then they release the compounds they are carrying (DGLA and Equol, in fact). Applying topically Borraginee Oil or other DGLA sources is uneffective because of this. Then, I highly doubt anyone even tried topically S-Equol, because the cost of the pure compound is TOO MUCH, we are talking about, as a IESON user proved recently, for like 470€ for 100 ml of Brotzu Lotion (can't remember euros for grams, but it's high).
And for those who tried sistemically equol with ingesting large quantities of soia (or horse piss ) , they failed because the quantities of equol are minimal in natural products. It needs to be isolated from large quantities (hence its cost).
Then, about DGLA, it was already explained too many times that it is not a powered-up minoxidil: again, minoxidil is a vasodilator which can act only on the perycyte, while DGLA carried in liposomes reaches the endothelial cells, and for all its properties (common to all his evolutive chain which leads to PGE1) can do much more than vasodilating, in fact it repairs blood vessel and causes neoangiogenesis (!!!). Like PGE1, it has a very brief half life if injected, Brotzu talked about 20 minutes. It's nearly impossible without the doctor's strategy or something like that to make these compounds to reach the follicles.View attachment 50400
First, most venture capital finding fails. That's not a good argument.
Second, if histogen is a supercharged minoxidil, then it doesn't stand on strong theoretical grounds. Nobody actually knows how minoxidil works. Also the DGLA in Brotzu's lotion is thought to be like minoxidil, and nobody's tried it as far as I know.
By the way find me three examples of people who tried topical s-equol with pictures. You say people have tried it ... Well then prove it.
Finally histogen is not claiming to be a super minoxidil so you shouldn't make that claim on their behalf. They're saying that they grow hair at the hairline and temples and that they can make belly's hairs go terminal. We'll see.
Use the search function if you want to find people who tried S-equol, I don't have time to do it for you.
You're the one claiming that people have tried s-equol. You're saying that we know it doesn't work.
No evidence though.
Ok. Like I said, you will all believe what you want no matter what, I'm not interested in convincing anyone. I have better things to do.
Ok. Like I said, you will all believe what you want no matter what, I'm not interested in convincing anyone. I have better things to do.
What is this bullshit? Did a thread EVER got locked? Like.. I know threads get locked if they are solved like in a computer forum.. but in a research forum? Locking a thread here?Seriously, this thread should be locked until 2018.
But... but... the dank memes are all hereSeriously, this thread should be locked until 2018.
profile pic matches perfect hahahahaBut... but... the dank memes are all here