Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

ZenHead

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Why are there so many people making excuses for Brotzu's son? If he claims he recovered 2 Norwood's and then sits quiet for 2 years and it turns out he didn't, why try to rationalize it instead of take it at face value?

"Well he's been balding for 20 years, so it wouldn't work that well". You realize in order to actually think that, you believe two things:
1. He shamelessly lied for 2 years (for no other reason than to drum up false hype) but you're okay with it and it's not a big deal
2. You're literally using his own 5 year claim in order to rationalize and downplay his lie above. When the 5 year claim should be considered a lie as well.
I never made an excuse fir him, nor did I claim he recovered 2 Norwoods. Nobody really knows if he did or not, we don’t have any evidence. I’m pretty sure the 5 year claim was made for those who recently started losing hair. Either way I’m tired of all the speculation, just giving my educated opinion
 

Alternative

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I never made an excuse fir him, nor did I claim he recovered 2 Norwoods. Nobody really knows if he did or not, we don’t have any evidence. I’m pretty sure the 5 year claim was made for those who recently started losing hair. Either way I’m tired of all the speculation, just giving my educated opinion
The earlier the treatment starts the better. Most of people here are nervous because their hairloss is too fast and bald spots are b**ch to reversed. Let's hope this works with agressive hair loss or at least stabilizes it.
 

ZenHead

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On another note, anyone else here from the US wondering how wet can get our hands on this when it is released?
 

Trouse

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As far as the whole "recover X number of norwoods" thing goes, not only is that unscientific based on the fact that hairloss does not occur in a linear fashion across different patients, or even in the same patient for that matter, I strongly suspect that there's a big gap between the statistical recovery of norwoods based on follicle counts/ hair width measurements etc and the aesthetic improvement of a person's hair to the general observer.

Very high end hair transplants are evidence of this. Even though the patient is left with a final result that is several times less dense than their pre-balding days, the results offer a functional "cure" to the overwhelming majority of the observant population, excluding balding obsessed whack jobs like myself who have become really good at spotting them. Someone earlier mentioned Rafael De Freitas, I'll just leave a couple samples of his work here.


Do those guys have absolutely perfect density on top of their heads that stands up to certain scrutiny like combing/ wetness? Of course not, but the aesthetic improvement is monumental and the scarring is not detectable. I don't think that the "five year" or "2-3 norwoods" language was intentionally used to deceive, I just think that it's an over-simplified answer to tons of different bald dudes all with unique situations with regards to stabilization, the speed at which they're losing, familial history of hair-loss, and all the other factors that are difficult to account for. So when we get more definitive info on this (and other treatments), I think we should remember that the numbers/ percentages/ tricoscan images may sound rather disappointing, but that doesn't mean the treatment won't still have a very welcomed impact.
 
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BlueHorseshoe

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As far as the whole "recover X number of norwoods" thing goes, not only is that unscientific based on the fact that hairloss does not occur in a linear fashion across different patients, or even in the same patient for that matter, I strongly suspect that there's a big gap between the statistical recovery of norwoods based on follicle counts/ hair width measurements etc and the aesthetic improvement of a person's hair to the general observer.

Very high end hair transplants are evidence of this. Even though the patient is left with a final result that is several times less dense than their pre-balding days, the results offer a functional "cure" to the overwhelming majority of the observant population, excluding balding obsessed whack jobs like myself who have become really good at spotting them. Someone earlier mentioned Rafael De Freitas, I'll just leave a couple samples of his work here.


Do those guys have absolutely perfect density on top of their heads that stands up to certain scrutiny like combing/ wetness? Of course not, but the aesthetic improvement is monumental and the scarring is not detectable. I don't think that the "five year" or "2-3 norwoods" language was intentionally used to deceive, I just think that it's an over-simplified answer to tons of different bald dudes all with unique situations with regards to stabilization, the speed at which they're losing, familial history of hair-loss, and all the other factors that are difficult to account for. So when we get more definitive info on this (and other treatments), I think we should remember that the numbers/ percentages/ tricoscan images may sound rather disappointing, but that doesn't mean the treatment won't still have a very welcomed impact.

I think that’s a really good point, I find it hard to believe u can recover full density from this product but perhaps you can regain enough density to given the cosmetic effect of regaining a Norwood.
 

Alternative

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If this is anything like Topical Estrogen, but without sides then someday we may have gold in our hands.
Sadly, this may be unlikely, we will only know after we use it ourselves it seems. If it's sh*t or gold, I mean.

This thread is like Power Fantasy for baldies :(.
 

Arrade

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I get skepticism but I don't know why people keep questioning the regrowth aspect. The first inception of this lotion was basically rogaine plus, meaning it was a vasodilator and cell metabolizer that grew hair. It wasn't meant to stop hair loss, but it did happen to grow hair. The maintenance aspect of S-equol counteracting DHT came later.
 

Arrade

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Guys, i know i always say wait till April 14th but i f*****g can’t. My hair ain’t stop getting thinner and more infos i find more doubts i have. Like i get it the science is solid and people had hood results with alternative versions, but will this lotion ever hit the market ? Is this legit or scam? I can’t stop thinking about this lotion. f*** April 14th can’t come sooner
It has to hit the market, why would Fidia have Brotzu represent the trial results? To stroke his ego?
 

Arrade

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Just to clarify and I could be wrong, but I don't think "DHT cascade from turning into pgd2" makes any scientific sense. It's not possible for the metabolic pathway that DHT is on to ever turn into PGD2. I think what you meant was that it may be likely that the physiological response from Androgen Receptors being bound to by DHT has an indirect effect on PGD2 synthesis (Arachidonic Acid>PGH2 via COX-2>PGD2 via PGD2synthase. What this physiological response may be doing is causing a change in the expression of PGD2synthase through the Estrogen Receptor Beta. Studies have also shown that DHT can both increase or decrease COX-2 expression depending on the inflammatory state of the cell itself, which would also have an effect on PGD2 synthesis.
I don't know why but this makes me believe Brotzu when he says over time the hair becomes DHT resistant :D
 

The 7TH Sense

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Why are there so many people making excuses for Brotzu's son? If he claims he recovered 2 Norwood's and then sits quiet for 2 years and it turns out he didn't, why try to rationalize it instead of take it at face value?

"Well he's been balding for 20 years, so it wouldn't work that well". You realize in order to actually think that, you believe two things:
1. He shamelessly lied for 2 years (for no other reason than to drum up false hype) but you're okay with it and it's not a big deal
2. You're literally using his own 5 year claim in order to rationalize and downplay his lie above. When the 5 year claim should be considered a lie as well.

Except the very last phrase, you got a solid point. More than one, I sincerely think that you are the only one who ever brought up good and valid "pessimist" points.
I agree, trying to justify his hair situation using the words of him and his father is just a cope. I would like to remember that, however, I didn't personally see hus situation (I am a "Norwood spotter" very experienced and precise) but surely he didn't have a blatant cosmetic improvement, either way because he keeps shaving or because he didn't experience that much regrowth if any. There's still the point to argue that to a regular guy not into hairloss, a transition between NW5A and 4 could (maybe) not be perceived. But 2 IESON users said to have seen his photos, (and you can bet they're Norwood-spotters) and they said he even worsened a bit from the only visible photo of him on the internet.
I asked 2 tester friends of him and they were kind and gentle even while showing me photos of their kids, but both when I asked about Giuseppe Brotzu's hairs stopped responding. It's quite shady also that There's nothing visible on FB, I mean you can't find no more than a photo of him.

If I'm not wrong, he himself told to Clockwise in a message that he recovered "some hair" but his Androgenetic Alopecia was too old and advanced ? Very different from the 2 NWs claims.

What I'm thinking though is that this is not a scam, I mean, they genuinely found something, but in their findings maybe they weren't able to properly identify (due to the lack of knowledge in the hairloss field) the boundaries/limits of their discovery, or maybe they went too far with their claims.
This is what I'm fearing, that maybe they exaggerated in the sense they expressed themselves too approximately or maybe they were literally hit by the hype created by us and did nothing to "redimensionate" the case.

However, given the Areata results, I am sure this is not a scam and since it turned out to be exactly what the professor always said, I'm somewhat confident that the results Fidia will show will be truly of the size of the claims HE made (and not OUR interpretations), which, in their purest form, are:
- the lotion stops the hair fall;
- the lotion causes thickening and regrowth in the measure of: age of the patient, age of the Alopecia, "traditional" factors.

Either way, what should comfort us is that the study which will be presented is focused on Androgenetic Alopecia. This means that whatever claim that they will make at the congress will be backed up or demonstrable in some ways. You just can't anymore get away with a cosmetic that says something shady or unproven, At least in Italy. Finally recently Crescina (the Prince of all hairloss scams) was destroyed by a national tribunal process, they even said that "the molecule used in the product in any way can be associated with regrowth of hair in any form, hence the advertisements are declared as false".
I'm really interested in what they will say at the congress, I will take for truthful and sincere every claim they will make, because the study was carried and finished and they can't be that stupid to risk a legal cause for false advertising. Usually cosmetics are not backed with studies or researches like these that we have for this lotion (many exceptions could be found in what I just wrote, but not in the hairloss world, never seen a cosmetics backed by documented studies).
 

ZenHead

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I get skepticism but I don't know why people keep questioning the regrowth aspect. The first inception of this lotion was basically rogaine plus, meaning it was a vasodilator and cell metabolizer that grew hair. It wasn't meant to stop hair loss, but it did happen to grow hair. The maintenance aspect of S-equol counteracting DHT came later.
It’s funny that the most effective treatments for hair loss have been discovered by accident. Finasteride was originally used specifically for men with enlarged prostates and guess what - it grew hair! Minoxidil was a experimental heart medication and guess what... it grew hair too! (Even though it was all over the body, and not just the scalp). Dermarolling was designed to reduce facial wrinkles and someone thought, yknow, let’s stab our scalps and see what happens. This “lotion” was originally designed as a diabetes treatment... and it (most likely) grows a good amount of hair. Notice a trend here? This is why I have a hard time believing this is anything close to snake oil. It’s discovery was an accident. If someone wanted to sell us bullshit, the science behind it just wouldn’t be as solid, period...
 

Bad_Wolve

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It’s funny that the most effective treatments for hair loss have been discovered by accident. Finasteride was originally used specifically for men with enlarged prostates and guess what - it grew hair! Minoxidil was a experimental heart medication and guess what... it grew hair too! (Even though it was all over the body, and not just the scalp). Dermarolling was designed to reduce facial wrinkles and someone thought, yknow, let’s stab our scalps and see what happens. This “lotion” was originally designed as a diabetes treatment... and it (most likely) grows a good amount of hair. Notice a trend here? This is why I have a hard time believing this is anything close to snake oil. It’s discovery was an accident. If someone wanted to sell us bullshit, the science behind it just wouldn’t be as solid, period...

thats so true bro. i cant imagine that all this hairloss research lead to nowhere. until now, nobody who searched for a hairloss treatment was able to replace finasteride or minoxidil. maybe this is a point for brotzu potion. lets see what aclaris, follica and replicel can do.

ok so i told you guys that all the reseach lead to nowhere, so i will post my favourite song from an italian dj here. this song is dedicated to all this f*****g scientists, which where not able to perform old brotzu out.

 

Clockwise

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Except the very last phrase, you got a solid point. More than one, I sincerely think that you are the only one who ever brought up good and valid "pessimist" points.
I agree, trying to justify his hair situation using the words of him and his father is just a cope. I would like to remember that, however, I didn't personally see hus situation (I am a "Norwood spotter" very experienced and precise) but surely he didn't have a blatant cosmetic improvement, either way because he keeps shaving or because he didn't experience that much regrowth if any. There's still the point to argue that to a regular guy not into hairloss, a transition between NW5A and 4 could (maybe) not be perceived. But 2 IESON users said to have seen his photos, (and you can bet they're Norwood-spotters) and they said he even worsened a bit from the only visible photo of him on the internet.
I asked 2 tester friends of him and they were kind and gentle even while showing me photos of their kids, but both when I asked about Giuseppe Brotzu's hairs stopped responding. It's quite shady also that There's nothing visible on FB, I mean you can't find no more than a photo of him.

If I'm not wrong, he himself told to Clockwise in a message that he recovered "some hair" but his Androgenetic Alopecia was too old and advanced ? Very different from the 2 NWs claims.

What I'm thinking though is that this is not a scam, I mean, they genuinely found something, but in their findings maybe they weren't able to properly identify (due to the lack of knowledge in the hairloss field) the boundaries/limits of their discovery, or maybe they went too far with their claims.
This is what I'm fearing, that maybe they exaggerated in the sense they expressed themselves too approximately or maybe they were literally hit by the hype created by us and did nothing to "redimensionate" the case.

However, given the Areata results, I am sure this is not a scam and since it turned out to be exactly what the professor always said, I'm somewhat confident that the results Fidia will show will be truly of the size of the claims HE made (and not OUR interpretations), which, in their purest form, are:
- the lotion stops the hair fall;
- the lotion causes thickening and regrowth in the measure of: age of the patient, age of the Alopecia, "traditional" factors.

Either way, what should comfort us is that the study which will be presented is focused on Androgenetic Alopecia. This means that whatever claim that they will make at the congress will be backed up or demonstrable in some ways. You just can't anymore get away with a cosmetic that says something shady or unproven, At least in Italy. Finally recently Crescina (the Prince of all hairloss scams) was destroyed by a national tribunal process, they even said that "the molecule used in the product in any way can be associated with regrowth of hair in any form, hence the advertisements are declared as false".
I'm really interested in what they will say at the congress, I will take for truthful and sincere every claim they will make, because the study was carried and finished and they can't be that stupid to risk a legal cause for false advertising. Usually cosmetics are not backed with studies or researches like these that we have for this lotion (many exceptions could be found in what I just wrote, but not in the hairloss world, never seen a cosmetics backed by documented studies).
Yes. He said that to me, he also claimed that most of the cases (testers) got like 5 years recovery (but to get that you need atleast 18 months of lotion). And this he wrote to me in February, so just hope that some of his words are legit.

Ofc I have my doubts myself, because 5 years is a pretty big claim. But why would he say something like that so near the meeting if he couldn’t back it up?
 
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Dangman

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The lotion being discovered by accident is already crazy, but one thing that also amazes me is the loophole regarding Dgla and Pge1. Thats insane luck and pretty much somewhat of an idioticy by the people who regulate which drugs have to go through a proper drug trial and which don't.

Also an overlooked and underrated element of this lotion is definitely l carnitine, which actually adds a lot to the regrowth claim.
 

el_rizos

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@The 7TH Sense , I hallucinate with your knowledge and with all the information that you contribute. I wanted to know your opinion about the capacity of the lotion. You doubt the ability to get regrowth or regrowth, I also doubt it. Do you think that you could get a thickening of the weakened or miniaturized hair? Thank you.
 

The 7TH Sense

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@The 7TH Sense , I hallucinate with your knowledge and with all the information that you contribute. I wanted to know your opinion about the capacity of the lotion. You doubt the ability to get regrowth or regrowth, I also doubt it. Do you think that you could get a thickening of the weakened or miniaturized hair? Thank you.

Yes, i definitely think that the lotion has all the credentials to cause even a dramatic regrowth, as well as a strong thickening.

This doesn't mean it will, as I said it's hard to believe, but I mean... Topical estrogen just do wonders. Saying "a topical can't regrow that much hair" is just an idiotic bias based that in our imagination ingesting a pill is more effective than pouring a topical onto some parts of the body. Put some 17-beta-estradiol in your minoxidil solution, wait some months and say welcome to the new hairs (and goodbye to the penis).

I repeat: my lowest expectation to consider the lotion a success is for it to be able to totally substitute finasteride, and I mean to just do exactly what finasteride does but without side effects (thickening and modest regrowth plus maintenance for the majority). Is this possible? Absolutely yes. Is this probable/likely? I think yes, both the Brotzus sayed that this lotion sums up the characteristics of fina and minoxidil, at least in theory. Our current knowledge in regards of hair loss does not contradict this possibility.
 
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