H&w Topical Liposomal Finasteride Vs Oral Finasteride | Page 5 | HairLossTalk Forums

H&w Topical Liposomal Finasteride Vs Oral Finasteride

Discussion in 'Antiandrogens - Propecia, Dutasteride, etc.' started by hairmanic, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. hairmanic

    hairmanic New Member

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    FYI, they found a POSSIBLE LINK, this does not mean hair loss and heart problems are for sure related. A few years back, they found a possible link between cancer and cell phone usage, yet that as of this moment has not stood. You can find associations between a lot of things but that does not mean they are related to one another, there can be numerous confounding variables.

    And again think about it, if there are millions of users of finasteride and the reported side effects from the clinical studies were around 2-5%, then that is still tens of thousands of people reporting side effects, and these are the people who are probably more likely to visit hair loss forums and share their experiences, whereas the majority of people don't experience side effects.
     
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  2. rclark

    rclark Senior Member My Regimen

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    Then what is your theory, @hairmanic? Seriously, why is it they can't find something
    linked to the previous discoveries?

    It's really not the same. It's easy to see what works and doesn't for hair loss, versus other
    diseases, such as dementia.
     
  3. hairmanic

    hairmanic New Member

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    No it's not as easy as you make it out. It's an incredibly complex process much like the rest of the human body . I don't know what your background is, but I have some general knowledge in microbiology and biology, so I can appreciate how difficult it is to figure out how certain diseases work and how difficult it is to manage them. My personal view is that although there have been better documentation regarding Androgenetic Alopecia we still don't have a viable way of reversing it or producing new hair via follicular neogenesis, regenerative medicine is still pretty new in terms of its application.

    For laymen like us it can be simple to say its just growing hair compared to curing cancer or diabetes, but in reality if you do some further research you can begin to understand that theres alot more going on.
     
  4. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    Again, there is still no conclusive evidence on just exactly how much serum, scalp, and intrafollicular DHT each contribute to the process of baldness. Topical 5-AR inhibitors like Alfatradiol work to a degree, which means that reducing scalp/intrafollicular DHT can and does help against baldness even without a reduction in serum levels. A more potent topical inhibitor such as S-Equol could potentially be strong enough to stop hair loss in most people with no systemic reduction.

    Your 'Local DHT receptor blocker' is already here, it's an androgen receptor antagonist called RU58841. On average it works more poorly than Finasteride because blocking of the AR is NOT enough to prevent all the destructive effects of DHT, one of it's more significant damage pathways is through interfering with the estrogen receptor. AR antagonists cannot help with that angle and will be inferior to a treatment that can bind or remove DHT in its entirety.
     
  5. mr_robot

    mr_robot Experienced Member

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    Alfatradiol has never had any clinical tests on men, only women and in those cases results where recorded only by phyiscal examination of hair loss, in fact no growth of hair was observed in the tests on 103 women. The dose in Pantostin is 0.75mg per 3ml application which is 0.025%/ml, the amount of systemic absorption you will get from that kind of dose is negligible. Cosmo did a test versus CB that was at a way higher levels, I think it was 5%, which would almost certainly cause systemic side effects. I have yet to see anything indicating why Alfatradiol is better than Finasteride when applied topically, the method of action seems to be the same: inhibiting 5ar.

    I have not seen any studies indicating the potency of S-Equol in inhibiting DHT in humans. Whilst there is no doubt that it does inhibit DHT I suspect that the quantities would have to be very high, otherwise there would be high instances of DHT related health issues with people who have the S-Equol producing enzyme and a fair amount of soy. And I say this as someone who has been experimenting with S-Equol.

    The problem with RU58841 is that you have a limit in how much you can use before it causes serious side effects, it may be the concentrations being used are not enough even partially block the AR. At high levels you're going to go systemic where as with Finasteride you pretty much have to go systemic for it to work.
     
  6. infinitepain

    infinitepain Established Member

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    We are sensible individuals since we know with the detail the pain of balding, most people out there are simple minded drones.

    My libido is high as fuck and my orgasms are intense, im Sure that if 70% of DHT was removed I would notice it.

    Most if not all people on finasteride would experience this but maybe they don't register it because like I said before they are less sensible overall.

    Literally everyone here using finasteride admited decrease of orgasm intensity. That is within itself a tragedy at the level of lossing hair. It's like getting circumcised or something.
     
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  7. infinitepain

    infinitepain Established Member

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    Why do I keep hearing this?

    If the problem is in the scalp, then why would finasteride need to go systemic to work when you need the action to happen on the scalp?
     
  8. mr_robot

    mr_robot Experienced Member

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    The problem is not in the scalp, it is in the hair follicle. In addition to other organs, 5ar is also produced in the hair follicle, finasteride has to disable the 5ar being produced locally before it can reach T and do the T->DHT. conversion So in-hair follicle produced DHT is not reduced by much, however by going systemic it reduces serum DHT and therefore the total DHT present in the follicle.
     
  9. whoken

    whoken Member

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    Finasterine is like taking care of an ingrown toenail by sectioning the toe entirely.

    Really effective. And you can still live your life with one less toe. But...
     
    #89 whoken, Apr 5, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  10. infinitepain

    infinitepain Established Member

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    This is nonsense. What about the numerous cases of gyno?

    Finasteride goes randomly in parts you don't want, some people get lucky and get most of it in the scalp which is when it works with no sides.

    So my thesis is: Why the fuck not apply it directly into the scalp?

    I have been doing this for 2 years and im still balding tho, but it has worked for others. I don't care because im fucked.
     
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  11. RU serious

    RU serious Established Member My Regimen

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    I'm using 0.1% liposomal topical finasteride every day, I am EXTREMELY sensitive to finasteride pills (I got irreversible gyno from 0.25mg every 3 days) but side effects wise I haven't noticed anything so far apart from minor testicle ache in the initial week or so. 6 weeks in now, no affect on hair yet.
     
  12. RU serious

    RU serious Established Member My Regimen

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    Pain/tenderness around that area. It's not extreme but would have been if I had continued oral finasteride. To also update: I'm getting some other finasteride side effects like reduced ejaculate and slightly weaker erections but not to nearly the same extent as I did with the pills.
     
  13. infinitepain

    infinitepain Established Member

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    Are you on RU?
     
  14. Donny J

    Donny J Established Member

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    i've been applying a 1% liposomial solution from farmacia parati for about 6-7 weeks now and have thus far not experienced any side effects (whereas on the pill, i had sides after 3 weeks). i've definitely experienced a pretty heavy shedding starting at about week 2, lasting 2-3 weeks. i'm hoping the shedding is a good thing and not a "you're fucked and that hair is never gonna grow back" thing..

    ...i'm thinking about bumping up to a 1.5% solution since that's what was initially recommended, but my previous sides from oral turned me to the 1%.
     
  15. INT

    INT Experienced Member

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    This might be the dumbest, most ignorant post I have seen in months.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.
     
  16. INT

    INT Experienced Member

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    Finasteride is a sugar pill?

    Tell me, how is it possible that a 25 year old healthy, muscular, active young guy like me, who used to wake up every morning with a rock hard dick, that had never experienced anything close to ED, is still recovering from ED, one year after quiting, after having used finasteride for 8 months?

    Man my dick must have some serious sugar allergy.

    By the way, I am not calling the kettle black because before I used finasteride I also did not really believe in most of the side effects I had heard about.

    Thinking finasteride is just a sugar pill is extremely ignorant. Yes we all wish that it was a sugar pill that regrew hair and that DHT was just an evil hormone that causes hair loss and prostate cancer but that is far from the truth.
     
  17. INT

    INT Experienced Member

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    Thank God, at least I know that you are a retard now, and I don´t have to contemplate anymore how a sane person could call finasteride a sugar pill.
     
  18. Pacey123

    Pacey123 Established Member My Regimen

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    What the fuck xD
     
  19. INT

    INT Experienced Member

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    I am in great shape. Have been doing bodybuilding for 7 years now. As I said earlier, I never had any complaints before i started finasteride. Again, you seem to have no idea what you are talking about.
     
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  20. INT

    INT Experienced Member

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    8 months.
     
  21. RU serious

    RU serious Established Member My Regimen

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    Just to update on this stuff, it's been about 6 months on the 0.1% solution daily. To estimate I'd say it has slowed down my loss substantially (alongside lowdose seti+nizoral) but I'm not sure whether it is enough, anyway this is the only way I can take finasteride (even upping to 0.2% gave me noticeable finasteride side effects) but I can take comfort in the fact that 1mg of finasteride is going on my scalp every day and my cock still works.
     
  22. Tokato

    Tokato New Member My Regimen

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    You know, the whole idea of topical finas is kind of lacking. There's basically no info. How often do you have to apply it, can you apply it on wet scalp, how much, what concentration ... and so on. I was also thinking about trying it out, but I have not seen any reasuring evidence of it working and not giving sides. I also think that some of you are overestimating the role of DHT. Not saying it's not important, but what might be more important may not even be dht but it's derivates ... just sayin.
     
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