H&w Topical Liposomal Finasteride Vs Oral Finasteride | Page 4 | HairLossTalk Forums

H&w Topical Liposomal Finasteride Vs Oral Finasteride

Discussion in 'Antiandrogens - Propecia, Dutasteride, etc.' started by hairmanic, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. rclark

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    You're still using Alpicort F? The gains you had were amazing. Why did you stop?
     
  2. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    Hell no. Because my libido was non-existent, my nipples were puffy and what used to be a semi before was now a full erection. It's not wise to mess with estrogens as a guy. I know the hair results were great, but long term, it just goes through your whole body causing all sorts of shit. Forget about having a relationship and being on this thing. Even if it gives you the best hair in the world you won't be able to fuck worth a damn. Maybe only a viable treatment for people who are gonna stay single and sexless for life.

    Now I am looking for a reasonable regimen where I can still function sexually.
     
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  3. infinitepain

    infinitepain Experienced Member

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    Used the foam form of finasteride and minoxidil for more than a year and im still balding. 0.1% or 0.25% no matter what, I get no sides, but so what, im still balding so im fucked.
    What I notice is my scalp feels a bit better, but overall it's a mess and I'll be nw2+ soon at this rate.
    Im lost at this point. Tried spironolactone on the weekends topically, useless.
    I wonder if the lipo form would help but I doubt anything helps at this point.
    I will give RU a try, even tho some people say chronically using it is a mistake so I could only use it on the weekends or so, which means im left with a base treatment that doesn't work for the rest of the week.
    Never tried orals because becoming a tranny is not on my plans. Pretty sure orals are always worse than topically applied directly on the scalp and even if I still didn't get sides, it would be of no use, the topical should have worked by now.
    People that say DHT does not matter after puberty sound like the biggest broscientists to me.
     
  4. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    Feminization in men occurs when the effective ratio of androgen to estrogen is lowered. Since sufficient estrogen is produced in normal men to induce breast enlargement in the absence of adequate amounts of circulating androgens, it has been generally assumed that androgens exert an antiestrogenic action to prevent feminization in normal men.

    We do have a couple of broscientists like that around here. Their degree in broscience is usually the result of a lack of any actual degree or understanding of human biology.
     
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  5. infinitepain

    infinitepain Experienced Member

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    Im still trying to understand how is it possible to *not* have sides from finasteride at least orally.

    You are redcing 70% of your DHT, this forces a re-allocation of all kinds of hormones. Up-regulation of testosterone and whatnot, maybe something makes some people not have sides, but for how long is such a configuration tolerable?

    It's like, you are taking pieces out of a puzzle, it must have a consequence.
     
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  6. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    Usually it does, some people are just perhaps more capable of adapting and compensating, whereas others immediately get hit by side effects.
    My hormones were far from OK even before Finasteride (I have some health problems), so it was practically a guarantee that I would get side effects and I did. My nipples started bloating and burning the very first week I started taking it.
     
  7. rclark

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    Sorry to hear that. Your hair results were great though. You dropped to a Norwood zero.

    If I could get Alpicort F, I would. It's not available in the U.S. I'm so fucking old, I just want my hair back.
     
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  8. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    You can almost always get your hair back, the question is, just what manner of nasty side effects are you willing to endure to do so?
    If you don't care there are always meds like estrogen and cyproterone acetate out there for you, but most people would tell you, that their health and staying the same gender as they were born with, would take precedence, that's why most people don't use those.

    Essentially, the cure is already out there, just that the price you have to pay to use it is too damn high.
     
  9. Follisket

    Follisket Established Member

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    And I guess that's the most frustrating part about it. Knowing we could have this shit sorted if science focused on the essential problem.

    There may be a lot we don't know yet about androgenetic alopecia but it's not like we still need to figure out what to do - only how to do it safely. Localizing the effects of antiandrogens or estrogen, limiting them to the scalp. It may not be the only or even the most effective solution but it would at least work.

    With a clear-cut goal like that, you'd think science would have managed to deliver in the past twenty years.
     
  10. MomoGee

    MomoGee Experienced Member My Regimen

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    You are basing your thoughts on the vocal minority. Fact still remains that the majority of people that use finasteride go long term without any side effects despite changes in their hormone levels.
     
  11. Abelibano

    Abelibano Established Member My Regimen

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    Ι agree with the first part. After paying a visit to couple endocrinologists (95% of them knowing less than I did,lol), one of them told me that what really matters is the testosterone/(E1+E2) ratio. It is ok to have higher E1 or E2 hormone levels,as long as testosterone is also high.

    I do not quite agree with the broscience part. In 2017 nobody has an excuse for not being well informed. Use internet and google and learn whatever you need in biology and biochemistry...
     
  12. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    By that second part, I didn't mean that they can't get the knowledge, it's that they choose not to ;)
    Staying intentionally stupid and spouting broscience on a hair loss forum is easier than actually researching a difficult subject.
     
  13. rclark

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    Personally I think it's the money these hair transplant surgeons make. Let's face it, for 10,000 U.S. dollars,
    they can be millionaires.

    A cure, they won't get much of anything.

    In the 1990s, the U.S. was on the forefront of hair technology. Now, we are
    last. And I don't see it ever getting better.
     
  14. infinitepain

    infinitepain Experienced Member

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    Are you refering as the same old merck sponsored studies?

    Pretty much everyone that takes finasteride has noticed some changes. Again, removing 70% of DHT will have an impact on your body, long term it may be a big mistake.
     
  15. infinitepain

    infinitepain Experienced Member

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    What forefront?

    Both finasteride and minoxidil (only treatments proven to do something) were discovered by mistake, not like they were looking for hairt growth)
     
  16. barfacan

    barfacan Established Member

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    If this even works, it will only work due to going systemic. Inhibiting 5ar2 "locally" (if there is such a thing) will do nothing for the other 5ar2 that's constantly converting dht elsewhere in the body, then the dht floating up into the hair follicle receptor and continuing the balding process. The thing that we REALLY need is a local dht receptor blocker. now *thats* a game changer.
     
  17. MomoGee

    MomoGee Experienced Member My Regimen

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/

    The link shows a review of over 70 papers and they show 2.1-3.8% of participants getting sides. Again, I don't deny that side effects do occur, they happened to me aswell. But saying "pretty much everyone that takes finasteride has noticed some changes" doesn't align with any of the studies I have read so far, I am more inclined to believe that most people that go on finasteride don't feel a difference.
     
  18. infinitepain

    infinitepain Experienced Member

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    A quick read and found total bullshit already:


    Bullshit. male pattern baldness has been linked to hearth problems and other health problems. Fuck this shit.
     
  19. rclark

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    That's true about Minoxidil. That was an accident.

    Finasteride, not so much. They knew that it would probably do it. That's why Merk was
    quick to patent not only Finasteride for androgen alopecia, but liquid Finasteride as well.

    The U.S. came out with both in the 1990s (Minoxidil, 1989, I believe).

    Since then where is Histogen? Where is any new medication. Even Bimaprost didn't come
    out. Nothing in the last twenty years. Absolutely nothing.
     
  20. hairmanic

    hairmanic New Member

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    Kind of going into conspiracy theory there. It's much easier to believe these than face the harsher reality that there simply isn't a cure for hair loss at the moment. If by that logic, you would assume then that the tens of thousands of people who research and develop treatments are simply doing so that they can earn a buck? And if so is there a cure out there which is being hidden by some illuminati group? It just doesn't make sense logically. There are plenty of people motivated for curing diseases for many more reasons rather than just money.

    You can't just throw time at a problem and hope that it will follow a linear progression of results, science just does not work that way even if we want it to.
     

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