Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[StevenGerrard]

So, androgyny? That’s most of our goals...

I don't think that is the goal he was going for -- given that a) he has always sported facial hair at some capacity b) from what I've read he has never bothered to shave or wax his body hair c) he made it very clear during the first 15 pages or so (of this thread) that the only reason he embarked on this regimen was to regrow his hair.

I have seen this all too often on body building forums, skinny guys that start lifting (then roiding) -> achieve the perfect physique and for whatever reason quadrupled their dosage and turn into Ronnie Coleman freaks -- what I'm trying to say is, he has achieved exactly what he was aiming for, it wouldn't hurt to take a break and try to hold on to his hair gains with Duta/Loniten

 

[Ikarus]

I don't think that is the goal he was going for -- given that a) he has always sported facial hair at some capacity b) from what I've read he has never bothered to shave or wax his body hair c) he made it very clear during the first 15 pages or so (of this thread) that the only reason he embarked on this regimen was to regrow his hair.

I have seen this all too often on body building forums, skinny guys that start lifting (then roiding) -> achieve the perfect physique and for whatever reason quadrupled their dosage and turn into Ronnie Coleman freaks -- what I'm trying to say is, he has achieved exactly what he was aiming for, it wouldn't hurt to take a break and try to hold on to his hair gains with Duta/Loniten

Androgyny is an off-centre goal, and is expected when you are on estradiol. I don’t understand Mr. Wolfs issue; just because his regimen is based on constant hormonal shifts, doesn’t mean we have to follow that. In fact, his regimen can active episodes of Telogen Effluvium in some people.

If you stop a strong regimen, you can give yourself the same issue @itchymadscalp had. You can not maintain on 5AR inhibitors; DHT isn’t the only hormone to cause hair loss. Bridge previously has shown someone on Reddit who used a 5AR inhibitor along with estradiol, and after the person stopped estradiol, their hair loss prevailed.

 

[Gaz121]

You should be at 600 pmol/L to 1000 pmol/L.

Is it dangerous to be at around 10,000 pmol/L?

Have you measured your E levels and if so, what result did you get?

 

[Ikarus]

Is it dangerous to be at around 10,000 pmol/L?

Have you measured your E levels and if so, what result did you get?

Mine is 719 pmol/L...

 

[I'mme]

Yeah honestly bridge you're starting to look like a woman. If that's what you want okay but you should know your sort of in this uncanny valley right now where you don't look quite like a man or a woman.

Yeah but that's mostly due to ultra smooth skin (retin-A being contributor) and no facial hair (beard and moustache). If he grows some facial hair he would still pass off as a man.
But as I see, his goals are different from normal guys like us and he should persist with whatever he wants.
(Sidenote - I prefer clean people than some of those dirty high-in-DHT and T guys so there's some bias.)

 

[Ikarus]

Yeah but that's mostly due to ultra smooth skin (retin-A being contributor) and no facial hair (beard and moustache). If he grows some facial hair he would still pass off as a man.
But as I see, his goals are different from normal guys like us and he should persist with whatever he wants.
(Sidenote - I prefer clean people than some of those dirty high-in-DHT and T guys so there's some bias.)

I just don't understand how it's anyone's business... If he's looking more feminine nowadays, so what? And, some of the advice some people give to others on this website is ludicrous. Stopping all of these medications and switching to dutasteride to 'maintain'?

 

[I'mme]

I just don't understand how it's anyone's business... If he's looking more feminine nowadays, so what? And, some of the advice some people give to others on this website is ludicrous. Stopping all of these medications and switching to dutasteride to 'maintain'?

Um.. dude I didn't advice him anything *at all*. I merely said that he would still look male if he grows hair. This isn't advice - it's telling some simple observational fact. Here I didn't ask him to do that - quite the opposite in fact - refer last para for that.

Yeah, I'm disputable regarding maintenance with duta - we don't know anything for sure.

 

[I'mme]

I just don't understand how it's anyone's business... If he's looking more feminine nowadays, so what? And, some of the advice some people give to others on this website is ludicrous. Stopping all of these medications and switching to dutasteride to 'maintain'?

I previously said hair can be maintained with duta because T isn't much Androgenic by itself. DHT is ((far)) more potent androgen.

 

[Ikarus]

I previously said hair can be maintained with duta because T isn't much Androgenic by itself. DHT is ((far)) more potent androgen.

I wasn't referencing you. Nonetheless, it can't be maintained with dutasteride because testosterone is still an androgen. If that was the case, 5AR inhibitors could be used without decline, but there hasn't been a single case where someone has them with the results lasting permanently. Look at what happened to @itchymadscalp.

Um.. dude I didn't advice him anything *at all*. I merely said that he would still look male if he grows hair. This isn't advice - it's telling some simple observational fact. Here I didn't ask him to do that - quite the opposite in fact - refer last para for that.

Yeah, I'm disputable regarding maintenance with duta - we don't know anything for sure.

I wasn't referencing you, I was referring the person I responded to earlier on.

 

[I'mme]

I wasn't referencing you. Nonetheless, it can't be maintained with dutasteride because testosterone is still an androgen. If that was the case, 5AR inhibitors could be used without decline, but there hasn't been a single case where someone has them with the results lasting permanently. Look at what happened to @itchymadscalp.



I wasn't referencing you, I was referring the person I responded to earlier on.

Some on tressless have maintained for more than 10/15 years, but those are rare species lol.

/I wasn't referencing you, I was referring the person I responded to earlier on./
Yeah, thanks!

 

[Derelict]

I just don't understand how it's anyone's business... If he's looking more feminine nowadays, so what? And, some of the advice some people give to others on this website is ludicrous. Stopping all of these medications and switching to dutasteride to 'maintain'?

How you feel about yourself when you look in the mirror, that's all that matters. If bridge is happy then that should be it, i don't think it's right to judge someones appearance on a site where people come because they are not comfortable with it in the first place.

 

[Ikarus]

Some on tressless have maintained for more than 10/15 years, but those are rare species lol.

/I wasn't referencing you, I was referring the person I responded to earlier on./
Yeah, thanks!

Maintaining for ten of fifthteen years seems reasonable, if you haven't started out on strong medications. I would like to see if Mr. Wolf can maintain on dutasteride though, that'll be real interesting!

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Um.. dude I didn't advice him anything *at all*. I merely said that he would still look male if he grows hair. This isn't advice - it's telling some simple observational fact. Here I didn't ask him to do that - quite the opposite in fact - refer last para for that.

Yeah, I'm disputable regarding maintenance with duta - we don't know anything for sure.

I beg to disagree. His facial fat have deposited in female like pattern. He wouldn’t be able to pass as a man even if grows a beard.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I beg to disagree. His facial fat have deposited in female like pattern. He wouldn’t be able to pass as a man even if grows a beard.

I think a decent amount of facial hair would serve as a more noticeable gender clue than facial fat. And unless every stranger he currently encounters refers to him initially as a female I think he's likely still "passing" for a guy. Granted, he could probably choose to be perceived either way if he wanted since he has great androgynous features.

 

[whatintheworld]

I think a decent amount of facial hair would serve as a more noticeable gender clue than facial fat. And unless every stranger he currently encounters refers to him initially as a female I think he's likely still "passing" for a guy. Granted, he could probably choose to be perceived either way if he wanted since he has great androgynous features.

Facial fat is one thing, but it almost seems like his jaw structure has changed as well. The entire geometry of his face has become more feminine, it is incredible how potent hormonal changes can be.

I would have legitimately thought him as a girl from birth from that last photo.

 

[pegasus2]

I haven't seen the 73 year old on sprio before. That is very surprising. I wonder what would've happened if he had taken minoxidil too. You'll notice though on all of these older men who get regrowth it's always wispy. They never regrow thick hair with the exception of wounding which creates new follicles. The question is, why are these old men able to revive some of the hairs throughout the vertex, but not the others? They've all been long gone, so what makes the ones that come back so special? And if a follicle can come back after that long, why can't we get all of ours back if it's only been 5-10 years?

It is so hard to figure out the many ways in which hair growth and loss work. Unless you make your living in hair research there's no way you'll ever have time to crack the code. We will have the cure long before we fully understand the mechanisms behind it all.

 

[Yar]

But my philosophical question is why is there a point of no return or is the contrary true? It really is important to get to the bare bottom of this enigma.

If anyone can please elucidate, that would make me sleep in peace.

Is there light at the end of the tunnel for men balding for more than 10 years?

Here are some cases proving how this can be the case:

1. Took this man 6 years to regrow a good portion of hair off spironolactone: "This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone." Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1977262

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Extreme case solely from ONE AND ONE DRUG only with a balding duration of 45 years. This alone suffices to give me enough hope as I am a diffuse Norwood 3/3v balding for 8 years now.

2. BBQ 78 year old man burns scalp and regrows hair:

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3. Reversal of male pattern baldness for 75 year old man balding for 30 years. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1498062/?page=1

4. Just when it couldn't get better. A 90 Year Old Man Regrows Hair Off Topical Zinc Thymulin: Source: https://www.longdom.org/open-access/an-analysis-of-the-safety-and-efficacy-of-topical-zincthymulin-to-treat-androgenetic-alopecia-2167-0951-1000147.pdf

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So I beg anyone for the life of me, please help me better understand what it means when people say no point of return given the aforementioned case studies?

I strongly feel that the reason why most treatments - and even to SOME extent HRT - fails in REGROWING full heads of hair is because they share one thing in common: tackling one or a few layers of the Androgenetic Alopecia avalanche.

What we really need is an atomic bomb tackling every single problematic layer that is caused by Androgenetic Alopecia. A multi-faceted treatment plan that consists of:

1. E2 and progesterone to reverse the fibrosis, calcification, and hypoxia layers and encourage stem cell proliferation and cross talk signaling with the various modulators (FGF-7, PGE2, VEGF, WNT-10b, etc.);
2. Anti-DHT concoctions to tackle the DHT causation layer;
3. Supplements to tackle the malnourished follicular and inflammatory layer;
4. Iodine to tackle the thyroid disorder layer as adequate T3 production is A DIRECT TARGET FOR HAIR FOLLICLE GROWTH;
5. Green tea or another potent anti-stress agent to tackle the oxidative stress layer;

I think you get the point. You can't just place your focus on one type of treatment. It has to be synergistic otherwise your chance of success may be low or you full regrowth may not be achievable.

Thoughts????

spironolactone makes you body produce progesterone which protects the prostate from androgens

 

[Derelict]

nvm

 

[Yar]

so which is more effective: spironolactone or E2?

spironolactone with estradiol only, 50-100 mg spironolactone + 1-2 mg estradiol. for the night

 

[I'mme]

I beg to disagree. His facial fat have deposited in female like pattern. He wouldn’t be able to pass as a man even if grows a beard.

Facial fat is one thing, but it almost seems like his jaw structure has changed as well. The entire geometry of his face has become more feminine, it is incredible how potent hormonal changes can be.

I would have legitimately thought him as a girl from birth from that last photo.

In that pic angle is different and he is smiling. He didn't have protruding jaw before if you see his pics. The only difference I see is lack of facial hair and more facial fat.
If hormones were that powerful, trans people would have easier time transitioning, but this sure isn't the case. Most MTF cases I have seen always upload their worst pic before transition (or one of the worst) and their best pic after transitioning (with loads of makeup and feminising products). There's nothing wrong with it - I'm saying this just to prove that it's not *that* easy for everyone to look like opposite gender just by using hormones. Sure, some guys like Ikarus, me etc would have easier time because we already look androgynous to begin with ( I had shaved yesterday and was told by 3 friends that I'm looking very feminine).