Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Pls_NW-1]

I saw plenty of pictures on the old discord server, hard to remember because it was a while back but he had a brillaint recovery imo, so glad for him, bica and estradiol alone worked wonders, i think he still wasn't happy so added the 5mg oral min later on.

Can you remember what other effects he got from his regimen, really interested. And also if he actually recovered back, to a NW1? And if he is still able to maintain. Oh, and can I get the Discord Link? Haha

I'm really sorry!

 

[Almas]

I asked my friend who had bad hair loss too at your age, and he said that you should use 50mg of bicalutamide per day. 25mg is not enough, and that’s the dosage recommended for women. You should also use 2mg of estradiol per day, 1mg in the morning and 1mg at night. And, you should use 5mg of oral minoxidil per day.

I started Bicalutamide 50mg + Finasteride. I don’t know what result I will get. I would like to get an increase in hair thickness, my temples do not have dead follicles, but the hair is very thin and does not fulfill its function, many are transparent
I'm trying to achieve an effect without causing strong feminization

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I asked my friend who had bad hair loss too at your age, and he said that you should use 50mg of bicalutamide per day. 25mg is not enough, and that’s the dosage recommended for women. You should also use 2mg of estradiol per day, 1mg in the morning and 1mg at night. And, you should use 5mg of oral minoxidil per day.

Good to see you posting again.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Has anyone seen success with that regimen? I heard that someone got full reversal with 50mg Bicalutamide 2mg estradiol. Is there any before and afters?

I just started 50mg spironolactone 1mg Estradiol .75mg estrogel ( I have been taking finasteride for 3 years and Oral minoxodil 5mg for 11 months)

I have posted @bridgeburn's two main protocol several times as two examples that we know work. It may be on this thread but I posted them a couple a days ago on the Hair is not Life thread. I have posted mine too but I don't want to be presumptuous.

"I just started 50mg spironolactone 1mg Estradiol .75mg estrogel ( I have been taking finasteride for 3 years and Oral minoxodil 5mg for 11 months)" This sounds pretty good and it should get you at least close to adult female target levels so I hope that is your goal.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I started Bicalutamide 50mg + Finasteride. I don’t know what result I will get. I would like to get an increase in hair thickness, my temples do not have dead follicles, but the hair is very thin and does not fulfill its function, many are transparent
I'm trying to achieve an effect without causing strong feminization

There's a mild debate about whether estrogen is needed for best results but we will follow your progress with interest. I am not certain that AA's are less feminizing by themselves than is estrogen but we don't really know because feminization is vague as a term. We know what average adult female target levels are but that will definitely feminize someone. I hope it works for you without estrogen but I should also that the MtF's generally only go 90 days, if that, without estrogen when using an AA.

Some physicians start patients off on say spironolactone for 90 days to purportedly re-set the axis which probably isn't necessary but that's the safe threshold before bone and mineral loss, iiuc.

 

[Gergely]

Can you remember what other effects he got from his regimen, really interested. And also if he actually recovered back, to a NW1? And if he is still able to maintain. Oh, and can I get the Discord Link? Haha

I'm really sorry!

He mentioned at one point that do to his age he experienced noticeable hip growth.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I saw somewhere a before picture and he was almost bald. Like literally... it was pretty bad, almost no hair, pretty thin, diffuse thinning. But I never saw an after picture. What I saw is a mid-treatment picture. Tbh he got a crazy feminization effect. Because of that I am concerned to take those harsh things. I want to still be a male, kinda, and pass as a male. Oof.

I mean, getting bica is already very hard for me, I just got finasteride. But Estradiol!?!? Never will be able to touch that...

Is it possible to get some regrowth with sufficient bica dose + finasteride? Or just maintenance for a good amount of time?

What makes you think that estrogen is more feminizing than bica or spironolactone or CPA?

 

[Almas]

There's a mild debate about whether estrogen is needed for best results but we will follow your progress with interest. I am not certain that AA's are less feminizing by themselves than is estrogen but we don't really know because feminization is vague as a term. We know what average adult female target levels are but that will definitely feminize someone. I hope it works for you without estrogen but I should also that the MtF's generally only go 90 days, if that, without estrogen when using an AA.

Some physicians start patients off on say spironolactone for 90 days to purportedly re-set the axis which probably isn't necessary but that's the safe threshold before bone and mineral loss, iiuc.

One of the forum participants advises me to use Spironolactone and estradiol. He says it’s not the andrgenes, but the SHBG protein. This explains why spironolactone has such an effect on hair. I'm confused...
He says he only achieved regrowth of 50mg spironolactone and 1.5 estrogen.

 

[ReturnOfExtreme]

I started Bicalutamide 50mg + Finasteride. I don’t know what result I will get. I would like to get an increase in hair thickness, my temples do not have dead follicles, but the hair is very thin and does not fulfill its function, many are transparent
I'm trying to achieve an effect without causing strong feminization

Add 5mg oral min

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

One of the forum participants advises me to use Spironolactone and estradiol. He says it’s not the andrgenes, but the SHBG protein. This explains why spironolactone has such an effect on hair. I'm confused...
He says he only achieved regrowth of 50mg spironolactone and 1.5 estrogen.

Ultimately, it comes down to spironolactone's effects on the pertinent receptors. It tends to crowd out androgens although it is not very strong as an AA in some ways. What you are proposing should work somewhere between sort of and very well although I don't know what the time frame would be. I think that things move more quickly with say four mg of estradiol although 1.5 mg should reset the axis. Anyway, what you are proposing is going to be somewhat feminizing in the abstract. In reality, MtF feminization is often curtailed and incomplete and breast growth is usually meager to eh but there are no guarantees.

One issue is that lower amounts of estrogen might trigger immediate breast growth. I used to mention this a lot but we have new people posting so I might address the feminization vel non issues.

 

[Almas]

@Yar told me he got small breasts. Damn it, this dude solved the Androgenetic Alopecia secret. Judging by his results, he is right. The problem is in the SHBG protein ... It's a pity that he shares little of his thoughts
So, there are 2 possible options:
50mg Bica + 1mg Finasteride
50mg spironolactone + 1.5 estro

The first option is based on the androgen theory, and the second on the SHBG theory. The person was able to get results, it works! I am very excited about this information, it seems to be the answer to the puzzle ...

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

@Yar told me he got small breasts. Damn it, this dude solved the Androgenetic Alopecia secret. Judging by his results, he is right. The problem is in the SHBG protein ... It's a pity that he shares little of his thoughts
So, there are 2 possible options:
50mg Bica + 1mg Finasteride
50mg spironolactone + 1.5 estro

The first option is based on the androgen theory, and the second on the SHBG theory. The person was able to get results, it works! I am very excited about this information, it seems to be the answer to the puzzle ...

I am unaware of his SHBG theory. Very few adult cis-males develop much breast growth which I reiterate often. However, I have pretty big ones so there are no guarantees. It's risk/reward and people from "busty" families tend to develop more. I never advise AA's to anyone except for provera, duta and finasteride but they are all wpath compliant so people have to decide whether they are worth the serious risks of cis-male use in the short-term and CPA and Bica have serious long-term effects for males and females in the long-run. Estrogen is a natural endogenous hormone. In terms of safety, I rank the AA's like this:
1. spironolactone is the safest overall.
2. Bica is next in terms of safety
3. CPA is last

So again though we have a wrinkle. The safest and cheapest med causes by far the most side effects in terms of daily life and spironolactone is for many people just not that fun. Again, though, I was using 200 mg to 300 mg and that's too much for most people. I also titrated poorly. I have posted many pics of my bald head which I sort of blame on a combination of being rash and spironolactone being jarring to the system.







I will say that if an MtF gal asked me for a good protocol for breast growth starting out then it would be yours. If someone wanted an anti-breast protocol, then I would advise using much more estrogen. I know it makes no sense unless you go through the process of menarche to completion of the Tanner scale but less estrogen equals bigger breasts ceteris paribus. That's why this is so challenging. I use to think that males could do this more easily and effectively but it didn't pan out for me.

 

[Almas]

Мне неизвестна его теория SHBG. У очень немногих взрослых цис-мужчин наблюдается значительный рост груди, о чем я часто повторяю. Но у меня довольно большие, поэтому никаких гарантий нет. Это риск / награда, и люди из «грудастых» семей склонны к большему развитию. Я никогда никому не советую АА, кроме провера, дута и финастерида, но все они совместимы с wpath, поэтому люди должны решить, стоят ли они серьезных рисков употребления цис-мужчинами в краткосрочной перспективе, а у CPA и Bica серьезные долгосрочные последствия для мужчин и женщин в долгосрочной перспективе. Эстроген - это естественный эндогенный гормон. С точки зрения безопасности я оцениваю AA следующим образом:
1. спиронолактон в целом самый безопасный.
2. Bica - следующая по безопасности
3. CPA последняя

Итак, опять же, у нас есть морщинка. Самый безопасный и дешевый препарат вызывает наибольшее количество побочных эффектов в повседневной жизни, а спиронолактон для многих не так уж и интересен. Тем не менее, я снова принимал от 200 до 300 мг, и это слишком много для большинства людей. Я тоже плохо титровал. Я опубликовал много фотографий своей лысины, в которых я виню как бы сыпь, так и воздействие спиронолактона на организм.







Я скажу, что если бы девушка из MtF попросила меня дать хороший протокол для начала роста груди, то он был бы вашим. Если кому-то нужен протокол против груди, я бы посоветовал использовать гораздо больше эстрогена. Я знаю, что в этом нет никакого смысла, если вы не пройдете через процесс менархе до завершения шкалы Таннера, но чем меньше эстрогена, тем больше грудь при прочих равных условиях. Вот почему это так сложно. Раньше я думал, что мужчины могут делать это легче и эффективнее, но мне это не удавалось.

I'm not good at estrogen. Why do you say that the higher the estrogen dose, the smaller the breasts? It sounds very strange ...
I don't think spironolactone is the safest. Bick's only side effect is gynecomastia

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I'm not good at estrogen. Why do you say that the higher the estrogen dose, the smaller the breasts? It sounds very strange ...
I don't think spironolactone is the safest. Bick's only side effect is gynecomastia

I can provide references related to safety but eh, it comes down to the individual. Bica and CPA are less kind to the liver but none of them are great. I think that progesterone might be a better solution but that hasn't been tested that much as an AA although Dr. Will Powers uses it that way.

What makes using estrogen in males so difficult is that just lowering dosage is likely to send signals to the endocrine system to commence breast growth. The body appears to perceive small amounts of estrogen initially as the beginning of menarche when cis-females produce very low amounts of the different estrogens, primarily estrone at this point if I recall correctly. Theoretically, using large doses do the opposite. The endocrine system says "oh no. Too much estrogen, time to turn off breast growth, more or less.

So you have to look at estrogen levels in cis-females from approximately 12 years old to 20 to understand this paradox. Also, MtF's tend to use these meds forever so you do have to look to liver effects. Are you planning on being on bica forever? Do you have a plan for maintenance if you do reach your goals? Duta might do it and Noah who isn't around much lately is trying that but I think that some regression towards recession is likely. The last pics I saw, he had slight issues in the temples but for one year without hormones except duta, it was pretty good maintenance. He is also very young and that makes a difference.

 

[Almas]

I can provide references related to safety but eh, it comes down to the individual. Bica and CPA are less kind to the liver but none of them are great. I think that progesterone might be a better solution but that hasn't been tested that much as an AA although Dr. Will Powers uses it that way.

What makes using estrogen in males so difficult is that just lowering dosage is likely to send signals to the endocrine system to commence breast growth. The body appears to perceive small amounts of estrogen initially as the beginning of menarche when cis-females produce very low amounts of the different estrogens, primarily estrone at this point if I recall correctly. Theoretically, using large doses do the opposite. The endocrine system says "oh no. Too much estrogen, time to turn off breast growth, more or less.

So you have to look at estrogen levels in cis-females from approximately 12 years old to 20 to understand this paradox.

Bicalutamide is much safer than CPA for the liver, it almost never causes problems

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Bicalutamide is much safer than CPA for the liver, it almost never causes problems

I didn't deny that. I wouldn't touch CPA personally. I would only try bica if I thought it would help my hair restoration but my hair is restoring without AA's except for progesterone, duta and MPA, none of which work the way that the big three AA's do, which is by spoofing higher estrogen/lower T levels. Progesterone and medroxyprogesterone work more like most people would expect an AA to work. They actually lower T levels and can do so significantly. Bica and spironolactone raise circulating T so that is why none of this is straightforward.

We don't have a lot of data related to long-term use of AA's. Remember all of these came out of prostate cancer research. You can browse Transfeminine Sciences on reddit so there's no point in my trying to argue about something that MtF's are not sure about but the main gal there ranks the three the way that I did. Some would put bica ahead of spironolactone. Everyone puts poor CPA last and it isn't approved in the U.S. Arguing about which AA is best is an MtF past-time and we all love chiming in with our two cents. The more radical among us eschew all AA's save progesterone perhaps but you pays your money and you takes your chances as the famous quote goes....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I know this might seem like I go hot and cold about the prospects for cis-males of using HRT. We know that it can work but this is a life-changing decision as well. I had to decide if I was non-binary MtF or not before I could commit to it and I ended up like @bridgburn using loads of estrogen, not marginal amounts.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Oh, I just noticed I got temple/hairline miniaturization/recesion as well. I dont know what to do :/

male pattern baldness started when I started puberty. And now I am only 17 1/2 years old...

I just started finally finasteride yesterday after 4months of convincing doctors giving me a prescription. But I feel like finasteride won't do much.

Btw. Hair loss is not an excuse to transition, even for a cis-male, like me.

I am... _devastated_ ...

Feeling bad today, might kill myself later lol

 

[Almas]

View attachment 156240

Oh, I just noticed I got temple/hairline miniaturization/recesion as well. I dont know what to do :/

male pattern baldness started when I started puberty. And now I am only 17 1/2 years old...

I just started finally finasteride yesterday after 4months of convincing doctors giving me a prescription. But I feel like finasteride won't do much.

Btw. Hair loss is not an excuse to transition, even for a cis-male, like me.

I am... _devastated_ ...

Feeling bad today, might kill myself later lol

I have found that 5ar inhibitors are powerless if you start to go bald at an early age. They haven't helped anyone yet. There was a man with the nickname ikarus. He said correctly: "If you go bald before 20, you don't even have to bother with AR inhibitors."

We need Bicalutamide or spironolactone

 

[Pls_NW-1]

I have found that 5ar inhibitors are powerless if you start to go bald at an early age. They haven't helped anyone yet. There was a man with the nickname ikarus. He said correctly: "If you go bald before 20, you don't even have to bother with AR inhibitors."

We need Bicalutamide or spironolactone

Yeah, I am thinking of using 50mg bica + 100mg spironolactone to reduce the T spike to normal levels. Bica is used only in castrated males for long term, so you need to reduce T to make bica "work".

So bica depends on the concentration of androgens and the concentration of itself.

But I wonder if I can achieve cosmetical changes... I doubt I wil.

How's your side effect profile developing, Almas?