Dr john Crisler Discusses his fears on finasteride

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Mens Rea

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Good post Enden.

I have a final three questions for you Dr. Crisler. Please take your time and answer i think these are critcial.


Firstly, where you do find that a person has increased reductase I activity (either via THF/5-a-THF, or AN/ET, and/or serum/urine DHT testing) ...what next? I spoke of this to my endo and he said there's an old saying in medicine alone the lines of "if you dont know what to do with the results, the test itself isn't worth taking". Is this the case here?

In relation to this, i have read that an increase in free testosterone levels can help 3-adiol-G levels so that may be connected somehow.

Secondly, do you believe Cortisol levels are an important factor here or not? Are you seeing any trend whereby your PFS patients exhibit low cortisol levels.

Lastly, are you are all interested in the low vitamin D levels alot of people on propecia help seem to have?
 
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Mew

Experienced Member
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Mew has been talking about a couple of neurohormones, but from what I've read, they're made by 5AR Type 1. I've asked Mew about this a couple of times, but he doesn't answer.
Click to expand...

I don't recall you posing this question to me before, but I have answered it.

In addition to Testosterone --> DHT, 5AR1 and 5AR2 metabolize neurosteroids (Progesterone --> Allopregnanolone, Deoxycorticosterone --> THDOC).

See diagrams here:

viewtopic.php?p=593293#p593293

Specifically:

download/file.php?id=7323&mode=view
download/file.php?id=7324&mode=view
download/file.php?id=7328&mode=view
 
E

Ende

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Yeah, make fun of me. Maybe you're not so different from the rest of your kind after all. We'll see who's right. If this problem is irreversible as you're suggesting, at least I'll give your suicide statistics a raise.
 
M

Mens Rea

Senior Member
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Enden,

Two things i think we should all bear in mind:

As a doctor, Dr Crisler, Dr Shippin etc are searching for blanket answers in this debate. That's why they'll be non-comittal to any specific theory - especially a more simplistic one. They have hundreds of patients with hormones etc all going opposite directions. Remember this.

Dr Crisler will tell you himself different patients respond to different treatments. He will also tell you many cases people have improved etc. No two cases are exactly the same.

You and and I aren't treating 100's of other people - just ourselves. We just have to find out what works for us.

I mean, if we both recover next month by using a specific protocol of an AI for instance, that'd be great. It would be a "case solved" for us personally, but it wouldn't impact the overall field that much.

A generic theory doesn't always apply to you. Especially an obscure, imprecise and un-developed one.

This is the same for all hormone related things.

Some people take TRT and need it for the rest of their lives. That is the conventional wisdom. But some also can recover their own T production naturally. I know a guy, who after 5 years, go off TRT.

Anyway, regardless of any doctors theory, however complex, many people improve over time. This trend is obviously independent of any theory.
 
DoctorHouse

DoctorHouse

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Dr Crisler can Propecia affect your IGF-1 levels in any way? I have very high levels for my age(44) and I have been tested for acromegaly with the GTT and I showed no signs of it. I had an excellent advanced MRI of the pituitary and it came back normal. I dont have any symptoms of acromegaly. I dont consume dairy or use any type of muscle supplements. My levels were rising for a while but they came done on my last blood test. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis too. Could that have any effect on my IGF-1 levels?
 
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He-Bat

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Dr. Crisler. Do you believe the 2% side effects are true or is it all BS. How many men who take propecia, do you think, suffer from sexual side effects, it must be more that 2%
 
M

Mens Rea

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My IGF-1 levels are high too


Serum IGF-1 46.8 nmol/L (15-45)


I attribute that, atleast some what to high E2 and possibly low DHT. Why? Because E2 upregulates IGF-1 whilst DHT downregulates it. High E2 and low DHT would contribute to high IGF-1.

Opinion on this Dr Crisler?


My last tests showed high Iron levels too. Getting them checked again, i think i was on multi-vitamins at the time.


Iron 30.7 umol/L (11-28)
Saturation 48.3% (30 - 40)
 
DoctorHouse

DoctorHouse

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Dr. John Crisler said:
DoctorHouse said:
Dr Crisler can Propecia affect your IGF-1 levels in any way? I have very high levels for my age(44) and I have been tested for acromegaly with the GTT and I showed no signs of it. I had an excellent advanced MRI of the pituitary and it came back normal. I dont have any symptoms of acromegaly. I dont consume dairy or use any type of muscle supplements. My levels were rising for a while but they came done on my last blood test. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis too. Could that have any effect on my IGF-1 levels?
Click to expand...
What is your IGF-1?

Acromegaly is specifically the condition of inappropriate growth secondary to profound GH production. You could develop a pituitary issue long before it shows up in this way.

What led you to have your IGF-1 tested?

The dairy/growth hormone thing is a COMPLETE non-issue. The so-called health food industry is crying wolf.
Click to expand...
My IGF-1 levels on the first blood test was 401, then it went to 500s and low 600's and now recently down to the 300s. My endo tested those levels because I was complaining of fatigue alot and thought I was going to have very low IGF-1 levels but was surprised to find them higher than normal for my age. He also checked my cortisol levels and they were slightly high but nothing too bad and have come down recently. My iron, vitamin D, insulin all were excellent. My thyroid antibodies are rising and my thyroid levels are still remaining in the normal range but on the edge of almost hypothyroid. He just put me on synthroid and it has made a world of difference mentally( no more brain fogginess and less feelings of anxiety) and physically. I asked him if the Propecia could affect the IGF-1 levels and he said no. He said the fact that my IGF-1 levels went down was a good thing but he is going to still do blood work along with my thyroid testing every three months.

You said one could develop a pituitary issue before acromegaly shows up? Are you saying it is possible to not show anything on the MRI with the pituitary yet it will still have an issue? Does the thyroid have any indirect effect on the IGF-1 levels? Are there any supplements or herbs that can affect IGF-1 levels? I used to take DIM( diindolylmethane) supplements and he thought that might have cause my levels to go up but even after I quit DIM my levels still were rising.
 
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barcafan

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Enden said:
Yeah, make fun of me. Maybe you're not so different from the rest of your kind after all. We'll see who's right. If this problem is irreversible as you're suggesting, at least I'll give your suicide statistics a raise.
Click to expand...

I think an answer or at least a bandaid solution will be discovered real soon, theres just too many people suffering now and ALOT of doctors/researchers getting onboard, i think we'll be hearing alot of developments in the near future
 
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Prop

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dr crisler, i want to ask you if u have some standard protocol
for recognize a genuine post fina syndrome

i went to many uro-andro but i want something undoubtable to show them
 
Cassin

Cassin

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babis

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Dear Dr Crisler,

There is evidence that the acne medication Accutane (Isotretinoin) inhibits type 5-alpha reductase type I (not type II, like finastride).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8175961

Do you think this is more than a coincidence? Could the hormones imbalances caused by inhibiting 5-alpha reductase type I lead to a cluster of symptoms analogous (but not exactly the same) as those of type II?

Have you seen patients with erectile dysfunction from Accutane? (I am one of those unlucky people... I developed hypogonadism, with low-normal testosterone, and autonomic dysfunction).

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
 
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