Dr john Crisler Discusses his fears on finasteride
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bigjohnson
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STOP SCARE MONGERING!! finasteride IS UR FRIEND!! almmost 6 years no sides! new users are going to come here and read all this bad crap about finasteride (which is the most effective and least side effect treatment available now for male pattern baldness) then they're gonna go out and spend a fortune eating wheat grass taking unregulated vitamins and pouring all these ridiculous snake oils on themselves in a failed attempt to save their hair.
beaner
Senior Member
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"Dr" Crisler used to send me messages full of profanity and anger to my YouTube account after I criticized one of his videos. I could have sworn I was dealing with a 12 year old. He's an extremely unprofessional human being and there is a thread on HLH where he appeared and ranted like a psycho.
There is something dreadfully wrong with that man.
There is something dreadfully wrong with that man.
unk:I believe you are. If you don't mind answering some questions; what's your opinion about the condition we're dealing with? Why are you reluctant to use aromatase inhibitors to treat PFS patients, when excessive estradiol, and thereby DHT deficiency, appears to be the main reason for side effects from finasteride? Do you acknowledge the significance of hormone ratios (especially testosterone and estradiol) and treat your patients according to symptoms?
You think it's changes in the brain chemistry, and not secondary hypogonadism due to DHT deficiency, excessive estadiol and suppressed testosterone level which is the reason for persistent side effects?
In my experience, hormone ratios are the only thing that really matters. Most doctors will take a look at your hormone values, see that they're in "normal range" and close the case. Without a healthy testosterone/estradiol ratio, you don't have any morning erections. Too much prolactin in relation to dopamine, and it affects sexual arousal and the refraction period negatively. Too much estradiol in relation to DHT, and you get symptoms of DHT deficiency, like transparent prostate fluid.
Do you acknowledge DHT as an endocrine hormone, and as an estradiol antagonist?
In my experience, hormone ratios are the only thing that really matters. Most doctors will take a look at your hormone values, see that they're in "normal range" and close the case. Without a healthy testosterone/estradiol ratio, you don't have any morning erections. Too much prolactin in relation to dopamine, and it affects sexual arousal and the refraction period negatively. Too much estradiol in relation to DHT, and you get symptoms of DHT deficiency, like transparent prostate fluid.
Do you acknowledge DHT as an endocrine hormone, and as an estradiol antagonist?
Anyway, we all appreciate your- and your colleagues support in this case. Most doctors don't believe us. If you really want to do us a favor, make the FDA demand a blood test to map hormone levels, before doctors prescribe Propecia. Our hormone values usually appears normal despite of symptoms of hypogonadism. We have no proof of altered hormone levels, and a lot of us don't get any professional help.
Dr. can you tell me, do you know if men with higher DHT levels are less likely to experience sides from finasteride. I know 4 man that take finasteride, 3 are very hairy and have alot of facial hair and are slim, and they have no sides. The other guy has almost no body hair, shaves every 4 days and is slightly overwight, and he got terrible sexual sides from finasteride. Is there a pattern, in your professional experience?
Dr. Crisler,
I just want to say thank you for taking the time to acknowledge the Finasteride issues and doing your part to help many in need. You are still focused to help others no matter how challenging a medical issue can be. You don't just focus on the easy diagnosis. I can't say the same about many other Dr.'s.!... which is what Dr.'s originally signed on for!
sincrely,
Tim
I just want to say thank you for taking the time to acknowledge the Finasteride issues and doing your part to help many in need. You are still focused to help others no matter how challenging a medical issue can be. You don't just focus on the easy diagnosis. I can't say the same about many other Dr.'s.!... which is what Dr.'s originally signed on for!
sincrely,
Tim
That's my point exactly. Don't you think that those men who have good testosterone level, but still are having symptoms of hypogonadism, are dealing with imbalance, rather than androgen resistance? The body converts a lot more hormones when you have a supraphysiological level of testosterone, which may shift some ratios, especially T/E, though usually in favor of E. If you then use an AI, the table will turn.Dr. John Crisler said:
Me and a couple of other guys have responded to treatment with a low dose of Proviron. I responded drastically within a week with 25 mg a day. It was a part of my experimenting to find a way to manage side effects from finasteride, and I quit in fear of hairloss, although I didn't notice any. Another guy, which had been using finasteride and dutasteride for many years before he got into trouble, took one 25 mg Proviron tablet, after a couple of weeks with 50 - 100 mg zinc every day, where he managed to recover morning erections. He had them for 2 days before Proviron treatment, and he exploded. He described it as being 16 years old again, and it lasted for several days before he crashed. There is one more who is currently experimenting with Proviron, and after 4 days with 25 mg a day, he reported improvement. His plan is to do one week of treatment, and I expect no less from him. How is this possible if we're dealing with androgen resistance?
Dr Crisler
thanks for the interesting posts. I must say its refreshing for you to have the decency to join this forum and discuss this instead of hiding behind secretarys and other such red tape.
I personally think, as you seem to touch up, DHT metobolism appears to be very much distorted in many PFT patients. People with "normal" DHT levels are exhibiting less than normal 3-adiol-G or THF/5-a-THF ratios. I think this is a vital clue. Treating this is another issue, of course but one step at a time.
Personally i have high serum T levels but also higher E2 levels:
Oestradiol 183 pmol/L (28-156)
Serum Testosterone 32.6 nmol/L (10-34)
I've had problems for about a year now. Despite being off the drug since 9 motnhs now my condition hasn't improved. No "crash" as such.
Personally i think my high levels of E2, caused by finasteride, but never rectified after cessation has slowly ate at me (libidio, ED, penile shinkage, watery semen)
My FSH is around the 2.0 mark. I believe this is connected to the semen issue. My semen problems came after cessation (although i suspect persistent high E2 slowly drove down my FSH levels)
I intend to try an AI, most likely aromasin for a month to see if i can reset my E2 levels. Aromasin will free up testosterone, lower SHBG and importantly, normalise my E2. DHT should increase alongside all of this naturally.
I've been told (albeit by in the know bodybuilders) to use a SERM like Clomid alongside this to help stimulate FSH levels. I'm unsure of doing this though.
I'm not asking for advice, but surely, despite the complexities, trying to rectify patent hormonal imbalances is a first step. I mean, even if something else in my body is making my E2 levels high, the fact that they are high, and have been for potentially years is bloody dangerous and should be addressed. Many from the medical community are saying estrogen is even the main player in prostrate problems for instance.
I am aware of the risks of HPA and endoctrine surpression but im hoping AI's aren't really something that would do that (unlike something like proviron for instance) and instead help healthy HPA reset Thoughts?
thanks for the interesting posts. I must say its refreshing for you to have the decency to join this forum and discuss this instead of hiding behind secretarys and other such red tape.
I personally think, as you seem to touch up, DHT metobolism appears to be very much distorted in many PFT patients. People with "normal" DHT levels are exhibiting less than normal 3-adiol-G or THF/5-a-THF ratios. I think this is a vital clue. Treating this is another issue, of course but one step at a time.
Personally i have high serum T levels but also higher E2 levels:
Oestradiol 183 pmol/L (28-156)
Serum Testosterone 32.6 nmol/L (10-34)
I've had problems for about a year now. Despite being off the drug since 9 motnhs now my condition hasn't improved. No "crash" as such.
Personally i think my high levels of E2, caused by finasteride, but never rectified after cessation has slowly ate at me (libidio, ED, penile shinkage, watery semen)
My FSH is around the 2.0 mark. I believe this is connected to the semen issue. My semen problems came after cessation (although i suspect persistent high E2 slowly drove down my FSH levels)
I intend to try an AI, most likely aromasin for a month to see if i can reset my E2 levels. Aromasin will free up testosterone, lower SHBG and importantly, normalise my E2. DHT should increase alongside all of this naturally.
I've been told (albeit by in the know bodybuilders) to use a SERM like Clomid alongside this to help stimulate FSH levels. I'm unsure of doing this though.
I'm not asking for advice, but surely, despite the complexities, trying to rectify patent hormonal imbalances is a first step. I mean, even if something else in my body is making my E2 levels high, the fact that they are high, and have been for potentially years is bloody dangerous and should be addressed. Many from the medical community are saying estrogen is even the main player in prostrate problems for instance.
I am aware of the risks of HPA and endoctrine surpression but im hoping AI's aren't really something that would do that (unlike something like proviron for instance) and instead help healthy HPA reset Thoughts?
Dr. Crisler, can you tell me, do you know if men with higher DHT levels are less likely to experience sides from finasteride. I know 4 man that take finasteride, 3 are very hairy and have alot of facial hair and are slim, and they have no sides. The other guy has almost no body hair, shaves every 4 days and is slightly overwight, and he got terrible sexual sides from finasteride. Is there a pattern, in your professional experience?