Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[whatevr]

stop whining.

No.

 

[sunchyme1]

There is no OMG HAIR moment with any anti-androgen, never was, never will be. Unless you mean OMG HAIR... IT'S ALL STILL FALLING OUT.

Darolutamide seems to be incredibly dodgy so far considering it's supposed to be the world's 'strongest' AA. f*** that. AA's are a dead end anyway. Let's keep searching.

you not gonna try it mate?

 

[furrydome]

There is no OMG HAIR moment with any anti-androgen

Well, I don't know about that.

Story: I started RU at 7.5% once per day and after maybe 2 or 3 weeks I looked at my slick bald temples and thought "looking a little fuzzy there, probably just imagining it". Shaved the spot to get a better view of any growth. Sure enough after another 2 weeks I had rough stubble where it had been bare skin for 5+ years.

So far nothing so dramatic with daro, just continuing maintenance of that same spot. <-- kind of suggests there's a problem other than androgen sensitivity in these older bald areas

 

[Quickstrike]

Can't even ship this sh*t into Canada.

Gang Luo sent another package out to me and it got caught up in customs as well.

Guess that is the world today. You ship some unknown chemical from China and everyone thinks it's narcotics.

 

[Sanchez1234]

I just made a batch of 0.35%. Gonna apply 1.5ml everyday at night for the next few months.

I still have doubts but these are my rationale:
- @IdealForehead posted a few weeks ago he had Telogen Effluvium the first 2 months from strong anti-androgens. So i should at least try it a few months at this level.
- i have no sides. I had some sides in the beginning but those went away.
- i have nothing else to try after duta finasteride seti ru cb minoxidil... so its my last hope.

 

[Sanchez1234]

My vehicle is 50%PG, 40%ETH and 10% water. This is okay right? Cant use minoxidil right before sleeping.

 

[Recon_s]

Well, I don't know about that.

Story: I started RU at 7.5% once per day and after maybe 2 or 3 weeks I looked at my slick bald temples and thought "looking a little fuzzy there, probably just imagining it". Shaved the spot to get a better view of any growth. Sure enough after another 2 weeks I had rough stubble where it had been bare skin for 5+ years.

So far nothing so dramatic with daro, just continuing maintenance of that same spot. <-- kind of suggests there's a problem other than androgen sensitivity in these older bald areas

what brand RU are you using? ive been on Chemyo RU for 9 months at 5% applying about 1.5ml and my hair has gotten worse thinking of changing RU supplier before I call it quits on RU

 

[furrydome]

what brand RU are you using? ive been on Chemyo RU for 9 months at 5% applying about 1.5ml and my hair has gotten worse thinking of changing RU supplier before I call it quits on RU

Chemyo. Maybe try a higher %?

Given the side effects I got from Chemyo RU 7.5% after moving to 2x/day, it's hard to deny that the stuff is legit. Packet says July 2017.

 

[Recon_s]

Chemyo. Maybe try a higher %?

I shed so much more while on this brand RU, I took a two week break off everything and I don't see as much hairs falling. I don't think higher % will help. I also go zero noticeable sides.

 

[furrydome]

I shed so much more while on this brand RU, I took a two week break off everything and I don't see as much hairs falling. I don't think higher % will help. I also go zero noticeable sides.

I think it's dangerous AF, but you could just keep raising the dose until you get sides. See here... that's from Chemyo RU

 

[whatevr]

you not gonna try it mate?

f*** no. Not unless at least 2-3 people here post convincing progress pictures. I'm not dumping 500 USD for something that may not even work. In choosing between continuing to go bald for 500 vs. for 0, I choose the latter.

 

[CopeLikeThePope]

There is no OMG HAIR moment with any anti-androgen, never was, never will be. Unless you mean OMG HAIR... IT'S ALL STILL FALLING OUT.

Darolutamide seems to be incredibly dodgy so far considering it's supposed to be the world's 'strongest' AA. f*** that. AA's are a dead end anyway. Let's keep searching.

By AA you mean androgen antagonists? You include finasteride et al too? In that case, what do you expect? Hairloss is obviously related to androgens, if you don't lower your androgens, you are fucked, which is why hairloss is such a f*****g scam, you have to choose from virility to feminized f***** in hopes it doesn't keep falling.

The only hope is topicals applied on the scalp minimizing impact on the bloodstream but so far I haven't seen sh*t that truly works. And when it comes to androgen receptor inhibitors like RU, spironolactone duralotamide... I actually consider them a bit of a dead myself, since from what i've read the receptor could become used to it and backlash on you creating further loss eventually, unlike inhibiting 5ar. Too bad topical finasteride is useless in my experience.

 

[whatevr]

By AA you mean androgen antagonists? You include finasteride et al too?

I include everything that lowers or inhibits the activity of androgens in any way. Personally, I failed on Finasteride after being on it for a year, so it's a dead drug to me. Lucky those for whom it works.

if you don't lower your androgens, you are fucked, which is why hairloss is such a f*****g scam, you have to choose from virility to feminized f***** in hopes it doesn't keep falling.

That is a result of our treatment methods still being too primitive to target the molecules directly responsible for hair loss. In reality, the androgens don't really matter - it's all the downstream inflammation and growth inhibiting factors that really need to go. It is entirely possible to stop and reverse hair loss without touching androgens, there are more and more methods coming up on the horizon every day that will prove this to be true. The filament scalp threading is one of those that looks promising, for example.

At it's core you are dealing with a balance of growth inhibiting and growth promoting factors, and you have to tip the scale in your favor.

The only hope is topicals applied on the scalp minimizing impact on the bloodstream but so far I haven't seen sh*t that truly works.

You've said it yourself - the results from inhibiting androgens are maintenance or slight regrowth at best, and all the topicals tried so far have very poor effectiveness. The androgen angle is far from the best course of action, otherwise the results would be much better. It's just what we are stuck with for the moment.

Personally I've used Finasteride, RU58841, various forms of estrogen, corticosteroids, and a lot of other sh*t and it all comes with serious side effects that I now have to recover from. These days I only experiment with totally non-hormonal methods because I'm already damaged and can't take any more. Currently I'm having some interesting results but we will see in the long term if there is any merit to this regimen.

 

[Sanchez1234]

I include everything that lowers or inhibits the activity of androgens in any way. Personally, I failed on Finasteride after being on it for a year, so it's a dead drug to me. Lucky those for whom it works.



That is a result of our treatment methods still being too primitive to target the molecules directly responsible for hair loss. In reality, the androgens don't really matter - it's all the downstream inflammation and growth inhibiting factors that really need to go. It is entirely possible to stop and reverse hair loss without touching androgens, there are more and more methods coming up on the horizon every day that will prove this to be true. The filament scalp threading is one of those that looks promising, for example.

At it's core you are dealing with a balance of growth inhibiting and growth promoting factors, and you have to tip the scale in your favor.



You've said it yourself - the results from inhibiting androgens are maintenance or slight regrowth at best, and all the topicals tried so far have very poor effectiveness. The androgen angle is far from the best course of action, otherwise the results would be much better. It's just what we are stuck with for the moment.

Personally I've used Finasteride, RU58841, various forms of estrogen, corticosteroids, and a lot of other sh*t and it all comes with serious side effects that I now have to recover from. These days I only experiment with totally non-hormonal methods because I'm already damaged and can't take any more. Currently I'm having some interesting results but we will see in the long term if there is any merit to this regimen.

What will be your regimen from now on?

 

[whatevr]

What will be your regimen from now on?

I don't like making hype over nothing, and I refuse to say anything about it until I am sure that it works long-term (i.e. at least 3 months). It's only been 3 weeks. If it turns out to have some merit and is reliable over time then I will post about it in my thread, complete with pictures.

 

[jjoshh8]

What happened to Idealforehead?

 

[Jesse Navarro]

He retreated, after you started to doubt his wig like hair.

 

[IdealForehead]

Can't even ship this sh*t into Canada.

Gang Luo sent another package out to me and it got caught up in customs as well.

Guess that is the world today. You ship some unknown chemical from China and everyone thinks it's narcotics.

There is no law that I am aware of to prevent import into Canada. He should be able to clear it through customs with proper documentation.

If you find out there is a law that prevents it, please let us know. As far as I know this is not a controlled nor prescription or regulated in any way compound anywhere.

I suppose Bayer/Orion probably have a patent on it. But that doesn't prevent you from buying it. I'm not sure if that prevents you from importing it. Technically, it should prevent Luo from manufacturing it. But customs doesn't as a routine matter try to enforce patents or track where things were made and whether that violates patents.

They simply don't consider that part of their job, unless there is a court order against an illegal vendor that they are enforcing.

At least that's my understanding of it. Like I said, if you find out anything different let us know for future reference. I'm not an expert on this and I'm just trying to figure it out as I go like anyone else.

 

[IdealForehead]

I just made a batch of 0.35%. Gonna apply 1.5ml everyday at night for the next few months.

I still have doubts but these are my rationale:
- @IdealForehead posted a few weeks ago he had Telogen Effluvium the first 2 months from strong anti-androgens. So i should at least try it a few months at this level.
- i have no sides. I had some sides in the beginning but those went away.
- i have nothing else to try after duta finasteride seti ru cb minoxidil... so its my last hope.

My vehicle is 50%PG, 40%ETH and 10% water. This is okay right? Cant use minoxidil right before sleeping.

I use 50% PG, 30% ethanol, and 20% water when I'm mixing my custom vehicle.

Yes you are correct, I had 2 months of intense shedding from Telogen Effluvium when I went on minoxidil and the heavy orals then transitioning to daro.

All hair treatments require at least 3-6 months to even stop the shedding process as telogen effluvium can occur if the treatments are effective. Additionally, as has been said on this forum 100 times - hair that is already damaged from androgens or other factors to past the critical point will fall out no matter what you do before any chance of regrowing.

So there is at least a 3 month lag before shedding can slow or stop.

At this point, I'm shedding so little it's honestly surreal. There's almost nothing that comes out in the shower. Again, almost nothing when I apply my topicals falling into the sink. I just checked my pillow. I haven't washed my sheets in who knows how long (I live alone and don't give a f***) and there was literally one hair on either side of the pillowcase.

I've never lost this little hair on a daily basis in my entire life. Even as a teenager I used to shed like crazy.

 

[IdealForehead]

My point exactly...there is a rule of thumb on this site if your gonna preach something you better be able to prove it and back it up....overloading people with great information on the topic does not prove anything it just takes the focus off not providing the proof. So many people are such gullible sheep on here

The problem with your post is you assume I want to convince other people to use it. I don't!

In fact, it is my preference that NO ONE ELSE uses it as I explained previously in this thread because this is an untested unregulated experimental compound with plenty of possible long term risks.

Obviously everyone is responsible for their own decisions. I've tried to be clear about the potential pros and cons as I've researched them, but I've said many times I don't have all the answers.

If 10 years from now there turns out to be a major problem with this drug, I don't want to have to worry about that for anyone except myself. I'm comfortable with any and all potential risks ... FOR MYSELF personally. Even if there are no new long term issues, the possible long term issues we're already aware of could be bad enough (bone density, fertility).

I've got absolutely nothing to prove. And yes, I am that paranoid. I'm really really paranoid. HAHA that's just me I can't help it. I don't post pictures of me online on forums in any form and never have.

I posted since September very aggressively because I was desperately looking for a solution for my continued hair loss, especially in the context of an ongoing forehead reduction for which I can't afford to EVER lose hair again.

I tried spironolactone/cypro and oral minoxidil. I previously tried finasteride/dutasteride/RU. Then I got on daro. I've been on it 2.5 months now and I consider my androgenic alopecia "solved".

I simply don't worry about long term hair loss any more. That's my story. I don't care what you believe. I barely like saying any of this at all. I've thought about stopping posting many times during this thread and wrote that as well. At one point I deleted a bunch of posts when I was on a paranoid marijuana bender because like I said, I'm not here to promote anything.

I came to solve my problem. I have enjoyed the forum. There are lots of great people here! It's been very fun and I've learned a lot. I tried to share what I learned in part for my own documentation (easier than keeping notes) and to see if anyone had other ideas and brainstorm.

But I have no interest in living on a hair forum for the rest of my life or "defending" a treatment I don't even think anyone should be using.

After my forehead reduction is done, I look forward to living the rest of my life with fantastic hair and zero further worries about hair loss. As long as I can tolerate the daro, I know I'll be fine.