Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[IdealForehead]

Question for any other lab rats trying Daro - did it dissolve 100% clear in your base solution? Can you see any particles at all when holding it up to light?

I mixed a 0.1% Daro using K&B solution as the base (can't handle the PG in minoxidil liquid). It seems completely dissolved from a casual glance but up close and under light it looks like there are some very faint floaters, like it's almost dusty.

Trying to determine if this vehicle is going to work or if the particles are too big to absorb.

I never found K&B to be a very effective solvent in general. I hated using it even for RU. Mine dissolves completely in Kirkland minoxidil at least to my eyes.

If you're talking about tiny almost imperceptible drops of transparent residue on the surface, that might be solvent impurities. If it's dusty to a significant extent, try dissolving some in some Kirkland minoxidil or 50 PG / 30 Eth / 20 water to compare.

 

[SteveTabernack]

Compounds with too short a serum half life (like RU58841) will almost universally avoid systemic side effects, but likely will degrade too quickly in the skin as well to get the desired effect. There is a balance that exists between half life, effectiveness, and side effects.

So how come I had harsh sexual sides on even minor RU doses.. is my body just a total b**ch when exposed to all things antiandrogen?

But, if there is a chance to avoid sexual side effects with Daro due to it not crossing blood brain barrier.. my desperation has probably reached heights that make me willing to risk giving it a go.

Could probably cope with most sides besides anything dick related for legit hair treatment anyway.

Gonna have to hit up this Luo guy to see if he can get it into a safetyfirstcuck country like Denmark.

Were any of you quoted on a price for just 1g?

 

[IdealForehead]

So how come I had harsh sexual sides on even minor RU doses.. is my body just a total b**ch when exposed to all things antiandrogen?

But, if there is a chance to avoid sexual side effects with Daro due to it not crossing blood brain barrier.. my desperation has probably reached heights that make me willing to risk giving it a go.

Could probably cope with most sides besides anything dick related for legit hair treatment anyway.

Gonna have to hit up this Luo guy to see if he can get it into a safetyfirstcuck country like Denmark.

Were any of you quoted on a price for just 1g?

The funny thing about daro is it's the only antiandrogen that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. So it's unique.

It definitely in my experience doesn't reduce mental sexual desire. I still have loads of that. Too much. I hate it.

But on the other hand it still can theoretically bind to androgen receptors peripherally in the body, for example, in the dick which can cause things like possibly penile atrophy or theoretically reduced penile responsiveness to sexual stimulation.

I don't know. No one does. I've said before I'm a terrible candidate for monitoring for sexual side effects since my sexual function goes up and down with my mood. I also quit p**rn mostly in the past few months so that will probably play a role too.

All I can say is use at your own risk.

My hair is starting to look like a wig though. So that's fun. I'm happy enough with the hairline now I'm gonna definitely start re-expanding the expander as soon as new year hits. Time to get this thing done.

 

[SteveTabernack]

The funny thing about daro is it's the only antiandrogen that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. So it's unique.

It definitely in my experience doesn't reduce mental sexual desire. I still have loads of that. Too much. I hate it.

But on the other hand it still can theoretically bind to androgen receptors peripherally in the body, for example, in the dick which can cause things like possibly penile atrophy or theoretically reduced penile responsiveness to sexual stimulation.

I don't know. No one does. I've said before I'm a terrible candidate for monitoring for sexual side effects since my sexual function goes up and down with my mood. I also quit p*rn mostly in the past few months so that will probably play a role too.

All I can say is use at your own risk.

My hair is starting to look like a wig though. So that's fun. I'm happy enough with the hairline now I'm gonna definitely start re-expanding the expander as soon as new year hits. Time to get this thing done.

I forget, did you try orals before (finasteride/dutasteride) and have sides?

Theoretically, the best chance of avoiding daro to bind to androgen receptors in other parts of the body would be to to use lowest possible effective dose, and a vehicle that doesn't penetrate too efficiently, correct?

With such small amounts of powder needed, I probably need to procure a scale that measures smaller increments than the one I used for RU. Which scale do you use?

 

[IdealForehead]

I forget, did you try orals before (finasteride/dutasteride) and have sides?

Theoretically, the best chance of avoiding daro to bind to androgen receptors in other parts of the body would be to to use lowest possible effective dose, and a vehicle that doesn't penetrate too efficiently, correct?

With such small amounts of powder needed, I probably need to procure a scale that measures smaller increments than the one I used for RU. Which scale do you use?

finasteride and dutasteride don't work on me. I took 2.5 mg of dutasteride a day and still had normal DHT levels. So they're like placebos for me.

spironolactone 200 mg a day killed my sexual function by around 70%.

Cypro 100 mg a day killed my sexual function by around 95%.

And like I said I can't really identify an obvious change on daro either way.

My scale looks like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jewelry-Mi...450311?hash=item4b1451c4c7:g:tXMAAOSwfVpYtCny

It's impossible for any effective topical to not penetrate into your blood stream to some extent based on the fact that the dermal papilla which we must target for anti-androgenic blockade is at the level of an enormous amount of blood supply.

I went into more detail on this subject previously here.

But yes, vehicle makes a difference to a degree. ie. Avoid DMSO. If you want lower penetration use less alcohol also. Mostly it's about titrating the dose to the lowest needed for topical hair loss blockade, and then just crossing your fingers and hoping you can tolerate the amount that spills over into the blood circulation.

I'll probably be dropping my dose to 0.15% soon (from 0.2%) as I still have mild dry eyes on 0.2% and although it's tolerable, it's not going to be ideal long term. All trial and error.

 

[Sanchez1234]

finasteride and dutasteride don't work on me. I took 2.5 mg of dutasteride a day and still had normal DHT levels. So they're like placebos for me.

spironolactone 200 mg a day killed my sexual function by around 70%.

Cypro 100 mg a day killed my sexual function by around 95%.

And like I said I can't really identify an obvious change on daro either way.

My scale looks like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jewelry-Mi...450311?hash=item4b1451c4c7:g:tXMAAOSwfVpYtCny

It's impossible for any effective topical to not penetrate into your blood stream to some extent based on the fact that the dermal papilla which we must target for anti-androgenic blockade is at the level of an enormous amount of blood supply.

View attachment 74124
I went into more detail on this subject previously here.

But yes, vehicle makes a difference to a degree. ie. Avoid DMSO. If you want lower penetration use less alcohol also. Mostly it's about titrating the dose to the lowest needed for topical hair loss blockade, and then just crossing your fingers and hoping you can tolerate the amount that spills over into the blood circulation.

I'll probably be dropping my dose to 0.15% soon (from 0.2%) as I still have mild dry eyes on 0.2% and although it's tolerable, it's not going to be ideal long term. All trial and error.

You take 2x 2ml 0.2% everyday right?
I am upping my 1ml a day dose from 0.1% to 0.2% tonight because 0.1% is doing nothing so far. My sides are way less since i switched to minoxidil verhicle. Dont know if thats a good thing but i will find out soon enough.

And i thought i read something about stability in vehicle but cant seem to find it.
How long is daro good to use in minoxidil vehicle do you think? And do you store it in fridge or just the room?

 

[IdealForehead]

You take 2x 2ml 0.2% everyday right?
I am upping my 1ml a day dose from 0.1% to 0.2% tonight because 0.1% is doing nothing so far. My sides are way less since i switched to minoxidil verhicle. Dont know if thats a good thing but i will find out soon enough.

And i thought i read something about stability in vehicle but cant seem to find it.
How long is daro good to use in minoxidil vehicle do you think? And do you store it in fridge or just the room?

I store room temp. I can't see any reason it wouldn't be stable. But I'm only mixing 20 mL at a time as I like to adjust dose periodically.

I'm using 0.2% daro. I shower at night, so I apply 2 mL after showering, and then I apply 1 mL to just the hairline/temples again in the morning. This means 6 mg per day.

I will be cutting to 0.15% soon (4 mg per day).

Keep in mind I am not just using daro. My formulation is:

0.2% darolumatide
5% minoxidil
5% niacinamide
2.5% panthenol
1% desloratadine
0.2% caffeine

All those agents were chosen for a reason, and they are probably all contributing to my success in some way. Though of course daro and minoxidil are the most important. I also don't have very aggressive balding genetics. I was hitting NW2.5 at my worse (thinning to NW3) after 10 full years of balding (from the time I first noticed my hairline pulling back at the corners).

 

[Sanchez1234]

I store room temp. I can't see any reason it wouldn't be stable. But I'm only mixing 20 mL at a time as I like to adjust dose periodically.

I'm using 0.2% daro. I shower at night, so I apply 2 mL after showering, and then I apply 1 mL to just the hairline/temples again in the morning. This means 6 mg per day.

I will be cutting to 0.15% soon (4 mg per day).

Keep in mind I am not just using daro. My formulation is:

0.2% darolumatide
5% minoxidil
5% niacinamide
2.5% panthenol
1% desloratadine
0.2% caffeine

All those agents were chosen for a reason, and they are probably all contributing to my success in some way. Though of course daro and minoxidil are the most important. I also don't have very aggressive balding genetics. I was hitting NW2.5 at my worse (thinning to NW3) after 10 full years of balding (from the time I first noticed my hairline pulling back at the corners).

I am thinking about copying everything you have exept minoxidil. You follow new research, do you not thinkt of alternative new growth stimulants that might helpt (instead of minoxidil)?

 

[SteveTabernack]

Keep in mind I am not just using daro. My formulation is:

0.2% darolumatide
5% minoxidil
5% niacinamide
2.5% panthenol
1% desloratadine
0.2% caffeine

All those agents were chosen for a reason, and they are probably all contributing to my success in some way. Though of course daro and minoxidil are the most important. I also don't have very aggressive balding genetics. I was hitting NW2.5 at my worse (thinning to NW3) after 10 full years of balding (from the time I first noticed my hairline pulling back at the corners).

You can dissolve all that in just Kirkland minoxidil?

 

[IdealForehead]

You can dissolve all that in just Kirkland minoxidil?

Yup. Or 50 PG / 30 eth / 20 water.

There were other things I would like to be using (keto, phenytoin) but they have poor solubility. These all dissolve easily.

 

[IdealForehead]

I am thinking about copying everything you have exept minoxidil. You follow new research, do you not thinkt of alternative new growth stimulants that might helpt (instead of minoxidil)?

Only other one was stemoxydine but it has sh*t solubility and most people said it didn't work very well. If you have any other suggestions I'm open-minded but this is already a cure for me as long as I can handle it.

Don't know why you'd leave out the minoxidil. It's one of the best proven stimulants in existence.

 

[peewee]

I store room temp. I can't see any reason it wouldn't be stable. But I'm only mixing 20 mL at a time as I like to adjust dose periodically.

I'm using 0.2% daro. I shower at night, so I apply 2 mL after showering, and then I apply 1 mL to just the hairline/temples again in the morning. This means 6 mg per day.

I will be cutting to 0.15% soon (4 mg per day).

Keep in mind I am not just using daro. My formulation is:

0.2% darolumatide
5% minoxidil
5% niacinamide
2.5% panthenol
1% desloratadine
0.2% caffeine

All those agents were chosen for a reason, and they are probably all contributing to my success in some way. Though of course daro and minoxidil are the most important. I also don't have very aggressive balding genetics. I was hitting NW2.5 at my worse (thinning to NW3) after 10 full years of balding (from the time I first noticed my hairline pulling back at the corners).

So you dropped RU?

 

[IdealForehead]

So you dropped RU?

Yeah like a week or two ago. Feel better without it, even if it's just psychological. No need for that nonsense.

 

[peewee]

Yeah like a week or two ago. Feel better without it, even if it's just psychological. No need for that nonsense.

weren't you on a very high dose RU? So you think .2% or .15% is stronger than the high dose RU you were using?

 

[IdealForehead]

weren't you on a very high dose RU? So you think .2% or .15% is stronger than the high dose RU you were using?

Absolutely. I was on 7.5% 2 mL twice daily of RU which is 300 mg a day. This I think starts becoming a messy drug at these high doses.

The problem is it has a short half life both in the serum and likely in the scalp so you have to blast high levels to keep it from dropping to subtherapeutic levels between administrations. This leads to fluctuations of high-low levels in the blood as well. I don't think it becomes very clean at all at those doses.

I did a thorough comparison of RU and daro here in two posts:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...conversion-of-ru58841-to-darolutamide.109065/

The first post addresses the strength comparison in a test tube. The second post addresses the fact that daro has a much longer half life, and thus it is even stronger by comparison in real life use.

I am fairly certain 0.1% daro is dramatically stronger than 7.5% RU but time will tell.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Only other one was stemoxydine but it has sh*t solubility and most people said it didn't work very well. If you have any other suggestions I'm open-minded but this is already a cure for me as long as I can handle it.

Don't know why you'd leave out the minoxidil. It's one of the best proven stimulants in existence.

Well, i took minoxidil without anything for 8 months without results so i am looking for something new.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Just upped dose to 0.3% 1.5ml once a day. No sides, no tingling, 0 results.

Still need to shake for like 60 minuted and it quite annoying. Anybody got an idea how to automate this?

I looked at the robart painter on a video but it seems like really small vibrations. Will that work? Still 50usd with transfers costd

 

[jjoshh8]

Just upped dose to 0.3% 1.5ml once a day. No sides, no tingling, 0 results.

Still need to shake for like 60 minuted and it quite annoying. Anybody got an idea how to automate this?

I looked at the robart painter on a video but it seems like really small vibrations. Will that work? Still 50usd with transfers costd

This is all starting to look like bs
One member with fantastic results and everyone else gets nothing. Doesn't smell right

 

[SpaceInvader]

Just upped dose to 0.3% 1.5ml once a day. No sides, no tingling, 0 results.

Still need to shake for like 60 minuted and it quite annoying. Anybody got an idea how to automate this?

I looked at the robart painter on a video but it seems like really small vibrations. Will that work? Still 50usd with transfers costd

One month in. Still nothing...

I did recently started using minoxidil like almost two weeks now. My latest preparation is 40 mg in 20 mL Kirkland minoxidil 5% mixed with a gram of Niacinamide. Doing 1-2 mL twice a day. Using it along Polaris NR-10, Estrogel, BiEstro, and Estriol. So far the itching remains during the course of the day.

You should use Kirkland 5% at least as a vehicle. It stays moist on the scalp for a long time unlike my crappy preparations previously. So far I have found it to be the best vehicle for Daro. Place it in a glass container with everything in it and submerge it in hot water in a pan. That will heat it up and give a few shakes and it should dissolve completely, you probably don't even need the shaker, just don't use too much. I had a tiny chunk that didn't dissolve in my last batch but it finally completely dissolved as I kept using up Daro. So far it's pretty clear. I'm applying it with a blunt-tip syringe.

 

[HairCook]

Well, OP didnt post picture proof. So there is that.

Also, did you guys get your odm tested?

I think odm is better than mdv in many aspects. I am not a fan of either cause both pull the full androgen plugs instead of just reducing dht, mdv just happens to cross the blood brain barrier more than odm, to an extent that it increase chance of seizure if too much ends up systematically, and I see a lot of people say that it works only that way. Considering op used DMSO at the beginning this might be the same case for odm?
Also, considering the inflammation cascade started already and went on to rage on your scalp, you might get something to calm down the inflammations, like seti. In fact, its receptor crth2 aka gpr44 has shown to inhibit neogenesis of the hair follicle. Maybe using diclofenac for a while to deal with scalp inflammation would deal with the itch. you can later go down to one time a week or something. The cascade might be stopped this way. You can also incorpe selenium disulphide (once a week due to some hair growth negative effects).

I would prefer a pgd2 receptor inhibitor all day.

In the end you can also not really expect any regrowth only on odm, as this is just attacking the negative cascades of Androgenetic Alopecia without inducing any proactive stimulation. If the OP had massive regrowth then it happened probably because a) odm went systemetically, and b) his HFs were still pretty healthy.