Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide? | Page 20 | HairLossTalk Forums

Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

Discussion in 'Antiandrogens - Propecia, Dutasteride, etc.' started by JLF, May 4, 2017.

  1. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    My thoughts exactly, Spaniard.

    Also two updates for me:

    1) Eye dryness
    Still getting eye dryness. Partly this might be my fault for another reason. I mixed up a batch of some skin serum to try to counteract negative effects from minoxidil and just for general anti-aging use described here. But I think I used an instrument during mixing that may have been contaminated with daro, so I'm pretty sure I've been putting daro serum on my face and eyes the past week. Cut that out just since yesterday and eyes are already better today, though still dry.

    I did have eye dryness even on just RU, so I expect I am prone to this and this will be my problem to balance with any anti-androgen long term. Ideas: Testosterone/DHT gel to the eyelids to compensate, and if that doesn't work, I may try to get some stronger synthetic steroids like wynstrol and put that in some eye gel to apply. That's gonna be a fucking nightmare trying to get that, so I hope it doesn't come to that.

    2) RU
    I've been using 0.2% daro with 7.5% RU. I've been keeping the RU since I've been on RU 2 years and didn't want to stop it until I was sure of the daro.

    I'm now quite sure of the daro. My hairline keeps getting better. I'm gonna quit the RU as of today.

    I figure daro will be cleaner long term as it has more stable levels, doesn't cross the BBB, and since the number of mg is so low, there will be less significant exposure from contaminants, or just any potential intrinsic carcinogenicity of RU or its metabolites.

    For reference, I am using, as of tonight:

    5% Kirkland minoxidil as base
    0.2% daro
    5% niacinamide (B vitamin, anti-sebum, anti-inflammatory, cheap as dirt)
    2.5% panthenol (another B vitamin, what "Pantene" got their name from, supposed to be good for hair, but a bit sticky, cheap as dirt)
    1% desloratadine (antihistamine)
    0.2% caffeine
     
    #381 IdealForehead, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  2. SpaceInvader

    SpaceInvader Established Member My Regimen

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    No, but are you also using minoxidil separately?

    Or you're dosing this like me, without any minoxidil?
     
  3. furrydome

    furrydome Established Member My Regimen

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    Not sure about systemic absorption, but I remember reading that K&B was designed to minimize transfer to other people
     
  4. SpaceInvader

    SpaceInvader Established Member My Regimen

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    Well I started using Polaris NR-10. I also have some Kirkland minoxidil on the way that will be used as the vehicle for Daro and will be using both.
     
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  5. Jonnyyy

    Jonnyyy Senior Member My Regimen

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    @IdealForehead I microwaved my solution and the Daro dissolved after a good 70% of the vehichle evaporated. What am I doing wrong?
     
  6. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    Wut. Hahaha. I have no idea what you're doing.

    Here's how it works for me:

    1) Measure my daro and other powders using my mini scale.
    2) Pour them one by one into a 50 mL amber bottle (source) using a mini funnel with the neck cut shorter so it doesn't clog (can use a paperclip to push things down if it gets stuck) (source)
    3) Pour in ~20 mL of Kirkland Minoxidil to wash down any residue in the funnel.
    4) Cap it, shake it a bit, put it in the microwave for 5-7 seconds at a time and shake between each heating. Try to keep it cool enough to hold but still warm (too hot might damage the chemicals though I don't know how exactly high for everything). Do this for 20 minutes (tedious) and done.

    How could the vehicle be evaporating? Are you leaving it open for hours/days at a time?

    I don't quite get it. Hopefully my explanation of what I'm doing makes sense though.

    Also while I'm posting - an update: Still zero shedding since I cut out the RU. It's surreal how little hair falls out when you're not actively balding. For reference, shedding stopped dead after 2 months of aggressive treatment (one month cypro/spironolactone, one month daro). I've never seen this little hair shedding/falling in my adult life. My left corner is now starting to look like a NW1. It's not a perfectly true NW1. There's no scalp visible there anymore except under the brightest lighting it looks a bit thin still. Continuing to thicken. The hairs are now about an inch or two long (my hair grows fast) so it's filling in nicely. I can do a hard part on that side and it looks great. Right corner's not so hot. It's still like a NW1.5-2 range, but that whole area was slick bald before so it's probably natural it's lagging a bit. Still improving too of course.

    Since I dropped the RU and stopped using the probably daro-contaminated face serum I had made, my eye dryness is entirely tolerable. I'll still have to reduce the daro dose long term a bit more. Maybe next batch I'll go down to 0.15%. I'm trying to manage the strongest I can as long as I can as these results are great. Only way I could be happier is if I didn't have dry eyes at all, although on the other hand, it's a good warning flag for me that I've still got systemic androgen blockade happening, so will need a lower dose long term for safety. Otherwise I'd have no way of knowing.

    I don't miss RU at all! I appreciate RU, because it slowed my loss and helped me for a few years. It also gave me hope and realized topical antiandrogens have promise, as 5-alpha reductase inhibitors don't work on me at all, so without topical AA I'd be lost. But for all the reasons previously discussed, I am glad to be rid of it. Feels good to simplify.

    If I can get down to the tiniest dose of topical daro, like 2-4 mg a day (currently 6 mg per day), that will probably be as safe as any strong regimen potentially can be and should guarantee me a full head as long as I can take it.

    Current projection: Should be a rock solid NW1 on the left in the next 1-2 months max. NW1 on the right probably within 3-4 months. Aiming for final forehead reduction surgery in 4 months.
     
    #386 IdealForehead, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
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  7. Jonnyyy

    Jonnyyy Senior Member My Regimen

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    My solution would start to boil and completely steam up after 12 seconds in the microwave I guess I just gotta put it in there for much less duration but more times.
     
  8. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    That's why I originally said 5-6 seconds at a time. I do max 7 seconds. Every microwave is different of course also.
     
  9. Jonnyyy

    Jonnyyy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Yea I noticed this morning after 1 use of 2ML I had like 5ml left when I started with 50ml lol. Hopefully all the Daro didn't stay and just the solution evaporated.
     
  10. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    Start again. Throw that out. You need to remix it from scratch properly all over again.
     
  11. Ollie

    Ollie Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Would it not be better to boil some water in a pan and just lower the vial of solution into the water so its partially submerged and let it heat up that way ?
     
  12. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    Yeah but you don't want it quite boiling. Around 80 degrees C max probably. Even 60 C would probably be fine.

    I'm too lazy to heat up water and do all that.
     
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  13. SpaceInvader

    SpaceInvader Established Member My Regimen

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    That's the way I do it. I actually leave the water boiling with the ethanol in the glass container and it gets very hot but it doesn't evaporate. Everything seems to stay intact just enough to pour the Daro in there, give it a few shakes and it dissolves well. I then add the PG and water. Sometimes I submerge all the contents into boiling water again if there are still a few chunks, but in the the end it's clear.

    I only microwave DMSO for 30 sec when preparing Enza.
     
  14. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    I have never worried too much about my crown as it's never been too bad. But it's something I had been wondering about the past 2-3 years. Was it thinning? Seemed like the part back there was looking deeper than it should be. Felt like the rain was hitting it more than it should be. But it looked okay. Everyone said it was fine.

    Today for the first time since starting aggressive treatment 2.5-3 months ago I took a look. Holy shit it looks different. The density is absolutely up through the roof. Now it looks the way it ought to.

    The funny thing about hairloss is its so insidious it's easy to cope and tell yourself its not that bad. But when you start growing hair back you definitely start to realize just how much you actually lost.

    Same thing happened at the hairline. My juvenile hairline is blatantly evident now with fuzz. It's not enough that I think I may actually get there. But it's enough to show me where it used to be. And its way farther forward especially at the temples than I would have believed.

    It's pretty surreal.
     
    #394 IdealForehead, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  15. jjoshh8

    jjoshh8 Member

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    Bump

    Any updates on this. No movement for a while
     
  16. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    Well there's only 3 or 4 of us using it and I'm the only one that's been using it for more than a month. Coming up on my two month anniversary next week.

    I'm super happy. I love the stuff. I don't even talk about hair on this forum anymore because I have nothing left to say. Probably there is a good chance I will get my juvenile hairline back based on the fact that the fuzz extends to the juvenile hairline, and it's been less than 2 months. People with mega recoveries often recover for 2 years or so to max results. In my case I can't wait 2 years as I have to get my forehead reduction done, so I'm just taking what I have and moving forward with the procedure. If anything else grows after my procedure, hopefully it will all still look good.

    Hair is funny. But it isn't complex or magical. Block (or reduce) the androgens. Add some stimulants. Get on it early. There's not much else to it than that. There's not much more to say. As far as I'm concerned hair loss is a completely curable condition with modern technology, and it's become one of the smaller and easier to fix problems in life. It's certainly not what haunts me anymore.
     
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  17. furrydome

    furrydome Established Member My Regimen

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    Question for any other lab rats trying Daro - did it dissolve 100% clear in your base solution? Can you see any particles at all when holding it up to light?

    I mixed a 0.1% Daro using K&B solution as the base (can't handle the PG in minoxidil liquid). It seems completely dissolved from a casual glance but up close and under light it looks like there are some very faint floaters, like it's almost dusty.

    Trying to determine if this vehicle is going to work or if the particles are too big to absorb.
     
  18. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    I never found K&B to be a very effective solvent in general. I hated using it even for RU. Mine dissolves completely in Kirkland minoxidil at least to my eyes.

    If you're talking about tiny almost imperceptible drops of transparent residue on the surface, that might be solvent impurities. If it's dusty to a significant extent, try dissolving some in some Kirkland minoxidil or 50 PG / 30 Eth / 20 water to compare.
     
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  19. SteveTabernack

    SteveTabernack Experienced Member My Regimen

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    So how come I had harsh sexual sides on even minor RU doses.. is my body just a total bitch when exposed to all things antiandrogen?

    But, if there is a chance to avoid sexual side effects with Daro due to it not crossing blood brain barrier.. my desperation has probably reached heights that make me willing to risk giving it a go.

    Could probably cope with most sides besides anything dick related for legit hair treatment anyway.

    Gonna have to hit up this Luo guy to see if he can get it into a safetyfirstcuck country like Denmark.

    Were any of you quoted on a price for just 1g?
     
  20. IdealForehead

    IdealForehead Senior Member My Regimen

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    The funny thing about daro is it's the only antiandrogen that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. So it's unique.

    It definitely in my experience doesn't reduce mental sexual desire. I still have loads of that. Too much. I hate it.

    But on the other hand it still can theoretically bind to androgen receptors peripherally in the body, for example, in the dick which can cause things like possibly penile atrophy or theoretically reduced penile responsiveness to sexual stimulation.

    I don't know. No one does. I've said before I'm a terrible candidate for monitoring for sexual side effects since my sexual function goes up and down with my mood. I also quit p*rn mostly in the past few months so that will probably play a role too.

    All I can say is use at your own risk.

    My hair is starting to look like a wig though. So that's fun. I'm happy enough with the hairline now I'm gonna definitely start re-expanding the expander as soon as new year hits. Time to get this thing done.
     

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