Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Georgie]

I’m hoping that since I have hair still all over my head but just very thin hair, I can get a decent head of hair back with daro. Have faith Georgie, have faith. Don’t neck yourself yet. Daro will be the Jesus of antiandogens. It will save us all *rocking back and forth ina corner*

 

[SteveTabernack]

Good to have you back posting @IdealForehead

I'm 10 days into daro. Praying for liberation.

 

[peewee]

Does anyone know, do these drugs stack?
I mean I'm on ru and it's not working, if a add a super small amount of daro, will it push me to where it will work? Or will I need a certain amount of daro no matter what dose ru I'm on?

 

[IdealForehead]

Does anyone know, do these drugs stack?
I mean I'm on ru and it's not working, if a add a super small amount of daro, will it push me to where it will work? Or will I need a certain amount of daro no matter what dose ru I'm on?

hahaha. Sorry, that's funny to me, primarily because I did that before. I was on RU for the first month of daro (since I was on RU from long before daro). I kept the RU while transitioning to daro for security's sake in case the daro turned out to be bunk or not work. They're both just androgen receptor antagonists, so there's no reason they can't play nice together.

It's just funny because daro is so much ridiculously stronger than RU, the idea of putting them together really in any practical sense makes no sense. Just a few mg of daro a day will destroy even 5% or 7.5% RU in potency.

So yeah, sure you could add a mg or two of daro a day to your current RU regimen. But what you'll find over time is daro is cleaner and more effective, and likely you'll eventually do what I did and drop the RU. I felt much better when I did and went full daro. But I was at that point using around 300 mg a day of RU (7.5% 2 mL twice daily), so it's probably no surprise I was getting some subtle side effects from that level of RU.

I can absolutely say 5 mg daro once daily is way, way, way stronger than 150 mg of RU twice daily. If you want to be conservative, you could add 1-2 mg daro a day to your current mixture. Probably that will still work very well. eg. Furrydome is only using 1 mg of daro a day to his hairline.

Good to have you back posting @IdealForehead

I'm 10 days into daro. Praying for liberation.

Good luck. And thanks - I can't help it. This inflating balloon in my scalp is making me so neurotic about my hair and appearance, I'm just posting compulsively at this point. For better or worse you guys are stuck with me til at least April.

 

[peewee]

Not stuck at all. Glad your here ideal.
I'll be starting daro soon and still going over my dose. I'm still on 2.5 dutasteride as well as ru, would love to drop them both but I'm scared. We'll see.

 

[inmyhead]

How many guys trialing daro we have right now? Only Ideal and furrydome are claiming results? no pics?

 

[SpaceInvader]

How many guys trialing daro we have right now? Only Ideal and furrydome are claiming results? no pics?

I am too, Sanchez, and I think that's it since Johnny stopped it but no update on whether he will continue or not

I restarted it and now taking it in 20 mL Kirkland, 1G Niancinamide, and 50 mg Daro. 3 mL, 15 mg at a time. I've been on Polaris NR-10 (16% Minoxidil, 0.1 % Finasteride) at the temples only, BiEstro, Estriol and Estrogel for a month now. I will be adding Tretinoin and needling with the Derminator every three days as well.

Right now I'm taking Daro right after a shower after towel drying, since that increases absorption of topicals. This is my new way of taking it. I still experience an itch, so that first sign the drug is working that everyone reports, I don't get.

Soon after, if I don't get anything, I will take it in pure DMSO and reintroduce Enza and mix them both together.

 

[inmyhead]

I am too, Sanchez, and I think that's it since Johnny stopped it but no update on whether he will continue or not

I restarted it and now taking it in 20 mL Kirkland, 1G Niancinamide, and 50 mg Daro. 3 mL, 15 mg at a time. I've been on Polaris NR-10 (16% Minoxidil, 0.1 % Finasteride) at the temples only, BiEstro, Estriol and Estrogel for a month now. I will be adding Tretinoin and needling with the Derminator every three days as well.

Right now I'm taking Daro right after a shower after towel drying, since that increases absorption of topicals. This is my new way of taking it. I still experience an itch, so that first sign the drug is working that everyone reports, I don't get.

Soon after, if I don't get anything, I will take it in pure DMSO and reintroduce Enza and mix them both together.

Thanks for reporting.

Have in mind that itch might be due to washing head too often. Some time ago I also thought that i have that male pattern baldness itch, but turns out i only have it if I wash my hair every day. For example, if I skip washing my hair for 2-3 days it gets oily, but I don't have any itch. So you can not always judge by itch if treatment is working or not.

You use quite a lot of minoxidil - 3 ml. Why you you need that much? I'm diffuser but I only need 1 - 1.5ml to cover my full scalp.

 

[jonnywalker93]

I am too, Sanchez, and I think that's it since Johnny stopped it but no update on whether he will continue or not

I restarted it and now taking it in 20 mL Kirkland, 1G Niancinamide, and 50 mg Daro. 3 mL, 15 mg at a time. I've been on Polaris NR-10 (16% Minoxidil, 0.1 % Finasteride) at the temples only, BiEstro, Estriol and Estrogel for a month now. I will be adding Tretinoin and needling with the Derminator every three days as well.

Right now I'm taking Daro right after a shower after towel drying, since that increases absorption of topicals. This is my new way of taking it. I still experience an itch, so that first sign the drug is working that everyone reports, I don't get.

Soon after, if I don't get anything, I will take it in pure DMSO and reintroduce Enza and mix them both together.

Sorry for going off topic here, but does the estrogel go systematic and does it do anything?

 

[DavidsDome]

As far as I know, estrogel is made to deliver systemically.
Alpicort F is maybe an alternative which doesn't go systemic, if you're looking for one?

 

[SteveTabernack]

@IdealForehead how sure are you that heating the solution dosen't damage the daro? I'm having to put my minoxidil/daro mix in to hot water to get it to dissolve

 

[peewee]

@IdealForehead how sure are you that heating the solution dosen't damage the daro? I'm having to put my minoxidil/daro mix in to hot water to get it to dissolve

I don't think you'll ever know for sure. Do u heat up the whole mix? I would just drop a couple ml with daro and heat that up, then add the rest at room temp.

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead how sure are you that heating the solution dosen't damage the daro? I'm having to put my minoxidil/daro mix in to hot water to get it to dissolve

Enzalutamide heat stability was pretty high from the data I found. I posted this previously, but you can review heat stability here:

http://www.alliedacademies.org/arti...and-uvvisible-spectroscopic-method-in-bul.pdf

Dry heat up to 80 degrees Celcius for 4 hours in the oven did not cause degradation. It degraded when heated with base for 10 minutes to 83%, and when heated with acid for 4 hours to 91%.

No data on heating in plain water. But probably fine for a few minutes.

No data on darolutamide yet available.

It's working so I figure I can't be damaging it that bad. I keep it within a temperature range where I can handle the bottle and I presume it can't be that hot if it is.

 

[Georgie]

Enzalutamide heat stability was pretty high from the data I found. I posted this previously, but you can review heat stability here:

http://www.alliedacademies.org/arti...and-uvvisible-spectroscopic-method-in-bul.pdf

Dry heat up to 80 degrees Celcius for 4 hours in the oven did not cause degradation. It degraded when heated with base for 10 minutes to 83%, and when heated with acid for 4 hours to 91%.

No data on heating in plain water. But probably fine for a few minutes.

No data on darolutamide yet available.

It's working so I figure I can't be damaging it that bad. I keep it within a temperature range where I can handle the bottle and I presume it can't be that hot if it is.

Didn’t know I had to heat it to dissolve. How do you go about it?

 

[IdealForehead]

Didn’t know I had to heat it to dissolve. How do you go about it?

Dump all the ingredients into the amber bottle as previously described. Shake it to dissolve it a bit. The little daro chunks won't dissolve super-easily though. Close it, put it in the microwave and run it for 4-7 seconds at a time to heat it up to warm but not burning hot temperature (should still be able to hold the bottle). Shake it for five minutes. Once it's cooled down, reheat again for a few seconds and shake again. Repeat a few times and it should 90% dissolve. At that point it's usable. The last little bit will sit at the bottom and dissolve by the next morning just sitting on the counter.

Mild nuissance but worth it for hair.

Also someone said earlier in the thread that they were putting their bottle of daro in boiling water to dissolve it. I wouldn't recommend it. We only know enza is stable up to 80 degrees. We don't know how stable daro is. Boiling water is 100 degrees C and this may be too much. Like I said, I try to keep it comfortable to the touch, which should definitely be less than 80 degrees C. If it's too hot to touch, back off a bit on the heating. No need to blast it so hard.

Lastly, I never bought one, but I mentioned earlier in the thread there are also mini paint shakers for hobbyists that would work well to dissolve this sort of thing. Not sure if that would avoid the need for heating.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Robart-...296028&hash=item283eb38cce:g:Ux4AAOSwUM5aSfvZ

I'm happy with the current method and can't be bothered at present.

 

[Georgie]

Dump all the ingredients into the amber bottle as previously described. Shake it to dissolve it a bit. The little daro chunks won't dissolve super-easily though. Close it, put it in the microwave and run it for 4-7 seconds at a time to heat it up to warm but not burning hot temperature (should still be able to hold the bottle). Shake it for five minutes. Once it's cooled down, reheat again for a few seconds and shake again. Repeat a few times and it should 90% dissolve. At that point it's usable. The last little bit will sit at the bottom and dissolve by the next morning just sitting on the counter.

Mild nuissance but worth it for hair.

Also someone said earlier in the thread that they were putting their bottle of daro in boiling water to dissolve it. I wouldn't recommend it. We only know enza is stable up to 80 degrees. We don't know how stable daro is. Boiling water is 100 degrees C and this may be too much. Like I said, I try to keep it comfortable to the touch, which should definitely be less than 80 degrees C. If it's too hot to touch, back off a bit on the heating. No need to blast it so hard.

Lastly, I never bought one, but I mentioned earlier in the thread there are also mini paint shakers for hobbyists that would work well to dissolve this sort of thing. Not sure if that would avoid the need for heating.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Robart-...296028&hash=item283eb38cce:g:Ux4AAOSwUM5aSfvZ

I'm happy with the current method and can't be bothered at present.

Legend. Will use that method. Worth it for the hair indeed!

 

[Sanchez1234]

Its been 1.5 month since starting and the last 2 weeks 0.35% 1.5ml. Thats about 5mg at a time, a really strong dose right?!

Still nothing, my shedding had increased after 2 week like it doubled me losing hair. Doesnt feel like the sheds you read online.
I was on ru 200mg without any results. Maybe nothing works for me.

The photo is from this morning. Was a lot less.
Will continue for at least 6 months, no sides to report.

 

[Georgie]

Its been 1.5 month since starting and the last 2 weeks 0.35% 1.5ml. Thats about 5mg at a time, a really strong dose right?!

Still nothing, my shedding had increased after 2 week like it doubled me losing hair. Doesnt feel like the sheds you read online.
I was on ru 200mg without any results. Maybe nothing works for me.

The photo is from this morning. Was a lot less.
Will continue for at least 6 months, no sides to report.

Is that honestly a “shed” for you?!!! My god. I would be doing back flips if I lost that much hair. Mine literally covers both my hands.

 

[IdealForehead]

Its been 1.5 month since starting and the last 2 weeks 0.35% 1.5ml. Thats about 5mg at a time, a really strong dose right?!

Still nothing, my shedding had increased after 2 week like it doubled me losing hair. Doesnt feel like the sheds you read online.
I was on ru 200mg without any results. Maybe nothing works for me.

The photo is from this morning. Was a lot less.
Will continue for at least 6 months, no sides to report.

Sounds like typical med-related telogen efluvium. Takes up to 3 months to resolve. There's no way an androgen receptor antagonist can worsen your hair loss long term if it is androgenic alopecia.

Also what Georgie said. That's a few hairs. Big deal. I was losing 60+ hairs into the sink just during topical application during my Telogen Effluvium phase, plus loads more in the shower and on my floors. Both my shower and bathroom sink clogged up and I went through two bottles of Draino to unclog them.

Now, like I said, virtually nothing falls out at all. This is now the least I've ever shed hair in my adult life. By far.

 

[Georgie]

Sounds like typical med-related telogen efluvium. Takes up to 3 months to resolve. There's no way an androgen receptor antagonist can worsen your hair loss long term if it is androgenic alopecia.

Also what Georgie said. That's a few hairs. Big deal. I was losing 60+ hairs into the sink just during topical application during my Telogen Effluvium phase, plus loads more in the shower and on my floors. Both my shower and bathroom sink clogged up and I went through two bottles of Draino to unclog them.

Now, like I said, virtually nothing falls out at all. This is now the least I've ever shed hair in my adult life. By far.

Definitely. I wouldn’t be worried about that amount of “shedding”. Seems like a Normal amount. Shedding is where the loss is so intense that you can actually see day-to-day changes in your hair. I’ll post a picture of the ball I pulled out of my head after taking my hair out and running my fingers through it THREE times today. Don’t sweat a few little hairs.