Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

IdealForehead

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What happened to Idealforehead?
He retreated, after you started to doubt his wig like hair.

Lol. I've been:

- Travelling on vacation over holidays
- Getting back into my "fun" hobbies a lot which I had completely neglected the past few months
- Planning revision jaw surgery
- Working on my scalp expansion for my forehead reduction in a few months (1/3 of the way there)
- Working more at my job
- Enjoying absolutely zero shedding and no longer worrying about hair loss.

I don't intend to post here forever as I've said many times.

As an update, I'm using 2 mL at night and 0.5 mL to the hairline each day currently of:

20 mL Kirkland minoxidil
0.25% daro (50 mg)
0.5% caffeine (100 mg)
5% niacin (1 g)
2.5% panthenol (0.5 g)
1% desloratadine (0.2 g)

It's become very hard to judge my hairline day to day as I am continually now expanding my scalp expander which is distorting my hairline. My surgeon told me from day one that as I inflated the expander it would make the corners look worse as it would stretch them, but to ignore this as it will not be an issue at the final surgery.

What I can say:

- My hair has never shed this little in my entire life. There is almost nothing falling out at all. 2 hairs are on my pillow at the present. I notice maybe 2-5 hairs in the sink after vigorously applying my topicals (previously was 60 during my Telogen Effluvium, and usually around 30 or so before aggressive treatments). Maybe 2-5 hairs on my hands when showering running my hands through my hair.

- The left corner looks fantastic. Under good lighting it looks like a thin but "present" NW1. My right corner was the shittier one and while it's getting some good coverage, it's still very thin. I'm not sure if this is going to fill in adequately by my surgery. If not I will have my surgeon "cut it out" as we will have flexibility with the expansion. The surgery will be at 5 months of daro which is nowhere near "full results" which based on finasteride/dutasteride studies should be by 12-15 months or so.

- Still getting a bit of eye dryness but I'm still using a high dose of around 6 mg per day. It is completely tolerable so I'm not interested in reducing my dose ... yet.

- Not sure if desloratadine is helping or hurting. As it is a broad anti-inflammatory, it blocks release of PGE2 and other inflammatory mediators. PGE2 is stimulated by minoxidil. I doubt I even need desloratadine as if daro is blocking my androgen receptors, there should be no downstream negative inflammatory cascade for which desloratadine would be required. Furthermore, if desloratadine is blocking some of the positive inflammatory mediators stimulated by minoxidil, it could be undoing some of the minoxidil benefits, and therefore actually slowing down recovery. I may cut it out in my next batch.

Lastly, I will just say I love this site and I will be eternally grateful to it and this thread for stopping my hair loss and turning my life around. At my worse after I got the expander put in and realized I was still losing on RU, I was having panic and thoughts like, "This is going to be what finally does me in..." and in darker terms. I am not someone who could live with being bald. I can't afford it.

Now I am looking forward to my final procedure brightly and with optimism thinking it will be the start of a great new chapter in my life. I know as long as I can keep using daro, I will have my hair for life and that gives me so much peace.

But it is an incredible time sink. I logged back in today and after replying to PMs (with still one or two more to reply to) and posting a few replies here, I've already been on this site for one hour. That's one hour I could have spent doing a hundred other things.

At a certain point, I have to come to realize that Internet forums, just like Facebook or other sites like even Tinder, are not healthy for us mentally. If you are getting something useful out of the experience, then they are potentially healthy. But if you are just spending time online every day for hours to complain, waste time, or brag to try to impress others who are equally miserable about life, what's the point? Isn't it better to spend that time trying to actively do something with your life?

I'm at that point now. I want to get back to doing something useful with my life. Something ELSE useful. Because as long as this expansion and surgery goes fine (and I can cut the daro dose over time or get some testosterone/DHT eye drops to resolve the eye dryness), I don't have to worry about hair anymore. And that's a huge monkey off my back.

But I've got a lot of other ones to deal with next. That's the fun of life isn't it? If it isn't one thing it's another.
 

Jonnyyy

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If anybody wants to buy some Darolutamide let me know, about 9grams honestly I really believe you shouldn't get sides on it, I got a bit stronger sides on Daro than Zix but I've seen like 1/100 people get sides on Zix, I guess my body NEEDS all the androgens it can get.
 

Ollie

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wait @Jonnyyy why have you stopped using it ? I would probably buy but as an amateur (drug free) bodybuilder im in the state of mind that i dont want excessively powerful anti-androgens floating around my body...
 

Jonnyyy

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wait @Jonnyyy why have you stopped using it ? I would probably buy but as an amateur (drug free) bodybuilder im in the state of mind that i dont want excessively powerful anti-androgens floating around my body...
Same sides I got on a Finasteride except a good 80-90% less. Still intolerable for me, even Zix gave me brain fog so I'm just a pussy when it comes to anti androgens.
 

inmyhead

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If anybody wants to buy some Darolutamide let me know, about 9grams honestly I really believe you shouldn't get sides on it, I got a bit stronger sides on Daro than Zix but I've seen like 1/100 people get sides on Zix, I guess my body NEEDS all the androgens it can get.

Are you telling me you paid 5k almost without even knowing if you can tolerate it?
 

ALightInTheDark

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anything new?

Nope.
Juste look at the thread :
- IdealForhead : Complete success.
- Sanchez : In progression. Nothing incredible.
- Johnny : Fail and cannot support sides
- wthvr : Tries new protocol.

If you want to know if this works, tries it.
On paper it should. Reality is sometimes different. I will try it once it'll be cheaper.
 

IdealForehead

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Nope.
Juste look at the thread :
- IdealForhead : Complete success.
- Sanchez : In progression. Nothing incredible.
- Johnny : Fail and cannot support sides
- wthvr : Tries new protocol.

It's worth also mentioning that I've been using it the longest of anyone and I've still only been using it 2.5 months. Feels like longer but that's all its been! Everyone else has used it 1.5 months or less I think.

We should all know well enough that hair loss treatments typically take 6 months for significant effects and a year for full results.

Even castration probably wouldn't stop your hair loss 100% overnight or give immediate dramatic regrowth.

Rare good responders to meds get regrowth by 2-3 months but most people generally never do regardless of the treatment.
 

Sanchez1234

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It's worth also mentioning that I've been using it the longest of anyone and I've still only been using it 2.5 months. Feels like longer but that's all its been! Everyone else has used it 1.5 months or less I think.

We should all know well enough that hair loss treatments typically take 6 months for significant effects and a year for full results.

Even castration probably wouldn't stop your hair loss 100% overnight or give immediate dramatic regrowth.

Rare good responders to meds get regrowth by 2-3 months but most people generally never do regardless of the treatment.
I am using it around 1.5 month. Still shedding like crazy, the most when i apply it (lots of hair on my finger).

So far no sign of maintenance..lost ground!

@IdealForehead is kind of a bad example for using only daro. He is still progressing but he was also progressing on the other strong anti-androgens. But it does help for him so i am keeping this up for at least 1 year.
 

Jonnyyy

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I am using it around 1.5 month. Still shedding like crazy, the most when i apply it (lots of hair on my finger).

So far no sign of maintenance..lost ground!

@IdealForehead is kind of a bad example for using only daro. He is still progressing but he was also progressing on the other strong anti-androgens. But it does help for him so i am keeping this up for at least 1 year.
Have you tried also getting on seti? Seti +Daro sounds ridiculously expensive but worst case scenario its maintenance. I saw a post you said you got heart problems off of it, maybe try a different batch? Too many people got sides off Kane seti not sure if you got it from him or not.
 

IdealForehead

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I am using it around 1.5 month. Still shedding like crazy, the most when i apply it (lots of hair on my finger).

So far no sign of maintenance..lost ground!

@IdealForehead is kind of a bad example for using only daro. He is still progressing but he was also progressing on the other strong anti-androgens. But it does help for him so i am keeping this up for at least 1 year.

What do you mean I'm still progressing? I'm regrowing hair daily and daro is the only antiandrogen I've been using since early November.
 

IdealForehead

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Progressing = regrowing.

U where regrowing before daro right? But daro is better without sides for you?

Can you share your shedding timeline?

From my perspective when people say "progressing" they usually mean "the hair loss is progressing" ie. still losing hair. But that's just maybe me. Sorry. Not important. Just semantics...

Yeah, I started regrowing from probably about a month before daro. Daro is just 1000x cleaner than the other toxic drugs I have been on. Here's a rough timeline of my entire hair loss and more recent developments for what it's worth (as best I can provide from memory):

- 2006 - noticed recession at right corner a bit ie. beginning of hair loss
- 2010 - started playing with minoxidil, got some finasteride but was too scared to take it regularly
- 2013-2014 - finasteride daily x1 year, no benefit
- 2014-2015 - dutasteride daily x1 year, no benefit (found out they don't work on me, my DHT levels were normal on it)
- 2015-2016 - RU 5% + minoxidil 5% - maintenance for a year, maybe a bit of regrowth at the best.
- 2016-2017 - RU 3.75% without minoxidil - lost hair
- Sept ~15, 2017 - Realized I was losing hair, freaked out, bumped RU to 7.5% and added back minoxidil 5%
- October 8, 2017 - Added spironolactone 200 mg per day and minoxidil orally 5-10 mg per day.
- October 15, 2017 - Couldn't handle spironolactone, switched to cyproterone 100 mg per day.
- October 28, 2017 - Started daro with continued RU and cypro
- Nov ~6 or so - Stopped cypro.
- Late November (I think) - Stopped RU, since then just on daro and the other chemicals in my topical. Still taking 5 mg minoxidil orally on some days but it gives me headaches so only every so often.

My shedding kicked up a notch basically as soon as a I added minoxidil back in September, so most of it was likely minoxidil-related efluvium. But it went into mega high gear when I went on spironolactone and oral minoxidil. The only other time I have ever shed so much was when I was briefly injecting test-e for a few months in ~2016.

But right from the start of the minoxidil I also saw baby vellus hairs growing back as well, so I knew this shed was a good sign. I think the shed completely stopped by late November (Just over 2 months total duration).

Of all the drugs I've been on daro is the cleanest and most effective. spironolactone and cypro probably would have saved my hair too. Maybe even just the increased RU might have worked too. But no way could I handle spironolactone or cypro long term. I even surprisingly just "felt better" when I stopped the RU which I didn't expect, but RU does cross the blood brain barrier, and I was using high doses, so maybe that makes sense.

Daro I can probably do long term easily. All I have to complain about is a bit of dry skin and very mildly dry eyes. I can probably reduce my dose long term to resolve this (or get testosterone eye drops made if needed). The dryness is completely stable at this stage and not worsening that I can tell. Nothing else bothers me.

I think excluding any discussion we've had about risks (and how dose-related they might be) related to daro usage, it is biologically impossible for male pattern baldness to proceed under daro treatment with an adequate dose. Everyone might need a different dose. But if the hair loss is caused by androgens binding to hair follicle receptors, and darolutamide blocks that process ~100% in sufficient (and tiny) quantities, then how can hair loss proceed?

I can't see any way it can. Everyone might need a different dose (theoretically - I'm still not suggesting anyone actually does this), but at the right dose for the person, by 3-6 months on it shedding should absolutely stop, or (1) the dose/frequency is still too low, or (2) it's not androgenic alopecia.
 

furrydome

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Worth mentioning again that I replaced high-dose RU with Daro and it's working at least as well, if not slightly better, with fewer side effects. Getting very slow regrowth, but can't really complain.
 

IdealForehead

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Worth mentioning again that I replaced high-dose RU with Daro and it's working at least as well, if not slightly better, with fewer side effects. Getting very slow regrowth, but can't really complain.

What volume and concentration of daro are you applying in what base?

My regrowth is also pretty slow but steady at this point. I think in the earliest few weeks or month or two of aggressive treatment, the most impressive and rapid thing I noticed was that areas of deep thinning (which had only been thinning for a few months probably) thickened back up almost instantaneously. This was likely because as soon as I got minoxidil and good anti-androgens those hairs were very ready and able to start new strong growth cycles again, and within that 1-2 months they were already 1/2-1 inch long again.

Whereas, slick bald areas (corners) are taking a very tedious process of growing vellus hairs, then more vellus hairs, then slightly longer vellus hairs, then 1-2 cm thin hairs, etc. until eventual terminalization. Regrowing hair that has been gone for years is hard for almost anyone with any regimen. This has more to do with scalp scarring and follicle damage over the years than any particular regimen. The hair follicles have just been shredded and will take a long time to repair (if they can at all).

Like you though, who can complain about regrowth, at any rate? Regrowth is regrowth. And to get any in less than 6 months of treatment is to already beat finasteride's typical outcomes.
 

furrydome

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What volume and concentration of daro are you applying in what base

0.1% daro in K&B solution, slightly less than 1ml/day

Whereas, slick bald areas (corners) are taking a very tedious process of growing vellus hairs, then more vellus hairs, then slightly longer vellus hairs, then 1-2 cm thin hairs, etc. until eventual terminalization.

That's a good description of what's happening here too.

Regrowing hair that has been gone for years is hard for almost anyone with any regimen. This has more to do with scalp scarring and follicle damage over the years than any particular regimen. The hair follicles have just been shredded and will take a long time to repair (if they can at all).

Yep, that's what the needling is for. It sounds like wounding-based treatments might be the answer - obviously Follica but maybe that PDO thread stuff too. Someone's going to crack the mystery and probably soon.

Then RCH-01 is supposed to be an immunity treatment. Regrow as much as you can, get the injections, then throw all these drugs in the trash. Enjoy your stable hairline. In theory, anyway...
 
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IdealForehead

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0.1% daro in K&B solution, slightly less than 1ml/day
Amazing. Is that just to you hairline or do you manage to make the 1 mL spread over the whole top of your head?

That's only 1 mg per day. I've wondered if that low a dose would work but I'm too afraid of failure to test it yet. Currently still on 6 mg a day here.
 
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