Balding with zero androgens

[Mr. Slap Head]

To be fair, castrated animals tend to live longer. Granted chemical castration from hrt likely doesn't provide that same longevity

Again, why? Yes there is a correlation, but what about the downstream effects of such treatments? People wanna act like altering hormones will not alter your behavior and other factors; it's multi-factorial. It's not like you're just taking a magical potion that makes you a superior individual.... or is it?

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Oh, and there is something to be said about quality vs quantity. We can say the same thing about a lot of diets. There's also survival of the fittest and reproduction as markers, which are related but still distinct from chronological lifespan. Again, this guy just clearly has that superiority complex. It's like okay bud, it's causation not correlation lol happy now.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I'm not really sure the risk behavioral difference castration would cause animals. Though a dog won't try to hump everything in sight after, so maybe that helps?

But in terms of human longevity between sexes, I agree it's likely multifactorial. Like men are more likely to engage in riskier behaviors or jobs and tend to smoke more. But there's also some hormonal component at play. Particularly estrogen stores fat more subcutaneous vs visceral and also has a protective component against cholesterol and increases disease immunity. Conversely, due to the last point, it also contributes to autoimmune conditions which is why women have them at a much higher rate.

So anyway, yes. It's likely complex and to what degree hormones vs behavior vs environment play a role, no one really knows.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I'm in the same boat. I've tried finasteride for about a year but it didn't seem to work. I've also tried RU (125 mgs./day in about 2.5 mL vehicle) without any success. After that I used 25 mgs./day of CPA and even that didn't stop the scalp itch and shedding (although I've only tried CPA for a month). I started wondering if I should take a non-hormonal approach and bought a low level laser therapy helmet. It actually looked like it was making a difference but after about 3 months it seemed to lose it's effect. Started to shed pretty badly again and at this point I don't think anything will help and that hairloss is my destiny. FML

It's possible you can have a seperate or additional cause of hairloss, particularly if there's inflammation like itching

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

I'm not really sure the risk behavioral difference castration would cause animals. Though a dog won't try to hump everything in sight after, so maybe that helps?

But in terms of human longevity between sexes, I agree it's likely multifactorial. Like men are more likely to engage in riskier behaviors or jobs and tend to smoke more. But there's also some hormonal component at play. Particularly estrogen stores fat more subcutaneous vs visceral and also has a protective component against cholesterol and increases disease immunity. Conversely, due to the last point, it also contributes to autoimmune conditions which is why women have them at a much higher rate.

So anyway, yes. It's likely complex and to what degree hormones vs behavior vs environment play a role, no one really knows.

Well the neutered males would likely put themselves in less dangerous situations, and less motivation to do so since they can’t mate, so that would be huge lol. Keep in mind that males are generally disposable and females vulnerable because the primary concern is the survival of the offspring - not the individual. No offspring, no need to expend yourself. So there’s no doubt there are Darwinian and altruistic survival mechanisms at play. Not only that but obviously humans are much more complex than just pack animals so there is that.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

You either destroyed your E by destroying your T with CPA, got some crazy upregulation, or have adrenal androgens which overpowered the drugs. You really should have blood work and been testing this periodically

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Any idea what could be the cause? My doctor said I didn't have chronic inflammation based on bloodwork results, which was a surprise to me. He said there was definitely scalp irritation/redness when he took a closer look. Unfortunately nothing I've tried worked, which includes 2% keto, head & shoulders, tgel shampoo. I've also tried various anti inflammatory supplements like curcumin.

Blood work cant identify scalp issues. You'd need a biopsy from a dermatologist.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

A lot of these idiots get on half-measure HRT regimen and end up both bald and infertile. Sad

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Dude why didn’t you try dutasteride and oral minoxidil. A couple of people literally have gotten to NW0 on a regimen like that. It’s worth a shot. If that doesn’t work you probably need full HRT

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

I did try dutasteride and quit because it didn't seem to be working, although I took it for a way shorter time than I did with finasteride. In regards to minoxidil I've been fearing the aging side effects and initial shed. I still might give oral minoxidil a try, but would like to try other growth stimulant options first. LLLT seemed initially promising but also seemed to be losing it's effect. I'm also planning to try microneedling.

You will be very bald soon with that plan. Might as well look into hair systems

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Like bro if 25mg CPA didn’t work for you then you realize your only chance is something stronger, meaning full HRT

 

[CTD]

You will be very bald soon with that plan. Might as well look into hair systems

That is definitely an option at this point.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Yep that's what I was afraid of. Seems like I'd need to sacrifice masculinity and feminize in order to get hair gains, there's no other way around it. But I hated the feeling of being on CPA. In only a month I lost weight and strength. Also had zero libido and a little bit of insomnia. Since I also have bad scalp itch/irritation I was hoping to find something that could attack the inflammation without messing with hormones. Obviously that wouldn't be a cure but if I could just find a way to slow down the rate of loss while adding back a little bit of density I'd be able to live with that.

Well if you have an existing scalp issue, solving that might be all you need. If it's in conjuction with androgenic alopecia, then finasteride might work after the inflammation is solved. No amount of hrt will solve issues like lichen planopilaris or folliculitis decalvans or the literally 100 other conditions that cause inflammatory hair loss. Not necessarily saying you for sure have one of those, but the fact you haven't responded to anything and have continued scalp redness/itching def means something else can be to blame. You can also ask a derm for a topical steroid like clobetasol to try and see if that quells the inflammation.

 

[Bungiejumper33g]

I'm not really sure the risk behavioral difference castration would cause animals. Though a dog won't try to hump everything in sight after, so maybe that helps?

But in terms of human longevity between sexes, I agree it's likely multifactorial. Like men are more likely to engage in riskier behaviors or jobs and tend to smoke more. But there's also some hormonal component at play. Particularly estrogen stores fat more subcutaneous vs visceral and also has a protective component against cholesterol and increases disease immunity. Conversely, due to the last point, it also contributes to autoimmune conditions which is why women have them at a much higher rate.

So anyway, yes. It's likely complex and to what degree hormones vs behavior vs environment play a role, no one really knows.

Could my continued hair loss be auto immune or is it like someone said scalp dht?
for months I was on estrogen injections and I had and still have zero androgens.
My blood androgen levels are rock bottom even by female standards.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

And like I’ve said before CPA is inferior to a lot of other things. Bica is better because it increases E 2-3 fold and it leaves your T and HPA axis in tact. But will still cause gyno. Of course, oral minoxidil will improve hair for nearly every single person so that’s important to note. But like KCMB said, see a derm to check if it’s some kind of fungal or inflammatory issue first.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Could my continued hair loss be auto immune or is it like someone said scalp dht?
for months I was on estrogen injections and I had and still have zero androgens.
My blood androgen levels are rock bottom even by female standards.

Zero androgens is a problem because that means zero estrogen, so long as you are not taking it exogenously. So you have to take E or increase T.

 

[Bungiejumper33g]

Zero androgens is a problem because that means zero estrogen, so long as you are not taking it exogenously. So you have to take E or increase T.

I WAS TAKING ESTROGEN
I’ve said that several times already
-as a matter of deft this seemed to have coincided with me going on estrogen injections and I’m also on bica it’s my primary aa

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

I WAS TAKING ESTROGEN
I’ve said that several times already
-as a matter of deft this seemed to have coincided with me going on estrogen injections and I’m also on bica it’s my primary aa

For how long? All the more reason that your HPA axis shut down and you are now a eunuch that cannot even produce estrogen

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

If you have no androgens, why be on an antiandrogen??? Not enough ligands to even bind to the receptor. You need to stimulate growth

 

[Bungiejumper33g]

If you have no androgens, why be on an antiandrogen??? Not enough ligands to even bind to the receptor. You need to stimulate growth

My androgens are so low because of the anti androgens and the estrogen. I was on injections for 14 weeks, before that patches for 10 weeks.