All we need to know about RU58841

[waynakyo]

El dutasteride:
Man your pics look great. You don t seem to have any baldness except in the front. I am wondering whether these are the drugs or whether you are genetically predisposed to have only thinning in the front. My boss is like that.
Sorry for the question but how do you know that these are the drugs that are working ? did you ever quit Propecia and RU and felt things worsened ?
I actually thought you v been off propecia bc of side effects. Maybe I am wrong.

I haven t bought RU yet. I was hesitating. I am still on Fluridil and minoxidil. minoxidil works for me quite a bit. Fluridil is decreasing the shedding periods but not stopping them I FEEL, still.

I would like to know who else than El dutasteride is on RU ? Please just drop a note and tell us so. It seems very few are... and that s too bad.

 

[el_duterino]

ok guys..a few answers

1) RU is easily ordered from the US..just e-mail faith eagle and walk into a bank to do a wire transfer. Same applies for any country.
How hard can that be ?

2)No one knows exactly about application time, but to make things simple :

leave RU on the scalp for one hour..used on dry or wet scalp if fine.

Fluridil needs a totally dry scalp and needs to be left for 3 hours before you apply anyhting else or wash hair.

3)These drugs are for hair maintenance and won't grow new strand of hair on bald areas...unless the loss is very recent.

These drugs work best when you still have plently of healthy hair and want to keep those for many years or a lifetime.
Drugs will thicken some existing hair and reduce shedding.

Therefore it is crucial to start as soon as you notice a decrease in hair quality..as it wont cover bald spots.

4)these drugs work very well when you have diffuse thinning all over the top..each hair is still there but the diameter is very thin..this is what I had. My scalp was visible and hairline was recessing slowly but I did not have major bald spots.

5)I am on finasteride now, becuase I wanted to reduce the amount of RU. Going all topical is possible for maintenance (RU+Fluridil only) but you need a lot of RU for that and apply it to a large area. Adding finasteride gives better results overall.
I?never had sides on finasteride. finasteride is very safe and well tested in men, RU can still have possible health risks therefore we need to use small amounts.

 

[Tyler_Durden]

Hey dutasteride how come you don't use RU with minoxidil like they did in the study, isn't that when they got the best result? I think they said they got marked hair growth in the study when the used the combination of the two.

Are you reducing the % of the solution you are using, or just applying less/not as frequently?
Also do you know how much they used in the stumptailed study? The preview on google books cuts out page 460 which I think outlines the dosage and frequency they used for the study.

 

[mykal_P]

2)No one knows exactly about application time, but to make things simple :

leave RU on the scalp for one hour..used on dry or wet scalp if fine.

Do you have to rinse it off after that, or is that the minimum time to see any results from it. If left on longer than an hour what happens?



We need more balding chemists on here, help make this stuff for us.

 

[kento]

Hey dutasteride how come you don't use RU with minoxidil like they did in the study,

Can you post a link from that study? Like i know the main problem at RU is that it's very unstable.

Because plan to be on "hardcore" topical regime up to 6 applications per day, i got that idea to mix some of the topicals. But most of people for better results recommend to use them separate.

 

[el_duterino]

I don't remember seeing a study where they mixed minoxidil to RU...can you post a link ?

Anyway, we do know that RU is not very stable IN A LOTION, therefore I advise to use fresh powder whenever possible.

I did notice beter results with fresh powder used shortly before each application.


RU can take some heat in powder form, but does form clumps when humidity is drawn..this powder is very hygroscopic. I don;t thinsk that this affects effectiveness a major way.



You don't have to rinse it off..the time indicated is just to make sure that the topical has enough time to get properly absorbed and has time to affect the androgen receptors.

I would advise to use 20mg of RU powder per application/day. and also use some finasteride + fluridil.

This 20mg of RU can be easily diluted in 5ml or 10ml of the alcophol/PG lotion..does not matter the % since only the total amount of RU is important.

Invest in a good precise electronic balance (cost about $30-$50).

 

[Bryan]

Hey dutasteride how come you don't use RU with minoxidil like they did in the study,

Can you post a link from that study? Like i know the main problem at RU is that it's very unstable.

The abstract for that study is below. BTW, I don't know that RU is "unstable" at all. There's been a lot of speculation about that on hairloss sites, but that's all it is: speculation. I've read almost all the RU58841 studies, and I've never seen anything about it being supposedly "unstable".

"The Effect of Topical RU58841 (Androgen Receptor Blocker) Combined With Minoxidil on Hair Growth in Macaque Androgenetic Alopecia", K. Imamura, A. Bonfils, A. Diani, and H. Uno. Wisconsin Primate Research Center, Univ. Wisconsin, Madison, WI, USA, Hoechst Marion Roussel, Romainvill, France, and Pharmacia-Upjohn, Kalamazoo, MI, USA.

Our previous studies demonstrated that the treatment with either RU58841 (RU) or minoxidil (M) alone induced significant hair regrowth in the bald stumptail macaques. However, the rate of hair growth has not significantly progressed after 6 months. This implies that M stimulates follicular cell proliferation but is unable to halt androgenetic follicular regression. On the contrary, RU prevents androgenetic follicular regression but appears to have no direct stimulating effect on follicular cell growth.

The present study was aimed to evaluate the effect of combined RU 5% (RU-5) with M 2% (M-2) or M 5% (M-5) solution on hair regrowth by both photographic recording and micromorphometrical analysis of follicular growth (folliculogram). The vehicle, mixture of propylene glycol, alcohol, and water, was used for both compounds and was applied to the placebo group. Each group has 3 monkeys. The data of hair growth for RU-5, M-2, and M-5 groups were used the results from our previous studies. The results revealed that the initial hair regrowth was noticed as early as 1 month after treatment in RU-5 + M-5 and 2 months in RU-5 + M-2 group. The similar degree of hair growth noticed at 3 months after treatment with RU-5 and M-5 alone. In M-2 group, the hairiness maintained but showed no noticeable regrowth. At 3 months, regrowth of long terminal hairs appeared in both RU-5 + M-2 and RU-5 + M-5 groups and these hairs maintained for 6 to 12 months. The overall rate of anagen conversion conversion and follicular enlargement were higher in combined groups compared to RU-5 and M-5 alone and revealed no significant difference between RU-5 + M-2 and RU-5 + M-5. The follicular growth was not found in M-2 group. Progressive effect of hair growth by combined treatment of antiandrogen with hypertrichotic agent showed most remarkably in early stage, but within one year the overall effects of hair regrowth revealed no significant difference compared to the rate in RU-5 or M-5 alone. Long-term observation will be necessary to find the synergetic effects on the follicular growth.

 

[Bryan]

I don't remember seeing a study where they mixed minoxidil to RU...can you post a link ?

The abstract of that study is above, but please note that they don't really make absolutely clear whether they mixed the minoxidil and RU together in the same vehicle, or applied them separately.

Anyway, we do know that RU is not very stable IN A LOTION...

We don't really know that, although there's been a lively discussion about it on hairloss sites.

 

[Bryan]

Also do you know how much they used in the stumptailed study?

There's been more than one RU58841 study with stumptailed macaques, but I do know that in one of them (the first one?), they applied 0.5 mL every day of various solutions that ranged from 0.5% to 5% in concentration. Interestingly, even the 0.5% solution seemed to be able to stop further balding, even though it didn't regrow much hair.

Here's a scan of that macaque study with RU58841. Scroll down about half-way to see their comment about the favorable effect of even the 0.5% solution:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/RU58841a.htm

 

[el_duterino]

I remember that Vitaminox, who used to sell a 3% RU pre-made lotion had some issues with shelf life and decided to drop the product because of that.

I used their 3% lotion for a while and found it less effective than my own mixes using fresh powder each time at the same percentage.

RU has never been tested for stability in various lotions, so we never will know exactly and who quickly it degrades.

Since it is expensive and a bit unconvenient to order, I'd suggest minimizing the risk of possible degradation by using fresh powder as often as possible.

Good monkey study..too bad they did not also test RU + finasteride.

 

[zayin]

I've been on RU for over 10 months now. Does it work? I honestly don't know. I have lost a little bit of hair, but I came off finasteride for a few months...have started dutasteride now and ,strangely, experience less sides... The thing I do noticed while on RU is that it doesnt reduce sebum production at all (which is I believe an indicator of how well it binds to the androgen receptors). I just mix it with minoxidil. I make a new batch every 3 days (5%), but I am now going to make a fresh solution daily as El dutasteride suggested...I'll keep you updated. It isnt the amazing topical I hoped for, but if it can maintain what I've got then I would be a happy man!

Zayin (Bora on HLH)

 

[Nuli]

^Thanks for posting your experience. Not too many RU users around.

 

[waynakyo]

Really, who is using RU ?
Please just identify yourself. It seems there are around 5 max on this forum, is this possible ?

 

[waynakyo]

El dutasteride
I am going to order it finally. If the batch comes while on vacation and hence stays in a box at the reception for a couple of weeks would it lose its effectiveness ??
I am not sure how long t usually take them to ship it.

Thanks

 

[zayin]

dont think anyone knows, but it should probably be fine.... If you are going to try it I suggest you commit yourself to it for at least 12 months and then evaluate. I'm at nearly 10 months now..not impressed..but I am anxious to drop it because I might then lose more hair.

 

[blink]

can someone point me to the place to purchase RU? faith eagle says its for research only on the website.

 

[first]

BTW, I don't know that RU is "unstable" at all. There's been a lot of speculation about that on hairloss sites, but that's all it is: speculation. I've read almost all the RU58841 studies, and I've never seen anything about it being supposedly "unstable".

It is definitely unstable. If I mix up a full batch I notice it has almost no effect after a couple of weeks, as if the RU has completely deteriorated.

It could be because I keep the solution in the fridge instead of the freezer but most likely it is due to it getting worse and worse the longer it is in the solution. I've tried many different carriers yet the end result is the same, if the RU remains in the solution it will lose potency after a while, so my experience is identical to el_duterino in that regard.

 

[powersam]

BTW, I don't know that RU is "unstable" at all. There's been a lot of speculation about that on hairloss sites, but that's all it is: speculation. I've read almost all the RU58841 studies, and I've never seen anything about it being supposedly "unstable".

It is definitely unstable. If I mix up a full batch I notice it has almost no effect after a couple of weeks, as if the RU has completely deteriorated.

It could be because I keep the solution in the fridge instead of the freezer but most likely it is due to it getting worse and worse the longer it is in the solution. I've tried many different carriers yet the end result is the same, if the RU remains in the solution it will lose potency after a while, so my experience is identical to el_duterino in that regard.

How could you possible know if it is effective or not in a period of weeks?

Do you get systemic side effects which are immediately noticeable?

 

[Bryan]

BTW, I don't know that RU is "unstable" at all. There's been a lot of speculation about that on hairloss sites, but that's all it is: speculation. I've read almost all the RU58841 studies, and I've never seen anything about it being supposedly "unstable".

It is definitely unstable. If I mix up a full batch I notice it has almost no effect after a couple of weeks, as if the RU has completely deteriorated.

Really? And how do you know that it has "almost no effect"?

It could be because I keep the solution in the fridge instead of the freezer but most likely it is due to it getting worse and worse the longer it is in the solution. I've tried many different carriers yet the end result is the same, if the RU remains in the solution it will lose potency after a while, so my experience is identical to el_duterino in that regard.

Again: how do you know that it "loses potency"?

 

[first]

Really? And how do you know that it has "almost no effect"?
Again: how do you know that it "loses potency"?

I gain some vellus hair pretty much straight away when it is freshly made and unless I've recently mixed it, those will drop off.