Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[tzt]

I'm still waiting my derma pen to arrive from china, and in the meantime i want to buy a dermaroller for like a daily or other day usage, i'm hesitating between 0.5 or 0.75 mm.
which one do you recommend me, and i want to know if the 0.75 need a numbing cream ?

 

[arromanus]

You can also get blood tests for autoimmune disorders

lymphocytes etc. ?

I'm still waiting my derma pen to arrive from china, and in the meantime i want to buy a dermaroller for like a daily or other day usage, i'm hesitating between 0.5 or 0.75 mm.
which one do you recommend me, and i want to know if the 0.75 need a numbing cream ?

Today i had my first Derma Pen session, and i would say that even 1mm doesnt hurt, just light stinging,
although when i use my Derma Roller 1mm it realy hurts and there are big blood spots, in the same time i felt pain only when i set my pen to 1.5mm, and only then did the blood spots appear

 

[Raksha]

I'm thinking about switching from the dermaroller to the derma pen. I've been using the roller for 8 months and I have a ton of little hairs all over, some are longer and darker, but It seems like the vellus hairs are having trouble becoming terminal. They aren't exactly vellus hairs though because they are longer and thicker. They are just really light in color. They also weren't on my scalp before dermarolling.

Maybe I'm just being impatient, but I imagine the derma pen would be better because it's consistently going in at 1.5mm where with the roller you have to make sure you are always pressing hard.

I'm wondering do we know if people get better results with the pen? Or does anyone have any experience switching over and getting better results?

 

[kungfukenny]

Yeah should definitely get your thyroid checked, just in case. My TSH level was at 5.4 when I got it checked, managed to get it down to 2.2 by eating healthy, exercise and taking a curcumin supplement.

 

[mamamia06]

Newbie here. Wife of subject and now drafted to be dermaroller practitioner on said subject

I'm a HUGE over researcher. I found dermarolling for my own use for lines/wrinkles/skin tone, etc, then stumbled on it for hair loss. DH is a non-responder to minoxidil, hair loss is still getting worse, but still uses it daily. I've read a bunch of this thread now and I just really, really question using anything but the dermarolling alone. I know that seems counter-intuitive, but hear me out.

Dermatologists have a LOT of money to lose if dermarolling alone works for fine lines and even deep wrinkles, not to mention acne scarring. They invest like $100k in machines and have to recoup their losses. They also need patients in the door, so they have to create NEED. If everyone can kind of dramatically improve their aging faces at home ... for maybe $20 ... well that's a problem. Less plastic surgeries, less in-office peels, less $, less everything. So now everyone's talking about the vampire facial, which is basically dermarolling with PCP. They are also getting into dermarolling with radiofrequency, and yes, that's yet another machine for them to buy (one version: Profound). There are NO controlled studies that I've found yet that show a drastic difference using PCP, and the docs can charge upwards of $1000 a session for dermarolling plus pcp.

Now take it to the hair loss arena. The one study that showed rolling alone and rolling with minoxidil - and the result was the top two rated results equaled out between the two. Showed no real advantage to minoxidil. I used to be a drug rep and I know how this game works, especially on the cosmetic improvement side of derm and plastic surgeon's offices.

Anyone else have thoughts/ideas on this? Doesn't it make sense that cosmetic doctors of all kinds have to create a NEED, especially if dermarolling works as well by itself as they're seeing? And let's not forget the companies that make minoxidil under different labels.

 

[Necr0sis]

Hey guys,

I’ve been thinking of switching to 1.0 mm on the derminator 2 for a while because I’m paranoid that the shedding from the bleeding I’m getting from 1.5-1.75 mm is counterproductive.

Anyone have experience or knowledge with these lower needle settings? Is it just a waste of time?

 

[Capone]

A

We have a lot of people who are only dermarolling to see it this theory holds up. I'm dermarolling and in my 6 month now. 2mm/once ever 2 weeks.

Most people who only dermaroll don't seem to have gotten any positive results, so far it's the same with me. Although one or two people itt claimed to have maintained with microneedling.

I think minoxidil or anything else like maybe castor oil, is needed to have good results.

and quite a few said it make their hair loss worse when using alone.

 

[Capone]

Newbie here. Wife of subject and now drafted to be dermaroller practitioner on said subject

I'm a HUGE over researcher. I found dermarolling for my own use for lines/wrinkles/skin tone, etc, then stumbled on it for hair loss. DH is a non-responder to minoxidil, hair loss is still getting worse, but still uses it daily. I've read a bunch of this thread now and I just really, really question using anything but the dermarolling alone. I know that seems counter-intuitive, but hear me out.

Dermatologists have a LOT of money to lose if dermarolling alone works for fine lines and even deep wrinkles, not to mention acne scarring. They invest like $100k in machines and have to recoup their losses. They also need patients in the door, so they have to create NEED. If everyone can kind of dramatically improve their aging faces at home ... for maybe $20 ... well that's a problem. Less plastic surgeries, less in-office peels, less $, less everything. So now everyone's talking about the vampire facial, which is basically dermarolling with PCP. They are also getting into dermarolling with radiofrequency, and yes, that's yet another machine for them to buy (one version: Profound). There are NO controlled studies that I've found yet that show a drastic difference using PCP, and the docs can charge upwards of $1000 a session for dermarolling plus pcp.

Now take it to the hair loss arena. The one study that showed rolling alone and rolling with minoxidil - and the result was the top two rated results equaled out between the two. Showed no real advantage to minoxidil. I used to be a drug rep and I know how this game works, especially on the cosmetic improvement side of derm and plastic surgeon's offices.

Anyone else have thoughts/ideas on this? Doesn't it make sense that cosmetic doctors of all kinds have to create a NEED, especially if dermarolling works as well by itself as they're seeing? And let's not forget the companies that make minoxidil under different labels.

How are your results using it on your face, lines, etc?

 

[mamamia06]

Just started two weeks ago but happy to keep you guys posted. The proven results on the face for either acne scarring, old scars, or wrinkles is extensive. And this is even just microneedling. Hardly any MD's offices post results of microneedling alone, and I can figure out why pretty easily.

Here's one doctor who publishes results just under the heading "Microneedling," and says after microneedling these folks were treated with either hyaluronic acid (a strong moisturizer) OR pcp. But it doesn't say they got results ONLY with prp. Seems more candid, or one could say honest, to me:

https://fannyjberg-md.com/MicroNeedling

 

[GrowPro]

Newbie here. Wife of subject and now drafted to be dermaroller practitioner on said subject

I'm a HUGE over researcher. I found dermarolling for my own use for lines/wrinkles/skin tone, etc, then stumbled on it for hair loss. DH is a non-responder to minoxidil, hair loss is still getting worse, but still uses it daily. I've read a bunch of this thread now and I just really, really question using anything but the dermarolling alone. I know that seems counter-intuitive, but hear me out.

Dermatologists have a LOT of money to lose if dermarolling alone works for fine lines and even deep wrinkles, not to mention acne scarring. They invest like $100k in machines and have to recoup their losses. They also need patients in the door, so they have to create NEED. If everyone can kind of dramatically improve their aging faces at home ... for maybe $20 ... well that's a problem. Less plastic surgeries, less in-office peels, less $, less everything. So now everyone's talking about the vampire facial, which is basically dermarolling with PCP. They are also getting into dermarolling with radiofrequency, and yes, that's yet another machine for them to buy (one version: Profound). There are NO controlled studies that I've found yet that show a drastic difference using PCP, and the docs can charge upwards of $1000 a session for dermarolling plus pcp.

Now take it to the hair loss arena. The one study that showed rolling alone and rolling with minoxidil - and the result was the top two rated results equaled out between the two. Showed no real advantage to minoxidil. I used to be a drug rep and I know how this game works, especially on the cosmetic improvement side of derm and plastic surgeon's offices.

Anyone else have thoughts/ideas on this? Doesn't it make sense that cosmetic doctors of all kinds have to create a NEED, especially if dermarolling works as well by itself as they're seeing? And let's not forget the companies that make minoxidil under different labels.

Hi

I agree with most of what you’re saying, with the exception that rolling/needling alone is just as good at producing results as needling+minoxidil. I think that when microneedling for hair growth a good amount of blood circulation is needed in order to supply oxygen/nutrients/blood to the newly forming hair cells as there’s an “embryonic” time period for collagen of the newly microneedled skin to either gain nutrients and blood to form hair cells or just turn into skin tissue, and minoxidil supposedly does, sure you don’t have to use minoxidil or anything but then it may take the body a pretty long time to do so without some good assistance, I liken it to planting seeds but not watering the soil or adding compost/manure to get the plant or tree growing more rapidly. And I just want to add I hate using minoxidil and how messy it is but I’m giving it a good shot with the microneedling.

I recently purchased a usb microscope to see if any actual hairs have formed and growing from microneedling with 1x daily minoxidil and I have seen many new hairs beginning to sprout after only a little over month and 6-sessions of starting microneedling as opposed to only seeing very little growth from just using a derm roller at .5mm in years past. Now using a derma pen and 1.5-2mm needling.

How far along are you with your spouse with the derma rolling for hair? Regimen? Seeing Progress?

 

[mamamia06]

Just started on him, too - 1.5mm, weekly. Took before pics so we're good there.

As far as your thoughts, I understand them, but notice you're using the words "I think." And my point no really good, long term studies have been done and very few short term. I'd love to see a BIG study with Group A: microneedling alone, Group B: microneedling plus minoxidil,and Group C: just minoxidil. And over 6-9 months.

 

[GrowPro]

Just started on him, too - 1.5mm, weekly. Took before pics so we're good there.

As far as your thoughts, I understand them, but notice you're using the words "I think." And my point no really good, long term studies have been done and very few short term. I'd love to see a BIG study with Group A: microneedling alone, Group B: microneedling plus minoxidil,and Group C: just minoxidil. And over 6-9 months.

Sounds great, hope he gets some good progress and that you share photos of it.

As for greater studies that you want to see, unfortunately that’s not happening, and the answer to why not is it’s right in your first post, $$$, why would any large bio/pharma/cosmetics corporation waste their money on studies to prove concepts that could bankrupt them of their profits if everyone can dermaroll for $20 and you won’t see any medical universities doing them either as they get much of their funding from said corporations with some exceptions. We just have to go by the anecdotal “evidence” we see here and with our own eyes if microneedling on ourselves.

 

[badhabiz]

We have a lot of people who are only dermarolling to see it this theory holds up. I'm dermarolling and in my 6 month now. 2mm/once ever 2 weeks.

Most people who only dermaroll don't seem to have gotten any positive results, so far it's the same with me. Although one or two people itt claimed to have maintained with microneedling.

I think minoxidil or anything else like maybe castor oil, is needed to have good results.

any specific reason for not using minoxidil? if I may ask

 

[mamamia06]

I believe the few small controlled studies out there show results with microneedling alone, albeit after some time. Honestly I'm not so greatly against using minoxidil, (especially vs the very expensive md office only PCP), but still wonder if even the minoxidil is needed or if the mechanism of action is just basically the wounding response, no matter what you put on after. That one study, after rolling, used either hyaluronic acid or minoxidil, and the first is just a good beefy moisturizer. Showed the same results.

Here's one you've seen before - that didn't show microneedling alone but with minoxidil vs minoxidil only:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

Comparing with micro/pcp/minoxidil vs minoxidil alone:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5514790/

Here's an abstract:
Androgenic alopecia and alopecia areata

Use of microneedling over scalp for alopecia is one of its recent advances. It has been compared with minoxidil alone and has been found to be better in combination.[47],[48] Home-use dermarollers are prescribed to patients who are using minoxidil, and a better hair growth is observed. However, when topical minoxidil was compared with Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) and microneedling therapy in a recent study, minoxidil alone continued to remain better.[49] Microneedling has also been combined with topical triamcinolone acetonide application in alopecia areata and better response has been observed [Table 5].[50]

 

[74775446]

I’m curious to hear from people who had shedding from needling. Did you eventually recover?

I’m thinking of stopping for a while, or toning it down a lot, to like 1 mm or so

I shed a lot in the first month and then recovered very well.

 

[74775446]

Sorry for the lack of updates but I've been quite unwell recently. I've not been able to dermaroll or apply minoxidil for about 3 months now but I don't think I've lost any of my gains. If I have then I've certainly not lost enough to notice in the mirror.

I have resumed dermarolling and application of minoxidil so will do my best to provide updates.

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

I do wounding once in 10 days due to my poor healing tendency. I use minoxidil once a day and I have started castor oil which is known to be prostaglandin D2 inhibitor. Will castor oils help me ? What do you think?

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

I use castor oil twice a week,should I continue?

 

[74775446]

I do wounding once in 10 days due to my poor healing tendency. I use minoxidil once a day and I have started castor oil which is known to be prostaglandin D2 inhibitor. Will castor oils help me ? What do you think?

I've missed a lot on here but I would just copy the study, i.e. dermaroll and apply minoxidil twice a day. It's easy to over complicate this but the initial study wasn't complicated at all.

 

[BigOl'BaldingHead]

Sorry for the lack of updates but I've been quite unwell recently. I've not been able to dermaroll or apply minoxidil for about 3 months now but I don't think I've lost any of my gains. If I have then I've certainly not lost enough to notice in the mirror.

I have resumed dermarolling and application of minoxidil so will do my best to provide updates.

Thats pretty impressive because I always thought that not using minoxidil for even only a week results in shedding. So maybe there is some truth to the fibrosis theory after all.