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- 123
Sorry if it’s already been asked, but what’s your regimen? Are you on min?
Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless
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Congrats man. What is your massage routine? How many times a day? And do you do it manually?
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Add scalp massages to your regimen if you haven't already. I dermarolled for around 7 to 8 months with no results. Now I am following chen's regimen and do scalp massages daily. My hair has improved.
https://www.amazon.in/Robotouch-Smart-Scalp-Relief-Massager/dp/B07G9JGMJ4/
It is said to reduce fibrosis. This study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4740347/ demonstrated quite good results. From a quick look, it upregulates the WNT genes. Microneedling does that too. Perhaps wounding combined with mechanical stress better activates the WNT pathway than either of these alone.
bluesuedeshoes
Established Member
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- 96
Just bought this. It's pretty good but I wish it was more powerful. Be great if they released one that runs off AC power and goes to town on the fibrosis. Using it has made me realise how inflamed and sore my scalp is. Hopefully this calms it down a bit (though a touch concerned that pressing hard against these sore areas will encourage more loss).
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So I just saw in the RepliCell thread someone posting a screenshot with a schedule from this hair congress thing, and one of the talks was about microneedling, so hopefully they'll have some scientifically rigorous data to present that might give us all a better idea of optimal frequency + regimen details. I'm not sure if they release the content of the talk to the public though or how it works? I know people in that thread were talking about sending to someone to it, is that the only way to really have an idea of what the talks are?
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Do you guys actually change the needle cartridges with every session ? They are rather expensive and I would like to know if they can be used on an extended time period without changing them. Thanks !
I don't. Have used it 4-5 times in the last 3 months. I just let then needles sit in some ethanol and clean it with a little brush.
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Can this liquid be an alternative to Minoxidil? It has DHT blockers & ingredients.
https://www.tabletshablet.com/produ...fp1ES-jXdehiO1_NXrOWiZpsOPZg8bNxoCoGMQAvD_BwE
https://www.tabletshablet.com/produ...fp1ES-jXdehiO1_NXrOWiZpsOPZg8bNxoCoGMQAvD_BwE
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Left: March 14
Right: Now
What do you think?
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It’s difficult to deny that microneedling does something, personally I’m very interested. I think what people with negative views question is whether 1) cosmetically significant results, like the results of the poster that inspired the thread, are common 2) maintenance beyond the minoxidil average of 1-2 years is common, 3) the extent to which micro needling not minoxidil is doing the heavy work. I think these are a fair questions and although I think this thread and the related thread are the most exciting thing going on here at the moment, the most compelling evidence remains the actual scientific studies. I’d love to see larger scientific studies looking at microneedlinh.
Totally agree. We have seen some examples of great results, but it still to be seen if these are exceptions or common results. According to the chinese study everybody had success, but I am still unsure if this is really the case. I started one and half month ago only, but so far zero results. I know way too early, I am planning to stay in for at least one year, more probably two.
I also have the impression that it takes longer to recover for hair lost long time before, while people showing very early results seems younger and lower norwoods. Just speculation, its needed more investigation.
And yes, a new scientific study over a large sample of people would be great. Also for understanding the which extent microneedling itself works OR increased minoxidil absorbsion instead.
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I think one issue is also a lack of standardization re: frequency, depth, type of needling (e.g. roller vs pen vs derminator) etc etc. Could very well be that it just doesn't do anything unless it's within a certain frequency+depth range.
Also it seems like a lot of the best respondents are people who started balding very early (<20) and started doing this almost immediately, meaning might not work well if you've been balding for a long time.
Also it seems like a lot of the best respondents are people who started balding very early (<20) and started doing this almost immediately, meaning might not work well if you've been balding for a long time.
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My understanding is that microneedling every 10/14 days is done for wounding: creating blood spots all over the scalp. Every person has a different sensitivity and feel more or less pain. So for somebody is better 1.5, for other 2. I personally do it at 1.5 on the frontline and 2 elsewhere. The goal is wounding. Speed also is only a variable in order to achieve wounding. Once wounding/blood spots are achieved, I guess it doesnt matter the exact depth and speed. Only my two cents, far from scientific, only speculation based on what read here so far.
Soft/daily dermarolling (Chen style) is done to achieve redness without wounding: it looks like 0.5/1 is the range here.
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Yeah, the Chen case also throws a wrench into any attempts to be 'scientific' about it since he was one of the best responders (if not THE best) and did the polar opposite of what seems to be the consensus of high depth+low frequency.
Very interesting post. About point 1 and 2 I think we have good anecdotal evidence pointing to effectiveness and long term mantainance. But it could be possible that some form of antiandrogenic protection may be needed at some point though. Cells migrating to the wound site come from dht sensitive follicles.
About minoxidil doing the heavy lifting, mmm... it all depends the depth and frequency of wounding. The chinese study had a microneedling arm only with an increase of 23 hair per cm2 and follica's abrasion only results were similar (25).
For those using 0.5 mm - 1 mm dermarollers, yes of course but for longer needles the wound healing response plays a very important role.
Someone posted a study about minoxidil impact on wnt beta catenin pathway, which is critical for hair regrowth. If this signaling pathway is overexpressed on superficial skin wounds, the regrowth chance increases.
So it seems to be more a synergistic thing rather than better absorption of the drug.
I agree we need more research but remember big pharma companies arent interested on this because there isnt much money to be made.
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M
Member 139756
Guest
Can anybody summarise what Chen's method is?
Length of needles. Roller Vs pen. Frequency. Proximity to minoxidil application. Intention (whether to wound or just make red).
Sorry, I read through about 30 pages after Google searching for Chen's name (absorbing an unhealthy amount of transphobia in the process - btw, thanks for kicking down on us, guys) and didn't see much beyond "it's like Somebody's mehodm but not exactly" and "high frequency".
Thanks in advance if anybody summarises.
Obviously it'll help other newcomers / lurkers too.
I wonder how many people end up here in passing and never see the regimens before moving on...
Surely there needs to be a master thread of regimens, each in their own post on page one and edit-updated as new data / results come in?
(Maybe there is such a thread and I just don't know about it.)
Length of needles. Roller Vs pen. Frequency. Proximity to minoxidil application. Intention (whether to wound or just make red).
Sorry, I read through about 30 pages after Google searching for Chen's name (absorbing an unhealthy amount of transphobia in the process - btw, thanks for kicking down on us, guys) and didn't see much beyond "it's like Somebody's mehodm but not exactly" and "high frequency".
Thanks in advance if anybody summarises.
Obviously it'll help other newcomers / lurkers too.
I wonder how many people end up here in passing and never see the regimens before moving on...
Surely there needs to be a master thread of regimens, each in their own post on page one and edit-updated as new data / results come in?
(Maybe there is such a thread and I just don't know about it.)