The disappointment of some after not seeing results in the Indian study 3-month time frame is understandable. Many good points have already been raised about it and there are some more - let's try a "Brief History of Time" and hopefully raise some motivation
THE GOOD
SCI PROVEN: unlike many treatments here, needling is supported by 2+ SCI papers;
HUGE GAINS POSSIBLE: few treatments (if any) have the potential to generate the regrowth documented by HairLossTalk.com / BTT anecdotes:
@74775446 (NON-responder to minoxidil alone)
View attachment 112693
@layabout (NON-responder to minoxidil alone)
View attachment 112694
@PrettyFly (NON-responder to needling for almost a year)
View attachment 112695
@Ludachris Batbak
View attachment 112696
THE BAD
HI-EFFORT: needling requires substantial effort / pain, motivated only by results - no early results = quitting;
MANY UNKNOWNS: there are many needling parameters we do not know the optimal value of:
Device? Depth? Duration? Frequency? minoxidil immediately or later?
REPEATABILITY:
Studies = needling by a PRO = repeatable every-time for everybody;
HairLossTalk.com Trial = needling by John Smith = random depth, duration, frequency, topicals, supplements etc. -
probably the main reason we are not achieving the "everybody improves in 3 months" study result;
THE WAY FORWARD
The studies / anecdotes have proven needling efficacy - what we need to address is THE BAD above:
@EFFORT: those who'd quit due to the lack of results, it makes sense doing it the
@sportsguy97 way:
scrap most effort & keep 1 monthly wounding - you stay in the game (a proven one) and long term might have more gains than we currently expect from such regimen;
@UNKNOWNS: there are so many it's intimidating, but we do have some data:
the best early responders cannot be doing much wrong - or they wouldn't respond (!)
Yes, we are all different - but their regimens are a good place to start with, tweaking (as little as possible) to our needs - i.e.:
DEVICE = Pen / Derminator (
@layabout &
@74775446 &
@Ludachris Batbak); rollers and stamps work(
@2young2retire), but are too painful for many to reach depth & intensity);
DEPTH = 1.5mm (studies &
@layabout &
@Ludachris Batbak;
@74775446 = 2mm, but said "might not have reached full depth");
DURATION = approx. 7-12 min w/pen (
@layabout &
@74775446 mentioned similar times);
INTENSITY = redness & few blood spots (
@layabout &
@74775446);
FREQUENCY = 7-10 days (indian study,
@layabout,
@Ludachris Batbak,
@74775446); less frequently might do the trick, but might require more time = more quitters (remember - Indian weekly study results are @3 months, but Chinese bi-weekly needling results are @6 months = twice the time);
minoxidil = earlier / better results (studies,
@layabout,
@Ludachris Batbak,
@74775446): consider using if anxious / prone to quitting;
better not immediately after needling to avoid sides (indian study &
@74775446 (5% Kirkland liquid) = 24h,
@layabout (5% LipoGaine RED) = 4 h);
RINSING = tap water only / NO disinfectant (
@74775446) - wonder if disinfectants on fresh wounds could tamper with needling benefits?;
SUPPLEMENTS = none
@74775446 ("junk food") but had initial shed;
@layabout no shed - wonder if due to supplements / nutrients availability (Biotin, D3 & K2, Proteins, B12, Omega-3):
www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/very-impressive-dermarolling-and-minxodil-results-from-tressless.117746/page-334#post-1766972
@REPEATABILITY: hopefully by keeping the parameters as consistent as possible with the ones (above) that have given the best early results, we are on our way to improvement too;
(BTW: most of the above is documented in the excellent @Bill_Russo FAQ thread:
www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-faqs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/)
QUESTIONS FOR RESPONDERS
(1) RINSING: @layabout,
@Ludachris Batbak,
@2young2retire
After needling you use tap water only or/and something else?
(2) ROLLING MID WEEK: @layabout:
You have mentioned light rolling (w/o redness) mid-week between derminations gets rid of itch which Derminator doesn't - have you tried derminating e.g @0.25mm for same effect?
Do you do it also for minoxidil absorption / do you apply it straight after?
SUMMARY
There is no warranty for needling to work for everyone, but given the available data it sure looks one of our best bets available: so let's attack & wound that bald scalp at least once monthly - and Good Luck to you all!
