Update: Follica's Presentation At The 2017 Aad Meeting

Pavi

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Brutal. Trust me. It's going to be exactly that. Use logical comprehension and you'll understand it. Especially after reading that particular document.

"There is also a clinical study conducted by a third party academic group which validates the approach that Follica plans on pursuing, which the Directors believe is covered by Follica’s intellectual property. The company is currently planning a fourth human study to begin in 2016."

Lol, follica even thinks that R. Dhurat study falls under their IP.

But don't you think they would be exposed by someone if they're marketing their treatment as New when it already exists? Furthermore, how closely is their data related to that study you said? And did that study create follicles?
 

Swoop

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But don't you think they would be exposed by someone if they're marketing their treatment as New when it already exists? Furthermore, how closely is their data related to that study you said? And did that study create follicles?

No why would it matter if they were "exposed"?

I haven't looked at that particularly but the R. Dhurat study shows good numbers. The study didn't evaluate if it created new follicles.

Follica = R. Dhurat study basically.

Microneedling + minoxidil.

Took them 11 years for this, but it's better than nothing.
 

Royaume

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Did someone of you notice Dr. Bhanusalis Instagram post with the Follica poster from the Orlando conference and the hashtag with #Minoxidil?

Seems that now it's confirmed that Minoxidil is definitely included?
 

mr_robot

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Did someone of you notice Dr. Bhanusalis Instagram post with the Follica poster and the hashtag with #Minoxidil?

Seems that now it's confirmed that Minoxidil is definitely included?

Maybe, but could be just hijacking a common hashtag related to balding.
 

hairblues

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No why would it matter if they were "exposed"?

I haven't looked at that particularly but the R. Dhurat study shows good numbers. The study didn't evaluate if it created new follicles.

Follica = R. Dhurat study basically.

Microneedling + minoxidil.

Took them 11 years for this, but it's better than nothing.

Im tempted to do micro needling but would rather wait for professional to do it.

I might ask my Dr next time i see him because i know he does micro needling when he does PRP maybe he will do it on me (just needling) and teach me how to do it at home he is pretty cool.

I just would not want to damage myself or do more harm then good on my own.
 

tress_dreams

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So was the speculation about Follica's use of a laser for wounding proven untrue? If it is merely needling with minoxidil then they're going to have a hard time with IP. I think the compound will include additional antagonists or growth factors. Either way, so long as it's proven effective at increasing density and possible neogenesis I'm in. Let's hope it's released before I'm NW3+ (FML).
 

the smoking baby

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It seems that everyone who microneedles uses the 1.5 mm dermaroller/dermastamp. Yet, the average length of a hair follicle is 4 mm with different stem cell populations located along that length. If we are only reaching a certain population with that length of microneedling, I am hoping that the deeper abrasion/needling/laser which Follica is developing will allow minoxidil/latanaprost/other FDA-approved compounds to reach the deeper stem cell populations.
 

the smoking baby

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So was the speculation about Follica's use of a laser for wounding proven untrue? If it is merely needling with minoxidil then they're going to have a hard time with IP. I think the compound will include additional antagonists or growth factors. Either way, so long as it's proven effective at increasing density and possible neogenesis I'm in. Let's hope it's released before I'm NW3+ (FML).

Follica's patent for its proprietary device for skin disruption uses a laser to ablate the skin. I'm surmising that since a dermatologist is involved in the initial treatment, the in-office device would be far more invasive than simple microneedling. The at-home device might be a combination of a dermastamp-like device with a mechanism to deliver minoxidil/latanoprost.
 

tress_dreams

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That's great to hear. I bet the laser does a far better job of wounding without scar tissue and doing so at the right depth. That just leaves the million dollar question: what does their in office compound consist of?
 

the smoking baby

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I'm personally excited for Follica - not because I think that it will reverse my NW6 in a timely manner but that it will demonstrate that deeper wounding with existing FDA-approved compounds will yield better results than at-home microneedling with minoxidil. If that's the case (ie, lower Norwood's respond favourably), then as we move forward with better compounds, like Samumed, the results would give me hope that there will eventually be a combo treatment which can restore hair to higher Norwood's like myself.
 

the smoking baby

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That's great to hear. I bet the laser does a far better job of wounding without scar tissue and doing so at the right depth. That just leaves the million dollar question: what does their in office compound consist of?

Well, again, going by their patents, the in-office treatment might consist of a laser-based device to ablate the skin about 4 mm deep - pretty much the same length of the average hair follicle. A lithium-glucate substance (the topical) would then be applied to the wound (again, I am only surmising based on their patents). The topical is meant to 'signal' to the stem cell populations to produce a hair follicle rather than just more skin cells - thus neogenesis. The topical is meant to stay on the 'wounded' skin for days and slowly release the compound into the scalp. I would assume that the at-home treatment is meant to keep that 'signalling' going.

I believe that DoctorHouse mentioned that the Follica rep confirmed that multiple trips to the dermatologist might be required. Not sure if that has to do with higher Norwoods requiring more frequent, aggressive treatments to respond or if only a certain area of a bald scalp can be treated at any one time and higher Norwoods (with a greater area of balding scalp) would need to go back for multiple trips in order to treat the entire area.
 

the smoking baby

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That's great to hear. I bet the laser does a far better job of wounding without scar tissue and doing so at the right depth. That just leaves the million dollar question: what does their in office compound consist of?
I think the laser would do quicker job and be more precise than any type of mechanical/chemical-based treatment. However, one of the more interesting aspects of their patent for their laser-device is that it is coupled with a scanner. When used in conjunction with software, the scanner would 'identify' an existing hair and turn off the laser as it moves over the hair. In this regard, one wouldn't need to shave their scalp to have the in-office treatment. As the device passes over the scalp, it would turn on when it does not identify an existing hair shaft and would turn off when it passes over an existing hair.
 

Swoop

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Well, again, going by their patents, the in-office treatment might consist of a laser-based device to ablate the skin about 4 mm deep

I mean are you even f*cking serious here?

Their device will perform TCP (disruption of skin, microneedling in this case) and you'll get a home applicator with a topical that will include minoxidil. Simple as that, you will see.

4mm mate you know how deep that even is? What we will walk out of the office like this?

boy-getting-his-head-wrapped-in-bandages.jpg


Totally scarred after?

Mate have a look at how dermabrasion is and this is nowhere near 4mm



Follica will pretty much be the same as the R. Dhurat study (maybe a bit fancier, that's all), I love how often they even refer to the study in papers.
 

the smoking baby

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Well, again, as mentioned, I am surmising what the in-office treatment will be based upon their patents. They have a patent for a laser-based device that can ablate the skin to 4 mm. As per the patent, it can be used for a variety of treatments - not just hair loss.

If it is just a more sophisticated microneedling device, than it would be disappointing - that's a given.
 

Swoop

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If it is just a more sophisticated microneedling device, than it would be disappointing - that's a given

Then prepare to be disappointed. Microneedling = form of TCP.

There is also a clinical study conducted by a third party academic group which validates the approach that Follica plans on pursuing, which the Directors believe is covered by Follica’s intellectual property. The company is currently planning a fourth human study to begin in 2016.

In addition, a recent clinical trial carried out by a third party academic group not affiliated with Follica supports the clinical viability of the perturbation modalities covered by Follica’s intellectual property

Follica’s hypothesis was further strengthened when a third party academic group, working independently of Follica, published positive results using a form of TCP and one drug Follica plans on adding to TCP in the future.


R. Dhurat GOD :D!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
 
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Swoop

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Out of curiosity (and with no animus intended), why do you believe that the Follica device is just another microneedling device?

http://puretechhealth.com/images/investors/Puretech_Pi_e-Prospectus_Final_T08_CNB-v2.pdf

Have you read that full document? It's cheap, practical, relatively easy to perform by a clinician.

Admittedly, dermabrasion could be the only other possibility but that is simply not practical and attractive. Imagine diffuse areas for example. And you have seen the movie here above. Dermabrasion is actually invasive as f*ck.
 

mr_robot

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It seems that everyone who microneedles uses the 1.5 mm dermaroller/dermastamp. Yet, the average length of a hair follicle is 4 mm with different stem cell populations located along that length. If we are only reaching a certain population with that length of microneedling, I am hoping that the deeper abrasion/needling/laser which Follica is developing will allow minoxidil/latanaprost/other FDA-approved compounds to reach the deeper stem cell populations.

Going that deep will guarantee that you get scaring which means no hair there ever. People seem to miss understand the point of wounding, it's the growth factors that the body produces in response to the wound that is beneficial and not the wound itself.
 

pegasus2

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Follica = R. Dhurat study basically.

Microneedling + minoxidil.

Took them 11 years for this, but it's better than nothing.

Can we officially say that Cotsarelis' greatness is exaggerated now? Not that he hasn't done good work, but the output doesn't match the input.

Why are we so disappointed that Follica's system is little more than dermarolling and minoxidil? Now we know that the dermarolling study was legitimate. That's fantastic in my opinion. We have another option currently available to us besides the trans regimens. Follica will have additional compounds, and stem cells, and tell us the optimal depth and frequency for microneedling, but we have the basics already. I think the reason we haven't seen more results with dermarolling is because people go crazy with it. You don't need to do it until you're bleeding, and you don't need to go 4 mm deep.:eek: If you just disrupt the skin and start the wound healing process, the necessary genes are activated, and the growth factors and stem cells migrate to the follicle. You don't actually have to touch 4.5 mm deep. People are going overboard, destroying their follicles, and creating scar tissue. They need to go 1.5mm deep for just a few passes in each direction.
 

the smoking baby

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Going that deep will guarantee that you get scaring which means no hair there ever. People seem to miss understand the point of wounding, it's the growth factors that the body produces in response to the wound that is beneficial and not the wound itself.
But isn't the extent of the wound correlated to the amount of growth factors? If I scratch my skin, growth factors will occur. If I cut the skin, more growth factors will occur since the damage to the skin is greater. If I cut the skin deep enough, scarring occurs. So if you wound deep enough but not too deep, wouldn't you maximize the level of growth factors? I'm not sure because I have no biology training. But I can't help but wonder if microneedling at 1.5 mm yields limited results because it's not deep enough to trigger the best response.
 
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