Thoughts on my 20 Ingredient Hair Loss Serum

[whitecoatblackhat]

Melatonin + caffeine combo makes sense

Melatonin reduces cox2 expression while caffeine reduces cox2 protein. So it's very complementary.

Even if that's the case, I wouldn't do it.

To get anything out of these 2, you'll need to use larger doses.

If you use 15-20mg of melatonin per application, a certain percentage of it will undoubtedly leak into the serum.

The same goes for caffeine.

And you don't want both melatonin and caffeine circulating in your serum at the same time.

Hence why I wrote 'it doesn't make sense'. As in - it doesn't make sense to have them in the same solution.

The mixed signals you'll be giving your body aren't outweighed by the possible minor synergism between the two.

If you're keen on using both, add the caffeine to your morning topical and the melatonin to the evening one.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

I buy a lot of the substances that I'm using from certified EU labs through my business. They don't sell to individuals though, only to companies.

Which type of cetirizine - HCL, DiHCL or Levoceti?

Even though there shouldn't be a big difference, they do have different MWs.

Also, levoceti upregulates GSK-3b, ceti hcl/dihcl might also do the same. So pair it with a phospho-GSK-3beta agonist or some other type of GSK-3b antagonist.

Distilled water alone might be sufficient for ceti. I don't have experience with ceti, so I can't tell for certain. I've seen anecdotes in HairLossTalk.com stating that distilled water is sufficient.

For PG-free minoxidil, check trichosol.

man thank you so much for your answer , unfortunnately i can't handle trichosol smell at all it gives me crazy allergic reaction. honestly i've been looking for years for a stemox fragrance free and you'd be a lifesaviour if i could buy some from you whatever the prices is. thanks

 

[eternalyouth]

@MrKmass can you elaborate on topical finasteride combined with hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin? Do you have a source you can cite for this? I've seen some studies, but I couldn't find one showing that it reduced systemic absorption of finasteride (though admittedly, I didn't look hard enough, perhaps). Also, how much hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin would you use per mg of finasteride, and how would you compound it with finasteride?

Also found this study, which you may want to look into a little more carefully before continuing with hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncel.2017.00355/full
I haven't checked the quality of the study or journal it's published in. Also, it looks like administration in this study was IV, ICV, or intrathecal, which is far from topical, of course. Just figured it might be worth considering.

 

[whitecoatblackhat]

man thank you so much for your answer , unfortunnately i can't handle trichosol smell at all it gives me crazy allergic reaction. honestly i've been looking for years for a stemox fragrance free and you'd be a lifesaviour if i could buy some from you whatever the prices is. thanks

I see.

No problems at all, dm me.

But I'm telling you from now that buying stemox from a proper lab is undoubtedly unsustainable.

It's very cost-prohibitive due to still being under patent.

You might be better off buying branded stemox and distilling it to take out the AI.

I'll share with you some other potential sources for stemox, though.

I'll do my best to help you find a supplier.

 

[hair2stay]

Azelaic Acid!!!

 

[StayPositive]

Even if that's the case, I wouldn't do it.

To get anything out of these 2, you'll need to use larger doses.

If you use 15-20mg of melatonin per application, a certain percentage of it will undoubtedly leak into the serum.

The same goes for caffeine.

And you don't want both melatonin and caffeine circulating in your serum at the same time.

Hence why I wrote 'it doesn't make sense'. As in - it doesn't make sense to have them in the same solution.

The mixed signals you'll be giving your body aren't outweighed by the possible minor synergism between the two.

If you're keen on using both, add the caffeine to your morning topical and the melatonin to the evening one.

Yes i agree with you, you need to take them separately

 

[feelsbad]

@whitecoatblackhat is there a particular vehicle you recommend in general?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

If we had only known that baldness was in our future, we would have paid a lot more attention in chemistry class.

 

[whitecoatblackhat]

@whitecoatblackhat is there a particular vehicle you recommend in general?

Ethyoxydiglycol and Dimethyl isosorbide seem to be really promising.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

Ethyoxydiglycol and Dimethyl isosorbide seem to be really promising.

man 'm sorry to other you again but i'm trying to find a decent vehcile for minoxidil without ppg and with the least amount of alcool possible but who would still dry fast and absorb into the scalp to give good results ( i think i ried at least 15 different vehicle and brand but none give me results as good as the standard ppg ethanl water but i'm allergic to ppg) . do you have an idea what could i use seems you seem extremelly knowledgable on this topic ( can etgyoxydigliccol and dimethyl isosobide could be used?) tbh i'm lost as i'm way too low iq ... thanks

 

[whitecoatblackhat]

man 'm sorry to other you again but i'm trying to find a decent vehcile for minoxidil without ppg and with the least amount of alcool possible but who would still dry fast and absorb into the scalp to give good results ( i think i ried at least 15 different vehicle and brand but none give me results as good as the standard ppg ethanl water but i'm allergic to ppg) . do you have an idea what could i use seems you seem extremelly knowledgable on this topic ( can etgyoxydigliccol and dimethyl isosobide could be used?) tbh i'm lost as i'm way too low iq ... thanks

I personally don't use minoxidil at all.

Therefore, I don't have any experience with creating novel minoxidil formulations.

Ethyoxydiglycol is used in the CB patent.

Dimethyl isosorbide is used in a lot of novel transdermal/dermal formulations.

But they are used in small to moderate percentages. Meaning they are used as co-solvents/penetration enhancers.

They are not the sole vehicles of the formulation. So you still have to use things like ethanol, propylene glycol, etc.

However, you don't necessarily need propylene glycol to make minoxidil effective, propanediol can be a viable substitute but you've probably already tried that. And you said that you've already given trichsol a go..

Maybe you're using denatured ethanol, that's why you're scalp is getting irritated.

That's why I never use denatured ethanol in my formulations. It makes no sense to have additional denaturing agents (many of which are toxic) in your topical.

Try buying pure, non-denatured ethanol (which should contain only ethanol (95%+) and distilled water) and see if that helps.

 

[Carlo099]

If I can ask, what topicals do you use?

 

[-Synergy-]

Some say it’s not good to mix copper peptide and tretinoin together. I can’t remember why but it could be easily researched. I think there’s also a study that shows zinc decreasing minoxidil efficacy. I hope it works and wish I had the money to try something similar.

 

[-Synergy-]

man 'm sorry to other you again but i'm trying to find a decent vehcile for minoxidil without ppg and with the least amount of alcool possible but who would still dry fast and absorb into the scalp to give good results ( i think i ried at least 15 different vehicle and brand but none give me results as good as the standard ppg ethanl water but i'm allergic to ppg) . do you have an idea what could i use seems you seem extremelly knowledgable on this topic ( can etgyoxydigliccol and dimethyl isosobide could be used?) tbh i'm lost as i'm way too low iq ... thanks

PG Free Solvent

Glycerin + Ethanol Solvent

www.minoxidilmax.com

 

[Thor9]

Although peppermint oil has been shown to be beneficial, it does apparently decrease PGE2:

Peppermint Essential Oil: A Chemical Breakdown Of This Fragrant Oil

Do you feel nauseous, have joint pain, or sugar cravings? Learn about the chemical structure of peppermint and how it can help relieve your symptoms!

blog.nutririse.com

Since sandalore already increases IGF1, maybe it would be safer to drop the peppermint oil.

 

[-Synergy-]

What do you plan on using to emulsify the water/alcohol with the oils you are using? If the water and oil isn’t combined in stable emulsion for 24 hours you might get more or less of certain ingredients with each usage right?

 

[StayPositive]

I personally don't use minoxidil at all.

Therefore, I don't have any experience with creating novel minoxidil formulations.

Ethyoxydiglycol is used in the CB patent.

Dimethyl isosorbide is used in a lot of novel transdermal/dermal formulations.

But they are used in small to moderate percentages. Meaning they are used as co-solvents/penetration enhancers.

They are not the sole vehicles of the formulation. So you still have to use things like ethanol, propylene glycol, etc.

However, you don't necessarily need propylene glycol to make minoxidil effective, propanediol can be a viable substitute but you've probably already tried that. And you said that you've already given trichsol a go..

Maybe you're using denatured ethanol, that's why you're scalp is getting irritated.

That's why I never use denatured ethanol in my formulations. It makes no sense to have additional denaturing agents (many of which are toxic) in your topical.

Try buying pure, non-denatured ethanol (which should contain only ethanol (95%+) and distilled water) and see if that helps.

Where do you buy non denatured ethanol ? It's impossible to find

 

[Ascension]

I personally don't use minoxidil at all.

Therefore, I don't have any experience with creating novel minoxidil formulations.

Ethyoxydiglycol is used in the CB patent.

Dimethyl isosorbide is used in a lot of novel transdermal/dermal formulations.

But they are used in small to moderate percentages. Meaning they are used as co-solvents/penetration enhancers.

They are not the sole vehicles of the formulation. So you still have to use things like ethanol, propylene glycol, etc.

However, you don't necessarily need propylene glycol to make minoxidil effective, propanediol can be a viable substitute but you've probably already tried that. And you said that you've already given trichsol a go..

Maybe you're using denatured ethanol, that's why you're scalp is getting irritated.

That's why I never use denatured ethanol in my formulations. It makes no sense to have additional denaturing agents (many of which are toxic) in your topical.

Try buying pure, non-denatured ethanol (which should contain only ethanol (95%+) and distilled water) and see if that helps.

i use denatured ethanol 96% in my topicals and havent had any problems at once a day applications. Do you really think it takes such a massive effect to get non-denatured ethanol, only thing i would guess it does is irritate the skin a bit more but ethanol will anw do that.

 

[Thor9]

i use denatured ethanol 96% in my topicals and havent had any problems at once a day applications. Do you really think it takes such a massive effect to get non-denatured ethanol, only thing i would guess it does is irritate the skin a bit more but ethanol will anw do that.

You can't drink denatured alcohol...do you think its a good idea to put something on your skin which you cannot drink?

 

[feelsbad]

You can't drink denatured alcohol...do you think its a good idea to put something on your skin which you cannot drink?

Counterpoint: I also would not drink moisturizer, sunscreen, retin A, etc.