Thoughts on my 20 Ingredient Hair Loss Serum

MrKmass

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Hello,

I have tried a lot of products but I keep losing my hair. In addition, finasteride gives me side effects, even at low doses. Based on all of my research I plan to use most of the alternative treatments in one serum, I'd like to know what you think?

My serum consists of: Minoxidil / Sandalore / Melatonin / Cetirizine / Resveratrol / Valproic acid / Castor oil / Caffeine / Taurine / Cysteine / Adenosine / zinc sulfate / b6 p5p / Arginine / peppermint oil / rosemary oil / tretinoin / latanoprost / copper peptide.

All in a classic Ethanol / PG / Water mixture

I will continue the CB just on the hairline.

And I'm doing a trial with topical finasteride combined with hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin to reduce systemic absorption.

 

JaneyElizabeth

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Hello,

I have tried a lot of products but I keep losing my hair. In addition, finasteride gives me side effects, even at low doses. Based on all of my research I plan to use most of the alternative treatments in one serum, I'd like to know what you think?

My serum consists of: Minoxidil / Sandalore / Melatonin / Cetirizine / Resveratrol / Valproic acid / Castor oil / Caffeine / Taurine / Cysteine / Adenosine / zinc sulfate / b6 p5p / Arginine / peppermint oil / rosemary oil / tretinoin / latanoprost / copper peptide.

All in a classic Ethanol / PG / Water mixture

I will continue the CB just on the hairline.

And I'm doing a trial with topical finasteride combined with hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin to reduce systemic absorption.

Those might be effective individually and yet not be in a 20-something stack. I think after about three to five ingredients at most, you don't know if the ingredients are either synergistic or additive. It sounds like a lot of work but Min/castor oil/caffeine, tretinoin or adaptagel, latanoprost and copper peptides along with CB might work but probably I would keep CB, min, lantanoprost and tretinoin along with topical finasteride could all be additive in effect.
 
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MrKmass

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Those might be effective individual and not be in a 20-something stack. I think after about three to five ingredients at most, you don't know if the ingredients are either synergistic or additive. It sounds like a lot of work but Min/castor oil/caffing, tretinoin or adaptagel, latanoprost and copper peptides along with CB might work but probably I would keep CB, min, lantanoprost and tretinoin along with topical finasteride could all be additive in effect.
Maybe there are too many things that can hinder synergy, i'm agree. But I think besides what you said, cetirizine and melatonin are really important.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Maybe there are too many things that can hinder synergy, i'm agree. But I think besides what you said, cetirizine and melatonin are really important.
I have heard of people using those but it is a bit unclear about how they work. Will oral melatonin improve hair? The other is, what, a prostaglandin? One thing is whether the ingredient will work visibly by itself like maybe CB, RU, finasteride, finasteride and Keto and the other is resource allocation because some of these cost a fair amount. But guys fighting male pattern baldness are often highly motivated. It would be great to hear why you thing Cetirizine is up and coming as a hair loss med. Is it better than flush-full niacin?


Thanks,
Janey
 

MrKmass

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I have heard of people using those but it is a bit unclear about how they work. Will oral melatonin improve hair? The other is, what, a prostaglandin? One thing is whether the ingredient will work visibly by itself like maybe CB, RU, finasteride, finasteride and Keto and the other is resource allocation because some of these cost a fair amount. But guys fighting male pattern baldness are often highly motivated. It would be great to hear why you thing Cetirizine is up and coming as a hair loss med. Is it better than flush-full niacin?


Thanks,
Janey
I couldn't get the sources out for you but I have been browsing a lot on this forum and others and have seen positive experiences with topical cetirizine and topical melatonin. It is obviously not worth finasteride but all of these ingredients together could have an impact, however small. And like you say I'm motivated, I don't mind scooping up all these ingredients and making my own mixes. I also serve as a laboratory rat in a way, I could keep people informed with photos of the evolution of this serum.
 

whitecoatblackhat

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Good luck trying to fit all of this into 1 topical whilst still maintaining an efficacious dose of each API.

Not to mention that there are a lot of contradictory ingredients (polar/non-polar) in your serum that require different solvents, will degrade due to a presence of an unfavourable solvent or will simply cause more harm than good when mixed together (used concurrently).

Some examples from the top of my mind:

- Don't mix GHK-Cu and Retinol (acids in general).

- Don't use alcohol as a solvent or co-solvent for Cetirizine, it will degrade it exponentially faster.

- Adenosine (pure adenosine, not AMP, ADP, ATP) difficult to solubilise at efficacious doses even in UPW. You'll probably need to make a standalone topical only for the adenosine (max 1-2 more ingredients).

- Minoxidil will react with the ZnSO4 and will form a precipitate.

and more.

Verify these statements on your own volition.

I'm doing something similar to you, i.e. using over 25 compounds, but all of them are strategically separated into 4 different liquid topicals (high-priority), 1 topical cream (high priority), 1 shampoo (low priority) and 1 conditoner (low priority).

You're onto the right tracks, you just need to compartmentalize your APIs better and create 3-4-5 different topicals each containing non-conflicting, possibly synergistic compounds.

Don't forget that you'll also need a solubilizer and a preservative if you're mixing water + oil.

As you can see, there's a lot more to compounding than just throwing everything into one vial.

All the best
 

MrKmass

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Good luck trying to fit all of this into 1 topical whilst still maintaining an efficacious dose of each API.

Not to mention that there are a lot of contradictory ingredients (polar/non-polar) in your serum that require different solvents, will degrade due to a presence of an unfavourable solvent or will simply cause more harm than good when mixed together (used concurrently).

Some examples from the top of my mind:

- Don't mix GHK-Cu and Retinol (acids in general).

- Don't use alcohol as a solvent or co-solvent for Cetirizine, it will degrade it exponentially faster.

- Adenosine (pure adenosine, not AMP, ADP, ATP) difficult to solubilise at efficacious doses even in UPW. You'll probably need to make a standalone topical only for the adenosine (max 1-2 more ingredients).

- Minoxidil will react with the ZnSO4 and will form a precipitate.

and more.

Verify these statements on your own volition.

I'm doing something similar to you, i.e. using over 25 compounds, but all of them are strategically separated into 4 different liquid topicals (high-priority), 1 topical cream (high priority), 1 shampoo (low priority) and 1 conditoner (low priority).

You're onto the right tracks, you just need to compartmentalize your APIs better and create 3-4-5 different topicals each containing non-conflicting, possibly synergistic compounds.

Don't forget that you'll also need a solubilizer and a preservative if you're mixing water + oil.

As you can see, there's a lot more to compounding than just throwing everything into one vial.

All the best
Your post is amazing. Thank you very much for taking the time to write this. I intended to use this topical possibly which is already for sale by an independent: https://www.hairfollicleneogenesis.com/the-hair-follicle-neogenesis-growth-factors-serum/.
It already contains Minoxidil / Valproic acid / Sandalore / Adenosine / Castor oil / Cysteine / L-Carnitine L-Tartrate / Caffeine / Peppermint oil / Velvet deer antler / Cetirizine / Taurine / Rosemary oil / Tretinoin.

I wanted to add zinc sulfate powder / Arginine / B6 p5p / melatonin / resveratol / copper peptide / latanaprost to it and mix with a magnetic stirrer.

Can I speak to you in a private message about your diet and advice for mine?
 

feelsbad

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I'm doing something similar to you, i.e. using over 25 compounds, but all of them are strategically separated into 4 different liquid topicals (high-priority), 1 topical cream (high priority), 1 shampoo (low priority) and 1 conditoner (low priority).

You're onto the right tracks, you just need to compartmentalize your APIs better and create 3-4-5 different topicals each containing non-conflicting, possibly synergistic compounds.

Don't forget that you'll also need a solubilizer and a preservative if you're mixing water + oil.

As you can see, there's a lot more to compounding than just throwing everything into one vial.

All the best
Would you be able to tell us what you're using, and whether you've had any results?
 

Thor9

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Good luck trying to fit all of this into 1 topical whilst still maintaining an efficacious dose of each API.

Not to mention that there are a lot of contradictory ingredients (polar/non-polar) in your serum that require different solvents, will degrade due to a presence of an unfavourable solvent or will simply cause more harm than good when mixed together (used concurrently).

Some examples from the top of my mind:

- Don't mix GHK-Cu and Retinol (acids in general).

- Don't use alcohol as a solvent or co-solvent for Cetirizine, it will degrade it exponentially faster.

- Adenosine (pure adenosine, not AMP, ADP, ATP) difficult to solubilise at efficacious doses even in UPW. You'll probably need to make a standalone topical only for the adenosine (max 1-2 more ingredients).

- Minoxidil will react with the ZnSO4 and will form a precipitate.

and more.

Verify these statements on your own volition.

I'm doing something similar to you, i.e. using over 25 compounds, but all of them are strategically separated into 4 different liquid topicals (high-priority), 1 topical cream (high priority), 1 shampoo (low priority) and 1 conditoner (low priority).

You're onto the right tracks, you just need to compartmentalize your APIs better and create 3-4-5 different topicals each containing non-conflicting, possibly synergistic compounds.

Don't forget that you'll also need a solubilizer and a preservative if you're mixing water + oil.

As you can see, there's a lot more to compounding than just throwing everything into one vial.

All the best

How can we go about determining the compatibility of various ingredients? Solubility seems straightforward. What about polarity - do they all have to be the same, or should they be opposite? For pH, do they need to be similar?
 

StayPositive

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Hi, i am going to start a similar protocol : caffeine, l carnitine l tartrate, taurine, melatonin, zinc sulfate, setipiprant.

Maybe I will add dexpanthenol and etoricoxib later.

All topical of course
 
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whitecoatblackhat

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Would you be able to tell us what you're using, and whether you've had any results?

I recently changed quite a lot in my protocol. And I'm doing a lot of research to see how I'm gonna proceed.

But I can say for certain that I've had success with the following:

- ZnS04, P5P, Azelaic Acid in higher concentrations than the ones in the study.

- AHK-Cu

- Melatonin

- Ketoconazole (topical not shampoo)

- Adenosine (pure adenosine anhydrous, not AMP, ADP, ATP - I regularly see people confuse them with one another)

- Stemoxydine

- Taurine (to an extent)

- Caffeine (to an extent)

- Mentha Piperita (not as a hair loss treatment but as a permeation enhancer, and especially for the following terpenes: l-menthol, n-menthone, menthyl acetate)

- Rosmarinus Officinalis (not as a hair loss treatment but as a permeation enhancer, and especially for the following terpenes: 1,8 cineol, a-pinene, camphor)

Hope this helps.
 

whitecoatblackhat

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How can we go about determining the compatibility of various ingredients? Solubility seems straightforward. What about polarity - do they all have to be the same, or should they be opposite? For pH, do they need to be similar?

It's difficult to tell. It really depends on the APIs in question.

pH does need to be similar, though, if you want to lessen the degradation and increase the efficacy.

Some self-evident things to look out for are: the formation of a precipitate from a once clear, homogenous solution; cloudiness and/or a thermogenic reaction.

These are a clear indication that something is reacting in your solution.
 

feelsbad

Member
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I recently changed quite a lot in my protocol. And I'm doing a lot of research to see how I'm gonna proceed.

But I can say for certain that I've had success with the following:

- ZnS04, P5P, Azelaic Acid in higher concentrations than the ones in the study.

- AHK-Cu

- Melatonin

- Ketoconazole (topical not shampoo)

- Adenosine (pure adenosine anhydrous, not AMP, ADP, ATP - I regularly see people confuse them with one another)

- Stemoxydine

- Taurine (to an extent)

- Caffeine (to an extent)

- Mentha Piperita (not as a hair loss treatment but as a permeation enhancer, and especially for the following terpenes: l-menthol, n-menthone, menthyl acetate)

- Rosmarinus Officinalis (not as a hair loss treatment but as a permeation enhancer, and especially for the following terpenes: 1,8 cineol, a-pinene, camphor)

Hope this helps.
Very helpful, thank you.

I am currently using ZnS04 and P5P and I'm interested in adding melatonin, taurine, and peppermint essential oil.
Would you have any thoughts on which of these can be combined?
 

MrKmass

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35
I recently changed quite a lot in my protocol. And I'm doing a lot of research to see how I'm gonna proceed.

But I can say for certain that I've had success with the following:

- ZnS04, P5P, Azelaic Acid in higher concentrations than the ones in the study.

- AHK-Cu

- Melatonin

- Ketoconazole (topical not shampoo)

- Adenosine (pure adenosine anhydrous, not AMP, ADP, ATP - I regularly see people confuse them with one another)

- Stemoxydine

- Taurine (to an extent)

- Caffeine (to an extent)

- Mentha Piperita (not as a hair loss treatment but as a permeation enhancer, and especially for the following terpenes: l-menthol, n-menthone, menthyl acetate)

- Rosmarinus Officinalis (not as a hair loss treatment but as a permeation enhancer, and especially for the following terpenes: 1,8 cineol, a-pinene, camphor)

Hope this helps.
Thank you for your answer, it's very interesting. And how do you mix these ingredients? Which ones go with which?
 

whitecoatblackhat

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Very helpful, thank you.

I am currently using ZnS04 and P5P and I'm interested in adding melatonin, taurine, and peppermint essential oil.
Would you have any thoughts on which of these can be combined?

It should be fine to mix all of those together.

I can't see any reactions/displacement happening from the top of my head.

Though, it will probably be best to add Azelaic Acid to the ZnS04 + P5P. However, it could be difficult to solubilise the AA at efficacious dosages if you don't have any experience with compounding.

If you decide to go that route, pre-solubilising the AA in glycerol before adding it to your ethanol GREATLY improves its solubility.
But the glycerol needs to be at a high % in your formula (20-30%) which will leave a glossy residue on your scalp.
That's why reducing the glycerol but adding co-solvents like isododecane, ethoxy diglycol, dimethyl isosorbide, isopropyl myristate will create a much better formula, improve the dissolution kinetics of AA and will enhance the permeability of all AIs.

Edit: you'll also need a solubiliser/emulsifier of sorts if you are going to be combining menta EO with a water/ethanol-based solution. Things like polysorbate, peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil will work, or some lecithin (preferably sunflower).
 
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whitecoatblackhat

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Thank you for your answer, it's very interesting. And how do you mix these ingredients? Which ones go with which?

Don't mix AA with AHK-Cu/GHK-Cu

Stemox + Adenosine should be fine

I would personally avoid adenosine + caffeine (even though 1,2 studies have done that). Caffeine is a non-selective adenosine antagonist.

caffeine + taurine is fine

melatonin + caffeine doesn't make much sense together

The essential oils should be fine with all of the above-listed compounds
 

LouisSarkozy

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Don't mix AA with AHK-Cu/GHK-Cu

Stemox + Adenosine should be fine

I would personally avoid adenosine + caffeine (even though 1,2 studies have done that). Caffeine is a non-selective adenosine antagonist.

caffeine + taurine is fine

melatonin + caffeine doesn't make much sense together

The essential oils should be fine with all of the above-listed compounds
can i ask you what's your source for stemoxydine? what would be a good vehicle for cetirizine and you know how i could make a vehicle for topical minoxidil without using proplylene glycol but who would still dry fast and cause only mild irritation if that's even possible ? thanks you so much
 

whitecoatblackhat

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can i ask you what's your source for stemoxydine? what would be a good vehicle for cetirizine and you know how i could make a vehicle for topical minoxidil without using proplylene glycol but who would still dry fast and cause only mild irritation if that's even possible ? thanks you so much

I buy a lot of the substances that I'm using from certified EU labs through my business. They don't sell to individuals though, only to companies.

Which type of cetirizine - HCL, DiHCL or Levoceti?

Even though there shouldn't be a big difference, they do have different MWs.

Also, levoceti upregulates GSK-3b, ceti hcl/dihcl might also do the same. So pair it with a phospho-GSK-3beta agonist or some other type of GSK-3b antagonist.

Distilled water alone might be sufficient for ceti. I don't have experience with ceti, so I can't tell for certain. I've seen anecdotes in HairLossTalk.com stating that distilled water is sufficient.

For PG-free minoxidil, check trichosol.
 

StayPositive

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Don't mix AA with AHK-Cu/GHK-Cu

Stemox + Adenosine should be fine

I would personally avoid adenosine + caffeine (even though 1,2 studies have done that). Caffeine is a non-selective adenosine antagonist.

caffeine + taurine is fine

melatonin + caffeine doesn't make much sense together

The essential oils should be fine with all of the above-listed compounds
Melatonin + caffeine combo makes sense

Melatonin reduces cox2 expression while caffeine reduces cox2 protein. So it's very complementary.
 
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