The Cb (breezula [clascoterone]) Community Thread

John Difool

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No it wouldn't? You'd also have to prove that your compound was the same chemical purity as the one used by the actual company, and that you vehicle was the same.

If you can't even guarantee purity and using lower percent than the optimum one given by phase 2 then I don't even understand what are you trying to achieve.

I really don't think the vehicle would make a big differenceu but if it does we have the exact composition of the one in the patent so you could just use that.

So, what can we expect from Breezula?
Not much. Maybe maintenance for half a year then losing ground again. That stuff is so weak it will only work for the least aggressive cases. It may just be another Trinov.
 

Hair-pun

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Why would you assume this is upregulation rather then the difference of 20-30% more DHT in your system? I would assume you are just shocking your follicles with levels of hormones they havn't experienced in years.

The idea of upregulation from CB though is complete non-sense. If that were the case, kids using winlevi for acne would get subtle relief then destroy their skin. It feels like an idea thought up by people who know nothing about drug interactions or body chemistry but saw a chart that looks like a sine wave and thought there is no possible other reasonable explanation then hairloss getting worse (while ironically still being above baseline 1 year in).
Because I was on finasteride for 9 years, then switched to dutasteride for 3 months then switched back to finasteride. The hair fall in this period was unlike anything I have seen before during my time on finasteride and it left a hole in the centre of my hairline- in three months. Obviously in this 3 month period the hair became accustomed to less DHT then it made things much worse when I returned to finasteride.
When it’s your hair you know.
However, I think if you start using a more potent regimen it’s fine as long as you don’t stop it. Gradually over time the hair’s sensitivity catches up with the regimen and over powers it.
In time all regimens fail, it’s just about buying as much time as possible
 
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Hair-pun

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If you can't even guarantee purity and using lower percent than the optimum one given by phase 2 then I don't even understand what are you trying to achieve.

I really don't think the vehicle would make a big differenceu but if it does we have the exact composition of the one in the patent so you could just use that.


Not much. Maybe maintenance for half a year then losing ground again. That stuff is so weak it will only work for the least aggressive cases. It may just be another Trinov.
I agree maintenance on breezula is not going to be as strong as dutasteride/finasteride but it is a very useful adjunct treatment when even dutasteride doesn’t stop your hair loss. Granted I’m only a year in but it seems fine when used in combo with dutasteride to maintain the hair line- which is what both finasteride and dutasteride struggle to do
 

trialAcc

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If you can't even guarantee purity and using lower percent than the optimum one given by phase 2 then I don't even understand what are you trying to achieve.

I really don't think the vehicle would make a big differenceu but if it does we have the exact composition of the one in the patent so you could just use that.


Not much. Maybe maintenance for half a year then losing ground again. That stuff is so weak it will only work for the least aggressive cases. It may just be another Trinov.
You literally don't have a clue what you are talking about. The fact that you once again said "half a year" just shows you are just referencing the trial chart and have no further insight into the efficacy.
 

trialAcc

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Because I was on finasteride for 9 years, then switched to dutasteride for 3 months then switched back to finasteride. The hair fall in this period was unlike anything I have seen before during my time on finasteride and it left a hole in the centre of my hairline- in three months. Obviously in this 3 month period the hair became accustomed to less DHT then it made things much worse when I returned to finasteride.
When it’s your hair you know.
However, I think if you start using a more potent regimen it’s fine as long as you don’t stop it. Gradually over time the hair’s sensitivity catches up with the regimen and over powers it.
In time all regimens fail, it’s just about buying as much time as possible
Oh, I thought you went the other way around. Same thing happened to me when I started dutasteride. Got the doom shed and am riding it out after 6 years of finasteride. It's usually the shock from the increase in scalp T. Still not upregulation.
 

Hair-pun

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Oh, I thought you went the other way around. Same thing happened to me when I started dutasteride. Got the doom shed and am riding it out after 6 years of finasteride. It's usually the shock from the increase in scalp T. Still not upregulation.
I’ve researched the increase in scalp T quite thoroughly and honestly it’s just another theory. No one really knows if this happens and if it does lead to increased hair loss. Hair loss is a neglected medical issue with few studies.
Also no one knows for sure if up-regulation exists- I can only share my experience and offer my hypothesis to help others. It may well not be true but it’s my best guess. Something crazy happened when I switched back to finasteride from dutasteride and it seems logical to me that upregulation might be the culprit
 

trialAcc

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I’ve researched the increase in scalp T quite thoroughly and honestly it’s just another theory. No one really knows if this happens and if it does lead to increased hair loss. Hair loss is a neglected medical issue with few studies.
Also no one knows for sure if up-regulation exists- I can only share my experience and offer my hypothesis to help others. It may well not be true but it’s my best guess. Something crazy happened when I switched back to finasteride from dutasteride and it seems logical to me that upregulation might be the culprit
It's not really just a theory, androgens cause hairloss, T is an androgen with less binding affinity then DHT and thus can cause hairloss in those susceptible to androgenic alopecia. Upregulation is what is actually a theory, because it's never been observed in any of these drugs in any medical studies.
 

tgfbeta

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Hello, I am using the cb at 2% in stemoxydine, I have used finasteride and topical finasteride and with all of them I have a problem and it is pain in the testicles, I start with cold in the area and I notice that it goes wrong, and then pain and discomfort, how can be possible and what I can do
I was going to make a post myself because I have been experiencing the same thing, much to my dismay. I'm curious about your experience and others' who've used CB in the past or are still using it. This is my experience so far with CB.

For 2 weeks I've been using CB from science.bio. I've been mixing 50mg in the ethanol, PG, transcutol vehicle (1:1:1) according to the patent, and apply it once per day an hour before bed.

Although it's still very early, my scalp feels much better, the itchiness has stopped completely and shedding is very minimal after my 2nd week of application. The first few days there was no change at all as expected, but around the 4th or 5th day I noticed the itchiness subside. This is my first topical AA of any sort, so I was very pleased to suddenly not feel the almost constant urge to itch my scalp. For me, keto shampoo didn't really do much for it.

However, at the same time I began noticing side effects. I'm taking no other medications whatsoever, so I'm certain it's the CB causing these effects on my body.

Sexual sides:
The first thing I noticed was a very faint ache in my testicles. Although subtle at first, after 2 weeks it's become undeniable and makes me feel uncomfortable throughout the day. It's also affecting my left testicle primarily. Moreover, both my penis and scrotum look a bit off. When flaccid my penis looks constricted and smaller than usual, and the skin is more wrinkled; when erect, the circumference of my shaft looks narrower, maybe by 20%. These adverse visual changes are confirmed by a lack of sensitivity I feel when masturbating. It feels like my penis is a numb and rubbery. However, my libido is about the same and the actual quality of my orgasms have not changed.

Other sides:
What's more concerning to me has been some weird sensations in my muscles and the effects it may be having on my musculature. I have a good amount of muscle mass. I weigh 72 kg at 170 cm but my bf % is about 12% or 13%, so I'm fairly lean. I lift 4 days a week and rest in between. I know when my muscles are overtrained and it has happened in the past, so my routine reflects that. I also have good nutrition and get good sleep. I supplement with vitamins and amino acids as well. So here's the thing: around the same time I noticed the sexual sides, my left bicep strangely started tightening randomly while I was sitting at my computer. I tried stretching but it didn't really do anything. It would happen for a few hours, stop, then start again. It feels extremely weird. This was followed by spasming in my lats, on the left side too. I've had muscle spasms before, but this just felt wrong. Now, the worst sign for me was last night when I worked out my arms. It's like I couldn't get a proper pump. My biceps just didn't look as big as they normally do and my veins were not as vascular. I'd say that I didn't have as strong as a mind-muscle connection as I normally do. I was working out the muscles, but it felt like they weren't fully functioning, and I actually had to stop midway because my tendons were actually hurting, no joke. I have not experienced chest tightness like some people say they do on RU. Again, I'm certain it's CB causing this because it's the only anti-androgen I've ever used, and I've never felt this way before. It's not terrible, but it's enough to make me want to stop using it.

Positive effects:
My skin feels softer and smother.

Overall:
Honestly, either what I'm using is 1) not pure CB; 2) the vehicle I'm using causes CB to go systemic, or 3) the pharmacokinetics of CB (Clascoterone rapidly hydrolyizing into cortexolone upon contact with water) don't actually prevent systemic effects. This would mean that the side effect profile of CB should be milder, but similar to other topical anti-androgens. I'm going to drop my dosage to 3.33%, then 2.5%, then 1%, and will discontinue if these sides still persist on lower dosages. I'm a bit puzzled because the phase 2 trial tested 7.5% bid, which is 3 times my current dose, and they reported no adverse systemic effects. I apologize if I appear alarmist. This has been my experience so far, and it would be interesting if others have experienced something similar. Of course, I may be very sensitive to anti-androgenic medication. I almost forgot as well, but I have good hair, probably NW1 with high density (black hair, middle eastern). My side temples are very miniaturized though and I have retrograde alopecia (sides and nape are thin and sparse, but donor area is very thick). I started losing hair at 16 or 17 but it's been very, very slow. I've also had bloodwork done last october. I ordered the comprehensive finasteride panel by Evolve (it's MorePlatesMoreDate's clinic). My total T was ~650, DHT was actually in the lower half of the reference range.

I've also attached the 3rd party HPLC purity testing done by science.bio. Doesn't mean the product I'm using is pure, but this company seems way more legit than the other ones selling CB.
 

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Hair-pun

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I was going to make a post myself because I have been experiencing the same thing, much to my dismay. I'm curious about your experience and others' who've used CB in the past or are still using it. This is my experience so far with CB.

For 2 weeks I've been using CB from science.bio. I've been mixing 50mg in the ethanol, PG, transcutol vehicle (1:1:1) according to the patent, and apply it once per day an hour before bed.

Although it's still very early, my scalp feels much better, the itchiness has stopped completely and shedding is very minimal after my 2nd week of application. The first few days there was no change at all as expected, but around the 4th or 5th day I noticed the itchiness subside. This is my first topical AA of any sort, so I was very pleased to suddenly not feel the almost constant urge to itch my scalp. For me, keto shampoo didn't really do much for it.

However, at the same time I began noticing side effects. I'm taking no other medications whatsoever, so I'm certain it's the CB causing these effects on my body.

Sexual sides:
The first thing I noticed was a very faint ache in my testicles. Although subtle at first, after 2 weeks it's become undeniable and makes me feel uncomfortable throughout the day. It's also affecting my left testicle primarily. Moreover, both my penis and scrotum look a bit off. When flaccid my penis looks constricted and smaller than usual, and the skin is more wrinkled; when erect, the circumference of my shaft looks narrower, maybe by 20%. These adverse visual changes are confirmed by a lack of sensitivity I feel when masturbating. It feels like my penis is a numb and rubbery. However, my libido is about the same and the actual quality of my orgasms have not changed.

Other sides:
What's more concerning to me has been some weird sensations in my muscles and the effects it may be having on my musculature. I have a good amount of muscle mass. I weigh 72 kg at 170 cm but my bf % is about 12% or 13%, so I'm fairly lean. I lift 4 days a week and rest in between. I know when my muscles are overtrained and it has happened in the past, so my routine reflects that. I also have good nutrition and get good sleep. I supplement with vitamins and amino acids as well. So here's the thing: around the same time I noticed the sexual sides, my left bicep strangely started tightening randomly while I was sitting at my computer. I tried stretching but it didn't really do anything. It would happen for a few hours, stop, then start again. It feels extremely weird. This was followed by spasming in my lats, on the left side too. I've had muscle spasms before, but this just felt wrong. Now, the worst sign for me was last night when I worked out my arms. It's like I couldn't get a proper pump. My biceps just didn't look as big as they normally do and my veins were not as vascular. I'd say that I didn't have as strong as a mind-muscle connection as I normally do. I was working out the muscles, but it felt like they weren't fully functioning, and I actually had to stop midway because my tendons were actually hurting, no joke. I have not experienced chest tightness like some people say they do on RU. Again, I'm certain it's CB causing this because it's the only anti-androgen I've ever used, and I've never felt this way before. It's not terrible, but it's enough to make me want to stop using it.

Positive effects:
My skin feels softer and smother.

Overall:
Honestly, either what I'm using is 1) not pure CB; 2) the vehicle I'm using causes CB to go systemic, or 3) the pharmacokinetics of CB (Clascoterone rapidly hydrolyizing into cortexolone upon contact with water) don't actually prevent systemic effects. This would mean that the side effect profile of CB should be milder, but similar to other topical anti-androgens. I'm going to drop my dosage to 3.33%, then 2.5%, then 1%, and will discontinue if these sides still persist on lower dosages. I'm a bit puzzled because the phase 2 trial tested 7.5% bid, which is 3 times my current dose, and they reported no adverse systemic effects. I apologize if I appear alarmist. This has been my experience so far, and it would be interesting if others have experienced something similar. Of course, I may be very sensitive to anti-androgenic medication. I almost forgot as well, but I have good hair, probably NW1 with high density (black hair, middle eastern). My side temples are very miniaturized though and I have retrograde alopecia (sides and nape are thin and sparse, but donor area is very thick). I started losing hair at 16 or 17 but it's been very, very slow. I've also had bloodwork done last october. I ordered the comprehensive finasteride panel by Evolve (it's MorePlatesMoreDate's clinic). My total T was ~650, DHT was actually in the lower half of the reference range.

I've also attached the 3rd party HPLC purity testing done by science.bio. Doesn't mean the product I'm using is pure, but this company seems way more legit than the other ones selling CB.
Hey, just checked science bio as I’m interested in changing my CB supplier. They are very expensive- almost double Wuhan/ Kane. Do you feel it’s worth it? I agree that they seem the most professional of all the suppliers I’ve seen.
Also, where are you buying transcutal?
As to the side effects.. I have felt no sides. I think only a tiny amount can go systemic through transdermal absorption- though I am no expert on this.
I think also consider psychosomatic side effects. Can feel very real- I had no idea until I got ‘heart palpitations’ from oral minoxidil and ‘chest tightness’ from RU. Both were imagined- probably just indigestion. The mind can be very powerful!
 

tgfbeta

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Hey, just checked science bio as I’m interested in changing my CB supplier. They are very expensive- almost double Wuhan/ Kane. Do you feel it’s worth it? I agree that they seem the most professional of all the suppliers I’ve seen.
Also, where are you buying transcutal?
As to the side effects.. I have felt no sides. I think only a tiny amount can go systemic through transdermal absorption- though I am no expert on this.
I think also consider psychosomatic side effects. Can feel very real- I had no idea until I got ‘heart palpitations’ from oral minoxidil and ‘chest tightness’ from RU. Both were imagined- probably just indigestion. The mind can be very powerful!
Hey Hair-pun,
I do think they're the safest option, otherwise I wouldn't have ordered from them in the first place. For the transcutol, I use a high purity Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether (>99.7%), which is the same thing as Transcutol. It needs to have a very high purity, otherwise it's not safe for topical use. I ordered it from grntecinc on ebay.

Yeah I get it, I'm fully aware that it could partially be psychosomatic, particularly the feeling in my muscles. However the ball ache is not imagined, I promise you haha. What's your dosage protocol currently?
 

tgfbeta

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Doesn’t CB lose efficacy after 7 months tho?
According to the data, yes, but the explanations presented so far are not very sound (i.e. AR upregulation, HPA axis shutdown, etc.). Honestly, it could be a mistake in the presentation of the data, but that's extremely unlikely. The only way to see would be to compare anecdotal experiences of longterm users with the cassiopea data.
 

Hair-pun

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Hey Hair-pun,
I do think they're the safest option, otherwise I wouldn't have ordered from them in the first place. For the transcutol, I use a high purity Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether (>99.7%), which is the same thing as Transcutol. It needs to have a very high purity, otherwise it's not safe for topical use. I ordered it from grntecinc on ebay.

Yeah I get it, I'm fully aware that it could partially be psychosomatic, particularly the feeling in my muscles. However the ball ache is not imagined, I promise you haha. What's your dosage protocol currently?
Ah yes, I’m sure there could be side effects- certainly not doubting you when you say this. We all react differently to these drugs. I hope they subside when you find the right dosage. Thanks for the tip off about transcutal. Think I may start with the alcohol/pg/ transcutal vehicle at some point.
Currently I’m using 60mg CB and 20mg RU mixed into 1.75ml alfratradiol (pantostin) once a day after showering. I also use stemox as a vehicle. Both vehicles seem similar to me. I’m pleased I made the jump on to CB tbh. I thought it was game over when dutasteride didn’t fix it but in combo with cb my hair fall has reduced significantly. Unsure how long this will last but will enjoy it while it does!
I would recommend that you stick with it and tinker with your dosage until you find a dosage that works for you. I have done this a few times and I’m happy with mine for now. Give me a shout if you need any more info, I’m no expert but keen to help if I can. Hope it goes well!
 

trialAcc

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According to the data, yes, but the explanations presented so far are not very sound (i.e. AR upregulation, HPA axis shutdown, etc.). Honestly, it could be a mistake in the presentation of the data, but that's extremely unlikely. The only way to see would be to compare anecdotal experiences of longterm users with the cassiopea data.
The data doesn't indicate it loses it's effectiveness after 7 months, it's still above baseline and well above vehicle after 12 months. The only thing that we can infer from the data is that it wasn't able to maintain growth or potentially fully stabilize loss within 12 months. There is absolutely 0 evidence for AR upregulation, just uneducated guesses because the gains disappeared. This drug also wasn't developed as a growth product, so the only thing we should care about is being above vehicle and baseline longer then 1 year, which, of course we don't know because the study ended.

If it lost effectiveness or sped up hair loss (AR upregulation), then the 12 month results would be equal to or less then vehicle. Instead, it was 9% (or whatever) above vehicle while still being above baseline.
 

John Difool

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You literally don't have a clue what you are talking about. The fact that you once again said "half a year" just shows you are just referencing the trial chart and have no further insight into the efficacy.
Fair enough. Only time will tell. Good luck, friend.
 

nick123

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I've seen a few people mention that your CB solution should be kept in the fridge? Is there any reason to this?
 

tgfbeta

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Does anybody have a possible explanation as to why some people have experienced anti-androgenic sides on CB (assuming it's legit)? Could it be the vehicle causing too much penetration? Maybe the Transcutol? I also didn't emulsify with Polysorbate 80 and ascorbyl palmitate, so maybe adding those steps to make a more lipophilic solution are vital to achieve a more localized drug delivery effect? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
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