You could just use stemox. That’s what I’m gonna do. Has been a great vehicle for other things I’ve used in the past. You can get that here in the US on amazon.
Short Info On My Cb Experience (in One Place)
- Thread starter hilbert
- Start date
there have not been any studies on wounding + cb yet , so i cant link anything , but cb is supposed to metabolise to cortexolone ( from cassiopea " Winlevi® (Clascoterone) is metabolized quickly to cortexolone, a physiological component of the body’s endogenous pool of corticosteroids, thus attaining high local activity without having any systemic effects ")
I couldnt find info about what cortexolone does , but some polish guys complained about corticosteroid side effects ,
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I'm about to order there as well. They are quite pricey it seems. Could you tell me the price you were quoted? Best I got was $430,- for 5 gram.
450 was what I paid.
Also if anyone needs to know you can buy transcutol from lotioncrafters but it's going to be called Ethoxydiglycol..
If you Google it it's the same thing.
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I agree. When I get my CB I'll drop finasteride and just see what happens.
Thanks man. I thought about it, but neogenic is f*****g expensive as f***. People complain about paying for CB but then pay for neogenic which is like insane to me.
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I've seen other people link this which also contains stemox https://www.ebay.com/itm/Garnier-Fr...pack-of-Grow-Strong-Serum-84-mL-/182341385579
Yes, its basically the same ingredients. Garnier is just a cheaper brand of L‘oreal, while Vichy is the luxury brand. In Germany it only costs 19€ for 6x80ml, so it‘s actually really cheap to use as a vehicle.
Oh f*** me. Yeah I just googled neogenic and Vichy came up. And I was like NOPE!
I'll probably buy this. I wonder what would happen if I mixed like, all of it as a vehicle haha? Is that a dumb idea?
PG Trans Ethanol Stemox
How dumb is this idea? (lol)
Actually having a harder time finding this in the U.S. than I did transcutol right now.
Europe so much better. I need to move.
I want to know how people feel about this.
If you wanted to match the trial solution as close as possiuble.
https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3108879A1
That is the patent. And this is what they were using as a vehicle for the trials according to it.
The formulation described in Example 4 was studied in a clinical trial to evaluate its pharmacokinetic profile, safety, and tolerability.
Example 4: Anhydrous 5% w/w Solution
[0152] - A 5 weight percent (w/w) solution of cortexolone-17α-propionate having the components shown in Table 4, below, was prepared by solubilizing the therapeutic agent in the mixture of solvents followed by the addition of the antioxidant (ascorbyl palmitate) and the emulsifier (polysorbate 80).
Table 4
Component Amount (g/100 g) Amount (Kg/ 15 Kg batch)
Cortexolone-17α-propionate 5.00 0.75
Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether 31.50 4.725
Alcohol (Ethanol) 31.50 4.725
Ascorbyl palmitate 0.50 0.075
Polysorbate 80 0.10 0.015
Propylene glycol 31.40 g 4.710
So essentially
Propylene glycol = PG,
Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether = Transcutol,
Alcohol (Ethanol) = Ethanol
They added a few other things, which I'm debating doing. But I'm not sure how it will mix. This solution is mixed for 5%, so I guess you could cut it down to 2.5% for daily application twice a day which was relatively effective from the Breezula trials. Anhydrous solution means it lacked water and from what I read water made effectiveness lower. It's somewhere in that patent. (see next post)
I want to see what Ascorbyl palmitate (antioxidant) and Polysorbate 80 (emulsifier) do for the solution, as in, if they are necessary or you can just use PG/Eth/Trans. I wanted to try to emulate what they did as close as possible.
What do you guys think, am I being pedantic?
If you wanted to match the trial solution as close as possiuble.
https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3108879A1
That is the patent. And this is what they were using as a vehicle for the trials according to it.
The formulation described in Example 4 was studied in a clinical trial to evaluate its pharmacokinetic profile, safety, and tolerability.
Example 4: Anhydrous 5% w/w Solution
[0152] - A 5 weight percent (w/w) solution of cortexolone-17α-propionate having the components shown in Table 4, below, was prepared by solubilizing the therapeutic agent in the mixture of solvents followed by the addition of the antioxidant (ascorbyl palmitate) and the emulsifier (polysorbate 80).
Table 4
Component Amount (g/100 g) Amount (Kg/ 15 Kg batch)
Cortexolone-17α-propionate 5.00 0.75
Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether 31.50 4.725
Alcohol (Ethanol) 31.50 4.725
Ascorbyl palmitate 0.50 0.075
Polysorbate 80 0.10 0.015
Propylene glycol 31.40 g 4.710
So essentially
Propylene glycol = PG,
Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether = Transcutol,
Alcohol (Ethanol) = Ethanol
They added a few other things, which I'm debating doing. But I'm not sure how it will mix. This solution is mixed for 5%, so I guess you could cut it down to 2.5% for daily application twice a day which was relatively effective from the Breezula trials. Anhydrous solution means it lacked water and from what I read water made effectiveness lower. It's somewhere in that patent. (see next post)
I want to see what Ascorbyl palmitate (antioxidant) and Polysorbate 80 (emulsifier) do for the solution, as in, if they are necessary or you can just use PG/Eth/Trans. I wanted to try to emulate what they did as close as possible.
What do you guys think, am I being pedantic?
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- Concentration of the active agent in the receiver fluid was measured next using a system largely identical to the system in Example 6. 3 human donor skin samples were used and the permeation, expressed as Cumulative Permeated amount (µg/cm2), is shown in Table 12. This experiment compared the anhydrous solution of Example 4 and the aqueous solutions of Example 5. Each contained the same amount of cortexolone-17α-propionate (5%).
- Table 12
Time [h] Anhydrous solution of Ex. 4 Aqueous solution of Ex. 5
5 0.862 0.94
7 2.75 1.36
9 6.36 1.97
24 38.1 12.5
26 45.7 14.9
28 55.7 19.6 - [0163]
As is evident from the data in Table 12, water in the formulation can reduce cortexalone-17α-propionate's penetration into the skin.
Making an assumption that Ascorbyl Palminate is added for skincare when the ethanol vehicle is harsh on the skin based on this:
http://bioforextra.com/en/the-role-of-antioxidants-in-cosmetic-formulations/
Polysorbate 80 is for:
In cosmetics, an emulsifier includes any ingredient that helps keep unlike ingredients (such as oil and water) from separating in an emulsion. Examples of cosmetics ingredients that function as emulsifiers include polysorbates, laureth-4, and potassium cetyl sulfate.
Emulsifiers are widely used throughout the cosmetics industry and are the unsung heroes of many cosmetics formulas that blend and help to keep unlike ingredients together. There is also research showing they can help enhance the absorption of skincare ingredients and may be useful for prolonged topical delivery.
...maybe you all knew this but I didn't
http://bioforextra.com/en/the-role-of-antioxidants-in-cosmetic-formulations/
Polysorbate 80 is for:
In cosmetics, an emulsifier includes any ingredient that helps keep unlike ingredients (such as oil and water) from separating in an emulsion. Examples of cosmetics ingredients that function as emulsifiers include polysorbates, laureth-4, and potassium cetyl sulfate.
Emulsifiers are widely used throughout the cosmetics industry and are the unsung heroes of many cosmetics formulas that blend and help to keep unlike ingredients together. There is also research showing they can help enhance the absorption of skincare ingredients and may be useful for prolonged topical delivery.
...maybe you all knew this but I didn't
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People on here have reported success with varying vehicles, so I think it probably does not matter that much. It might be the case that the official formulation is slightly more effective.
Personally I am going to try both the formulation of the first post and a mix with stemox.
I feel ya. I'm probably just being too intense about it. I want to make sure this sh*t works haha!
If I remember correctly most people used in CB in lower quantities - something like 20mg once a day.
Some guys had their deliveries seized by the customs and at least one guy had his delivery destroyed (CB was tested and they found out that it's a steroid which is illegal to import without permission). The good thing is that another package was sent and it reached the destination.
It was organized by one user who sourced it directly from China.
I have a question about the ethanol in the solution. Is rectified spirit (ethanol 95%) ok or it should be something closer to 100%?
I also found this quite interesting. Do you guys think the PGD2 is lower because of the AR being blocked by CB? And that the PGD2 is actually responsible for hair loss? Because if that was true, it would basically confirm the Prostaglandin Hypothesis (and also that Setipiprant or Fevipiprant could actually work
)Or do you think there is another mechanism that makes CB lower the PGD2 in your scalp (unrelated to its antisndrogen activity)?
I also found this quite interesting. Do you guys think the PGD2 is lower because of the AR being blocked by CB? And that the PGD2 is actually responsible for hair loss? Because if that was true, it would basically confirm the Prostaglandin Hypothesis (and also that Setipiprant or Fevipiprant could actually work
Or do you think there is another mechanism that makes CB lower the PGD2 in your scalp (unrelated to its antisndrogen activity)?
Because if the first was true we would know 2 things:
1.) DHT binding to the AR leads to higher PGD2-Synthase, which leads to higher PGD2 concentration in your scalp
2.) high PGD2 concentration can inhibit hair growth, described by in a study by luis garza
However, we dont know if DHT triggers more negative pathways that increase hair loss.
As you can see I am a strong believer in a combined therapy, haha
I would love to use Cb together with Seti- or Fevipirant.Because if the first was true we would know 2 things:
1.) DHT binding to the AR leads to higher PGD2-Synthase, which leads to higher PGD2 concentration in your scalp
2.) high PGD2 concentration can inhibit hair growth, described by in a study by luis garza
However, we dont know if DHT triggers more negative pathways that increase hair loss.
As you can see I am a strong believer in a combined therapy, haha
Honestly, me too. Providing safety reports are all good. I would get some extra sinus relief from Seti or Fevi also. So it'd be a win win.