Published in Nature: Weekly treatment with SAMiRNA targeting the androgen receptor ameliorates androgenetic alopecia

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

There's no such thing as "manteinence drug" anyway. It works on a pathway, and some people might respond better than others, that's it. If its "mantaining" for most people its basically because it's not too strong on its pathway.

It might have great synergistic effect on other drugs though. Look at microneedling... as a monotherapy it sucks but with minoxidil its the best growth agonist we have.

This seems wrong. The "DHT pathway" is a maintenance pathway. If you inhibit 100% DHT (eg. castrate them) then that will halt hairloss and strengthen any hairs that are still within a certain threshold of miniaturisation, but it won't regrow lost hair.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

What? Im talking about reversing minituarization not follicular neogenesis which is almost impossible with any drug at all.
How does all studies on finasteride/dutasteride monotherapy increase their target area count then?

Since when "the DHT pathway" is a "manteinence pathway", can you provide any scientific proof about it.

 

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

What? Im talking about reversing minituarization not follicular neogenesis which is almost impossible with any drug at all.
How does all studies on finasteride/dutasteride monotherapy increase their target area count then?

Since when "the DHT pathway" is a "manteinence pathway", can you provide any scientific proof about it.

View attachment 180769

There is a study which shows that once hairs have passed a certain threshold of miniaturisation, they continued to shrink even after starting finasteride. Finasteride can only recover hairs which aren't too damaged. (I am unable to search for the study again because there's simply too many to go through.) That's what I mean by 'maintenance'. Finasteride can only maintain the hairs you have, and which aren't too damaged.

If you want proof that halting DHT is a maintenance pathway, check out this study: "EFFECT OF CASTRATION IN ADOLESCENT AND YOUNG ADULT MALES UPON FURTHER CHANGES IN THE PROPORTIONS OF BARE AND HAIRY SCALP"

 

[Armando Jose]

If you want proof that halting DHT is a maintenance pathway, check out this study: "EFFECT OF CASTRATION IN ADOLESCENT AND YOUNG ADULT MALES UPON FURTHER CHANGES IN THE PROPORTIONS OF BARE AND HAIRY SCALP"

The Hamilton's study needs take in account with a picth of salt due important androgens for hair are synthetized in the pilosebaceous unit, not in adrenals.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

last AMA with Prof Sinclair of the HMI-115 trial they asked him about the theory of "point of no return hair" and he says there's no evidence for it fwiw.

Also keep in mind that literally every metanalysis of finasteride/dutasteride a good % of people do regrow hair and this is a fact

 

[coolio]

No hair is "gone forever" but the odds of recovery get pretty bad after a while. That's why this forum exists. Fighting baldness is not as easy as taking Finsateride for a few years and cranking all your follicles back to teenage Norwood#1 status.

 

[Ralph Wiggum]

I don't think this has been mentioned here yet:

Author Correction: Weekly treatment with SAMiRNA targeting the androgen receptor ameliorates androgenetic alopecia - Scientific Reports

www.nature.com

Correction to: Scientific Reports https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-022-05544-w, published online 31 January 2022

The original version of this Article contained errors.

In the Abstract,

“In the high-dose (5 mg/ml) clinical study, AR68 was given once per week for 24 weeks and showed 83% efficacy in increasing hair counts compared with finasteride.”

Now reads:

“In the 24-week long high-dose (5 mg/ml) clinical study, AR68 showed average additional hair growth of 1.3–1.9 hairs/cm2 per month, which is comparable to finasteride.”

In the Discussion section,

“In comparison with the clinical trial of daily oral administration of 1 mg finasteride for a 24-week period45,46,47, high-dose AR68 treatment per week caused 83% improvement in hair loss. Although the efficacy did not reach that of finasteride, AR68 has no adverse effects and is more convenient as a weekly treatment. This study has limitations in a number of subjects and a spectrum of races. For further studies, we will test lower frequencies treatment through clinical studies with more subjects to determine the best dose and frequency. In further studies, we will analyze androgen levels in FPHL to determine the relationship between the efficacy of AR68 and androgen levels. We also plan to perform a clinical study with Caucasian subjects with a higher Androgenetic Alopecia incidence.”

 

[ComeBackTemples]

When and where to buy? Anyone knows price?

 

[badnewsbearer]

I just came across this new study too.

At 24 weeks the high dose (5mg/ml) AR68 maintained just above baseline in both hair density and total hair count, the pictures in my opinion are not massively impressive but technically it did maintain at 24 weeks.

View attachment 175612
View attachment 175613

The most interesting thing for me here actually is that they label AR68 as a COSMETIC.

"For the development of Androgenetic Alopecia treatment using AR68, AR68 (Cosmerna-68) is listed as a cosmetic ingredient in cosmetic ingredients (ICID) and the Cosmetic Ingredient Dictionary, which are reviewed by the PCPC (Personal Care Products Council) and KCA (Korea Cosmetic Association), respectively. The stability of AR68 nanoparticles in a hair tonic formulation containing cosmetic ingredients was studied by measuring the size of AR68 nanoparticles that remained stable for more than six months."

A cosmetic potentially means that it can skip the long clinical trial process and we can get our hands on it sooner rather than later.

This is just an assumption but since this decreases the expression of AR mRNA and protein levels, I feel like this treatment won't massively plateau like other drugs that target the AR such as androgen receptor antagonists (Breezula)..

It appears they may be trying to enter the US market as a cosmetic:

"Aside from Bioneer’s progress within the domestic and the European markets for hair loss prevention, siRNAgen is preparing for the U.S. market entrance of CosmeRNA as a hair loss treatment. The existing mechanism, its safety and efficacy shown through human clinical trials were presented during the conference and received many attention from participating companies and investors. The siRNAgen plans to further improve the product profile for the U.S. market in particular, as the product will be developed beyond cosmeceutical use."

Product website:

siRNAgen Therapeutics Corp. (주)써나젠테라퓨틱스

siRNAgen Therapeutics Corporation is a next-genertion RNAi drug discovery company with SAMiRNA™ (Self-Assembled micellar inhibitory RNA) platform.

www.sirnagen.com

Sources:

siRNAgen Therapeutics | SAMiRNA Platform

siRNAgen Therapeutics is changing the treatment paradigm for patients suffering from chronic immunology and CNS conditions with RNAi therapies

www.sirnagen.com

siRNAgen Therapeutics Corp. (주)써나젠테라퓨틱스

siRNAgen Therapeutics Corporation is a next-genertion RNAi drug discovery company with SAMiRNA™ (Self-Assembled micellar inhibitory RNA) platform.

www.sirnagen.com

Weekly treatment with SAMiRNA targeting the androgen receptor ameliorates androgenetic alopecia - Scientific Reports

Androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) is the most common type of hair loss in men and women. Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and androgen receptor (AR) levels are increased in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia, and DHT-AR signaling correlates strongly with Androgenetic Alopecia pathogenesis. In this study, treatment with self-assembled micelle...

www.nature.com

Table 5 Descriptive statistical analysis of hair density (a) and total hair counts (b) between time points in clinical study II.

www.nature.com

the problem with this just like with the Kintor study is patient selection. when ever you have a patient placebo group that literally has no hair loss progression after 6 months you can pretty much guarantee that the average young balding man will not respond to this. if I apply no treatment for 6 months the change is extremely severe, these guys probably have very slow hair loss. I went from NW3 to NW5 within a year after stopping finasteride(not like I gained ground on finasteride either)

 

[badnewsbearer]

My concern is that it will be pricey considering the whole "game changer" narrative and the fancy design would be another sign for that. My guess would be 100 - 200€ for a bottle that would last 1 month (for whole scalp coverage).

and who would buy that? people who maintain on finasteride which is more effective? if this is for the 20% that cant tolerate finasteride say 5% of that would spend this amount of money, thats not a lot of profit actually. with this little data there is no way they could afford to charge such a price, people are not retarded

 

[Dr sanches]

the problem with this just like with the Kintor study is patient selection. when ever you have a patient placebo group that literally has no hair loss progression after 6 months you can pretty much guarantee that the average young balding man will not respond to this. if I apply no treatment for 6 months the change is extremely severe, these guys probably have very slow hair loss. I went from NW3 to NW5 within a year after stopping finasteride(not like I gained ground on finasteride either)

I’m gonna be honest I completely agree with this statement they need to have a wild variety of patients people with aggressive balding who see results and maintain would mean that basically everyone will do well

 

[pegasus2]

the problem with this just like with the Kintor study is patient selection. when ever you have a patient placebo group that literally has no hair loss progression after 6 months you can pretty much guarantee that the average young balding man will not respond to this. if I apply no treatment for 6 months the change is extremely severe, these guys probably have very slow hair loss. I went from NW3 to NW5 within a year after stopping finasteride(not like I gained ground on finasteride either)

They are east Asian. They bald slowly and respond extremely well to any treatment. This particular company claims to have a new type of siRNA. I don't know anything about it, but it does set off alarm bells. It seems scammy.

 

[badnewsbearer]

at least I know it won't work for me. without treatment I can legit see the difference within 4 weeks a drastic deterioration. I cannot imagine being stable or actually having higher hair count at any point in the future (just like the Kintor trial, they probably pick men that are basically semi stable and bald so slow they would actually be able to get a transplant and be fine meanwhile others lose 2NW per year until they are NW7 at 27)

 

[pegasus2]

at least I know it won't work for me. without treatment I can legit see the difference within 4 weeks a drastic deterioration. I cannot imagine being stable or actually having higher hair count at any point in the future (just like the Kintor trial, they probably pick men that are basically semi stable and bald so slow they would actually be able to get a transplant and be fine meanwhile others lose 2NW per year until they are NW7 at 27)

You're probably right. In Kintor's case it's supposed to be around 3-4x more potent than RU58841, but due to the metabolism of the two drugs RU can be dosed much 10x higher without systemic accumulation, making it effectively more potent than pyrilutamide.

 

[bridge945]

the problem with this just like with the Kintor study is patient selection. when ever you have a patient placebo group that literally has no hair loss progression after 6 months you can pretty much guarantee that the average young balding man will not respond to this. if I apply no treatment for 6 months the change is extremely severe, these guys probably have very slow hair loss. I went from NW3 to NW5 within a year after stopping finasteride(not like I gained ground on finasteride either)

minoxidil studies have high placebo count also. It’s common with topicals

 

[Dr sanches]

Cosma rna sucks same with kintor . 1 year to show shitty results on stabilized Asian men and cosma rna sucks Asian men stabilized again reacting they are basically equivalent to mice

 

[Dolph]

> 1.3–1.9 hairs/cm2 per month

Garbage result. That explains the photos.

 

[Dr sanches]

> 1.3–1.9 hairs/cm2 per month

Garbage result. That explains the photos.

Yeah the photos were dogshit

 

[norwood_spotter]

when will propeciahelp users report first sideeffect on samirna?

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

We can never know the synergistic effects of any drug. Having more pathways is always useful. For example microneedling monotherapy is even worse than this and look what happens when you pair it up.

I think the fact you only have to apply once a week with no side effects literally everyone will use it, if it *might* help and commitment is minimal why not.