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Proxiphen(-N) a scam?

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by bcapop, Dec 19, 2007.

  1. pippo24

    pippo24 Member

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    I know it-if you mix them together in one solution you´ll get stability probs. and they won´t work perfectly anymore.
    Im very surprised that nearly nobody here is using topical flut.
    it´s great stuff!I know you are affraid of syst. absorbtion.
    But if you use 20mg topicaly then the total sys. absorbed amount is so tiny it will not cause any probs!And its halflife is only 5h.
    (to compare the oral dose for cancer or switching your gender is 750mg a day)
    In europe many people use it and i never heard of anybody who had probs with it.
    You just have to limitate the amount on your scalp.
    For me its 1 ml of 2%Flut mixed up in spironolactone once a day.But there are people who use it twice a day and may be 3ml per aplication.So they use 120mg a day and that may cause probs for sure.
     
  2. Old Baldy

    Old Baldy Senior Member

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    Good luck Pippo. I don't have near the ability to encapsulate stuff into ethosomes, etc. Is it necessary to have the active ingredients encapsulated or will it suffice to have the stuff just mixed with the "nanosome" type of base?

    Thanks for any info.

    Also, give us recipes! I love tinkering with that type of thing. Especially in the winter when I can't garden, play golf, etc. (I can still shoot my guns though!! :) )

    Does the flutamide mixed with spironolactone. get stinky? I ask this because I've never read of any interactions between those two drugs? That's oral usage though.

    Viper: It always amazes me that some stuff works for some people and doesn't work for others. Actually pisses me off to tell you the truth. But I guess that's all part of evolution? We can't all be the same or we'd "stagnate"?

    Finally, Bryan ain't Doctor Proctor. And if you point out an error about something he says, he's the first to admit it. Honest, upstanding guy with alot of knowledge. A little bit "crusty" but a decent guy IMHO. :)
     
  3. Old Baldy

    Old Baldy Senior Member

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    Bryan: I've always been curious why you haven't latched onto bayberry extract. As you know, an in vivo study showed it lowered scalp DHT by 39 percent. That's pretty strong and should help. (I mean, how much do we have to lower the effects of androgens to "thwart" the effect of dht, etc.?)

    As a test, I went without my spironolactone. and bayberry mix for a few months a while back and only took two dutasteride. capsules a week.

    I then added back the spironolactone. concoction I make (along with bayberry extract over the top of that stuff fairly regularly) and, in a couple of months, I noticed my hair was MUCH more healthy looking and the crown was growing in around the edges and becoming smaller.

    I did this when I started taking dutasteride. orally twice a week. I wanted to see if dutasteride. could do it all. (It couldn't for me, the same as finasteride didn't "do it all" for me.)

    Those three concoctions (i.e., dutasteride. internal at twice a week, the spironolactone. homemade concoction I discussed previously and bayberry extract) act synergistically(sp?) for me. Plus, the stuff is cosmetically acceptable for me because I have dark hair.

    Why have you stayed away from bayberry extract? The only in vivo tested herbal that diminishes the effects of androgens (i.e., that I know of).

    Plus, it has some antioxidant effect from what I've read about bayberry extract in general. (It's an old herb used for centuries and is safe, probably healthy?)

    In fact, I've always been curious why bayberry extract hasn't become poplular for a homemade concoction that will diminish the effects of androgens?
     
  4. bcapop

    bcapop Established Member

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    You Proxiphen believers are too afraid to look at the facts. And Bryan this, Bryan that...look at ALL the posts about Proxiphen (Hairsite, Baldspot, HairLossTalk.com etc.) from not only Bryan. There are far more negative posts than positive. Well if Proxiphen indeed would grow significant more hair than any other agent and Finasteride has ~90% succes rate, Proxiphen would come close to a 100%. IF you believe what Proctor writes on his website. But it isn't so yes it's a scam, rip off, whatever somebody calls it.

    Without PR? LOL, now your just lying. You should read his website and his (latest) posts more.

    And no improvement lately? Wat about Fred and his topical? Elsom Research? Sinere? etc. Now you're lying again or you just don't know. Read my other post about Nanoadeno. Nobody comments on that, because they know I'm right.
     
  5. bcapop

    bcapop Established Member

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    A lot of people are using Bayberry including me. Baldspot is full of posts with Bayberry.
     
  6. Old Baldy

    Old Baldy Senior Member

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    Good, because I don't hear much about it anymore.

    It was the first anti-androgen chemical I ever used.

    Oh, I do use homemade herbals, always have and always will. I'm a total wacko when it comes to herbals! Heated oil extractions, alcohol extractions, boiling water extractions, etc. And bayberry is in all of them BC!! :)

    I have one heated oil extraction concoction I call "Everything". :crazy: Does it help, I have no idea but it was fun to make and it hasn't hurt any from what I can tell over the years.

    Yes, I'm an herbal wacko!
     
  7. Jacobo

    Jacobo Established Member

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    Good for you.

    Dr Proctor is phisician and Phd. So you are...? How many years have you been researching hairloss? Where are your patents? Your experience? Your published research? Your credentials?. Why do I have to believe you?

    About Proctor pricing: For me it is fair. I would even pay more.
     
  8. pippo24

    pippo24 Member

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    So as I said I have someone who really is one of the few left gentelmen and helpfull persons in nowadays cold world. :sobbing:
    He is the one of us who has really superior knowledge.-I think from time to time I have a good idea too :mrgreen:
    Its not that easy to get stuff in ethosomes...but its worth the work i.m.o.
    Concerning flut and spironolactone they will stay stable some days in the same solution ,but then it may give probs. so its better to mix them up right before or maybe enough for some days.
    I will try to bring you some sientific background about these the next days.
    recipes-yes i have some-but I have to ask my friend if it´s ok for him i tell you some of it.
    Anyway I wish all of you a happy new year ,luck ,health and happienes in the comming year
     
  9. bcapop

    bcapop Established Member

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    If you can comment on that line of my post, you can also comment on the other things said in my post. Or is that to hard for you?
     
  10. pippo24

    pippo24 Member

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  11. Jacobo

    Jacobo Established Member

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    You called me liar twice. Why do you want my comments, then?
     
  12. bcapop

    bcapop Established Member

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    Boo hoo :jackit:. Then don't comment at all.
     
  13. Jacobo

    Jacobo Established Member

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    bcapop, I am serious about that. You called me liar. You should apologize.
     
  14. bcapop

    bcapop Established Member

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    But you are lying or you just don't know (as I said before..)
     
  15. viperfish

    viperfish Senior Member

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    No, I understand what you are saying. However, there is no proof that proxiphen works any better than plain old minoxidil. You have to admit that. So why spend the money?
     
  16. JWM

    JWM Senior Member

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    Where are you guys buying Bayberry?
     
  17. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    Sorry if I sound like I'm pressing you on this, but you've got me curious and you seem to be rather vague about it.

    How do you KNOW you're having "stability problems"? What are you actually SEEING??

    Yes, but an important consideration that many of us have is that animal experiments strongly suggest that topical flutamide works purely by a systemic route of absorption. If that's correct for humans, too, then what's even the point of applying it topically? Why not just take that 20 mg of flutamide ORALLY every day, and save yourself a lot of trouble from having to use a topical application? :)
     
  18. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
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    Waseda was kind enough to mail me a copy of that hamster flank-organ test with topical bayberry a few years ago, so it's use as a 5a-reductase inhibitor (or maybe even an antiandrogen) seems legitimate. But I'm not aware of it ever being tested in vivo on human scalps! Can you cite that study for me?

    I suppose it's mainly because I don't know of a reliable and cheap way to get it.
     
  19. Cassin

    Cassin Senior Member

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    No I have not. Too expensive and not enough promise.

    I do use item 500 though.
     
  20. DoctorHouse

    DoctorHouse Senior Member

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    Cassin do you use the foam too?
     

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