Numerous vitamin supplements?

ukmale24

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s.a.f said:
Yeah in terms of genetic m.p.b. Are you telling me you think NW7's like Larry David could still have hair if only they'd got on some supplement regime?

*Googles him* Bit late for him I think. I just think it's unwise to completely dispel science and evidence behind Tb-4 and Copper Peptide. Tb-4 especially.
 

Thom

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I must say that when I started my regimen a few months ago I thought s.a.f was just bitter and cynical about supplements. I spent about $40 a month on supplements until around April and just never got around to buying more and haven't bought any more since then. Hasn't changed a thing.

So I am posting to say that I agree with him that supplements won't affect your hair in one way or another. They did seem to make my hair grow faster but that is it. I may be new to the big 3 but trust Cassin and s.a.f, they've been doing this for awhile as far as I can tell.

More importantly, save your money.
 

slurms mackenzie

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Thom said:
I must say that when I started my regimen a few months ago I thought s.a.f was just bitter and cynical about supplements. I spent about $40 a month on supplements until around April and just never got around to buying more and haven't bought any more since then. Hasn't changed a thing.

So I am posting to say that I agree with him that supplements won't affect your hair in one way or another. They did seem to make my hair grow faster but that is it. I may be new to the big 3 but trust Cassin and s.a.f, they've been doing this for awhile as far as I can tell.

More importantly, save your money.

Out of interest what supps did you try? How long for?
 

The Natural

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That would be my question as well. To state that "supplements" are, in essence, a waste of money because you have tried, say, two, is obnoxious.

s.a.f. is ignorant (of natural treatments that not only improve the condition of the body in general, but the scalp/hair in particular).
 

freakout

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Thom said:
I must say that when I started my regimen a few months ago I thought s.a.f was just bitter and cynical about supplements. I spent about $40 a month on supplements until around April and just never got around to buying more and haven't bought any more since then. Hasn't changed a thing.

So I am posting to say that I agree with him that supplements won't affect your hair in one way or another. They did seem to make my hair grow faster but that is it. I may be new to the big 3 but trust Cassin and s.a.f, they've been doing this for awhile as far as I can tell.

More importantly, save your money.
Couldn't agree more. Supplements have not been proven to even work a tiny bit. Products that claim to do so are snake oils.
 

Nashville Hairline

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I'd love if supplements did actually work but while I'm seeing not a single human on the internet who can show pictures of maintenance or improvement of male pattern baldness over time with just supplements then I have to assume the "success" stories are the usual unverified testimonials.
 

Thom

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sir chugalot said:
Thom said:
I must say that when I started my regimen a few months ago I thought s.a.f was just bitter and cynical about supplements. I spent about $40 a month on supplements until around April and just never got around to buying more and haven't bought any more since then. Hasn't changed a thing.

So I am posting to say that I agree with him that supplements won't affect your hair in one way or another. They did seem to make my hair grow faster but that is it. I may be new to the big 3 but trust Cassin and s.a.f, they've been doing this for awhile as far as I can tell.

More importantly, save your money.

Out of interest what supps did you try? How long for?


I took Biotin, Zinc, fish oils, iron, and Saw Palmetto and I took them for almost half a year. Like I said, I think my hair grew a bit faster but you're better off saving your money.
 

s.a.f

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The Natural said:
That would be my question as well. To state that "supplements" are, in essence, a waste of money because you have tried, say, two, is obnoxious.

s.a.f. is ignorant (of natural treatments that not only improve the condition of the body in general, but the scalp/hair in particular).

Idiot, when it comes to hair you are a slave to the follicles sensitivity to DHT. All you need to do is take a look around at other men to realise that nutrition and m.p.b are not connected. Do you think Patrick Dempsey spends all day popping vitamin pills. Maybe he does? Maybe he'd be a NW7 without them? :jackit:
But keep taking the vitamins I'm sure your Horseshoe will be lovely and shiney looking.
I'm just trying to give people the real truth on here rather than false hope.
 

freakout

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s.a.f said:
[quote="The Natural":3epmzl96]... s.a.f. is ignorant (of natural treatments that not only improve the condition of the body in general, but the scalp/hair in particular).
Idiot, ..... :jackit: .... keep taking the vitamins I'm sure your Horseshoe will be lovely and shiney looking.[/quote:3epmzl96]
LOL.

Vitamin A supplements causes increased risked to lung cancer among smokers
Vitamin C supplements contribute to artereosclerosis among diabetics
Vitamin E supplements causes increased risks to heart failure.

the opposite of what they should do than when they come from food.
 

Bryan

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freakout said:
Supplements have not been proven to even work a tiny bit.

Supplements _have_ (apparently) been shown to work! Why hasn't there been even a SINGLE mention in this thread of that biotin study which I've posted several times over the years on various hairloss sites? :dunno:

It was originally published in a European medical journal, and involved the taking of a rather large daily oral dose of biotin: 2.5 mg/day. The test-subjects had mostly androgenetic alopecia, and they supposedly had a pretty good response to the biotin, after taking it every day for a few months.

I admit that I personally have trouble fully believing that study, at least until I see it duplicated by additional investigators. But I think you erred outrageously when you said that "supplements have not been proven to work even a tiny bit." Now you know otherwise! Don't exaggerate needlessly! :)
 

freakout

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Thanks mr bryan. I'd like to read this study. Is there a link to it?
 

Bryan

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freakout said:
Thanks mr bryan. I'd like to read this study. Is there a link to it?

I'll find the post of the abstract again. Give me a few minutes...
 

Bryan

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Authors: Floersheim GL.
Institution: Dermatologie FMH, Rennweg 15,CH-4052 Basel; Switzerland.
Title: "An examination of the effect of biotin on alopecia and hair quality"
Source: Zeitschrift fur Hautkrankheiten. Vol 67(3) (pp 246-252+255), 1992.

The effect of a daily oral dose of 2,5 mg biotin was studied in 93 patients with the symptoms hair-loss (mostly androgenetic alopecia) and reduced hair quality. The mean duration of treatment was 7,9 +/- 2,8 months. An obvious improvement of hair-loss was reported in 64%, and a slight improvement in 9%. Hair quality was clearly improved in 70% and slightly in 12%. Brittle finger nails as an additional complaint were improved in 80%. If alopecia, decreased hair quality and brittle finger nails occurred in combination, improvement was observed frequently collectively. The study allows - as already shown in a previous investigation concerning brittle finger nails - to suggest biotin as an effective and well tolerated therapy in cases of alopecia and decreased hair quality.
 

freakout

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Bryan, the study you posted sucks. This panel of reviewers from EPSA do not speak well of biotin. Where did you get the study anyway?? It looks "androgenetic" was inserted into the text.

The question I had was: if biotin was that effective, why hasnt it grabbed the market over a span of 22 years? Looks like I'm back to what I said previewly - NO supplements have been proven to address male pattern baldness!!

It even appears Floersheim GL lied.

European Food Safety Authority (EFSA)

A total of 23 references were cited to substantiate the claimed effect of which 13 were textbooks or opinions of scientific bodies in which the claimed effect was not stated and five were references related to other health effects. The Panel considers that no conclusions could be drawn from these references for the scientific substantiation of the claimed effect.

Five references described human studies which examined the effect of biotin supplementation on brittle fingernails.

Three uncontrolled, non-blinded studies were provided in which (a) women with nail hardness disorders were given 2.5 mg biotin daily for six to 10 months and nail quality was assessed by subject interview (Floersheim, 1989), (b) adolescents and adults with alopecia and nail quality disorders were given 2.5 mg biotin daily for six to 15 months and nail quality was assessed by subjective reporting (Floersheim, 1992), and (c) adults diagnosed with nail splitting or brittle nails were given 1 to 3 mg biotin daily for 1.5 to 7 months and nail quality was assessed using a questionnaire sent to patients and telephone survey (Hochman et al., 1993). The Panel notes that these studies were not blinded, did not control for factors other than biotin that might have influenced the outcome, that no objective methods were used to determine changes in nail quality, and the doses studied were considerably higher than the ones proposed in the conditions of use, all of which limit the value of the studies as a source of data. As a follow-up to the Floersheim study (1989), nail thickness was assessed using scanning electron microscopy in women with brittle nails of unknown aetiology (excluding women with a specific diagnosis of a nail dystrophy) given 2.5 mg biotin daily for six to 15 months (Colombo et al., 1990). The Panel notes that the study was not blinded, did not control for factors other than biotin that might have influenced the outcome, and that the dose studied was considerably higher than the ones proposed in the conditions of use, all of which limit the value of the study as a source of data.

A double-blind placebo controlled intervention (Gehring, 1996) included 60 subjects with reduced nail quality randomly assigned to consume either placebo (n=30) or 2.5 mg of biotin (n=30) daily for six months. Inclusion criteria were adults above 18 years of age with brittle, splintered or soft nails of unknown origin. Exclusion criteria were known nail disorders, such as mycosis, psoriasis and Lichen ruber, pregnancy, severe neurological, mental or internal disorders, biotin deficiency, concurrent medication and participation in other studies less then four weeks prior to the start of the intervention. Three subjects in each group were excluded from statistical analysis for different reasons. The swelling behaviour of nail keratin after incubation with sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and transonychial water loss were measured after three and six months. The Panel considers that the evidence provided does not establish that these assays are appropriate measures of nail quality. In addition, clinical judgement by the investigator and the subject was used. The Panel notes that no information was provided on the nature of the clinical examination carried out by the investigator or on the aspects of nail quality considered by the subjects, and that the dose studied was considerably higher than the doses proposed in the conditions of use, all of which limit the value of the study as a source of data.

In weighing the evidence, the Panel took into account that all but one of the studies were not blinded and did not control for factors other than biotin that might have influenced the outcome, that in three of the five studies no objective methods to determine changes in nail quality were used, that the evidence provided in the remaining study did not establish that the endpoints used in this study are appropriate measures of nail quality and that in all studies the doses studied were considerably higher than the ones proposed in the conditions of use.

The Panel concludes that a cause and effect relationship has not been established between the dietary intake of biotin and maintenance of normal nails.
 

The Natural

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s.a.f said:
Idiot, when it comes to hair you are a slave to the follicles sensitivity to DHT. All you need to do is take a look around at other men to realise that nutrition and m.p.b are not connected. Do you think Patrick Dempsey spends all day popping vitamin pills. Maybe he does? Maybe he'd be a NW7 without them? But keep taking the vitamins I'm sure your Horseshoe will be lovely and shiney looking. I'm just trying to give people the real truth on here rather than false hope.

Again, the "truth" is that you, s.a.f., are ignorant. Period. So I shall take the liberty of educating your simple ***: Natural treatments include not only vitamins, but also minerals and herbs. And they have been used both internally and topically to successfully reduce/stop hair loss and regrow hair.

What on earth, pray tell, does Patrick Dempsey have to do with this discussion, unless he is a spokenman for Propecia or Rogaine. I do remember, though, NBA Hall of Famer Karl Malone, The Mailman, promoting Minoxidil for a while...and now, he is just ball-headed (I mean, bald-headed).

Mind your manners, Huckleberry.


resveratrol, curcumin, and hair loss:
1. http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo= ... SPLAY=DESC

And the results: "...while the group treated with resveratrol and curcumin showed with great surprise a reduction, sometimes also relevant, in variable time periods. Moreover, during this testing, the patients treated with resveratrol and curcumin surprisingly showed positive improvements in the treatment of psoriasis and the attenuation and even a stop of the hair loss, a reduction of the hair graying and the rebirth of hair in bald areas sometimes even of the original color too."

tocotrienols and hair loss:
2. http://www.regrowshair.com/non-surgical- ... hair-loss/

vitamin C and hair:
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19416266
 

The Natural

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freakout said:
Couldn't agree more. Supplements have not been proven to even work a tiny bit. Products that claim to do so are snake oils.

A fraud, you mean, like the book that you try to peddle on unsuspecting newbies.

You "broke the mystery of Male Pattern Baldness." Yea, sure you did, Buckwheat. With what? Rogaine? Please ask their former spokesman, Karl Malone, exactly what it did for him.

Look, take that book of yours, douse it with some of that Rogaine, light a match, and make a nice little Girl Scout campfire, for you and your BFF, s.a.f.
 

The Natural

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Nashville Hairline said:
I'd love if supplements did actually work but while I'm seeing not a single human on the internet who can show pictures of maintenance or improvement of male pattern baldness over time with just supplements then I have to assume the "success" stories are the usual unverified testimonials.

Given your extended history at some of these hair loss forums, I was surprised to see your regimen of saw palmetto, cod liver oil, zinc, and B vitamins.

From what I have read and experienced, an internal regimen like this won't do much, if anything, for your hair loss. Further, if your EFAs are unbalanced, they could accelerate your hair loss.

DHT inhibitors like Saw Palmetto are not an effective long term treatment for hair loss. Neither are zinc and B vitamins. Any success that you experience with these herbs and vitamins will be brief, never to return, once your body has adjusted to them.
 

The Natural

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Thom said:
I took Biotin, Zinc, fish oils, iron, and Saw Palmetto and I took them for almost half a year. Like I said, I think my hair grew a bit faster but you're better off saving your money.

The same could be stated for your regimen, Thom. Unfortunately, it may very well look good on paper, and may even sound good to you, but in reality, these type of supplements won't do much of anything for your hair loss. This, I know from experience.
 

ukmale24

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The Natural, would you say MSM, curcumin, Reservatrol, Soy Isoflavones and Taurine sounds like a good natural regimen?
 
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