MILK does a body good! what about your hair?

Dave001

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Old Baldy said:
Oh, I forgot to mention, I do take whey powder regularly. (I need the protein because I don't eat much meat. I'm a carb. addict!! :oops: )

Milk contains a more diverse source of proteins, which includes a relatively high proportion of caseins. It is digested at a slower rate, and consequently has less effect on insulin levels.
 

Bryan

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bubka said:
Old Baldy said:
He'll gulp down a mouthful of olive oil with me but won't consume the milk fat. I don't get it! :? (He just says olive oil (fat) is way better for you than milk fat.)
you dad is right, fat in milk is saturated (bad fat), while olive oil is mostly mono unsaturated, a healthy good fat

For those of you who are convinced that the butterfat in milk is bad just because it's saturated, here's a passage from the great book Nutrition Against Disease by the famous biochemist Roger Williams (he's the scientist who discovered pantothenic acid, gave folic acid its name, and did lots of other original work on the B vitamins in his long career).

This is from the extensive notes in the back of his book to the chapter on heart disease. Also, please keep in mind that this isn't ALL the evidence he presents on the benefical effects of butterfat; if I were to type-out all that stuff, I'd be here typing all afternoon! :) All the italics in this passage are Williams' own. It's kinda long, but I hope all of you take the time to read it carefully:

Milkfat and processed milk

That cardiovascular lesions are not induced by the fat of whole milk, but may be caused by the lack of accompanying nutrients in processed milk products gains support from a number of controlled rat experiments. S. Dreizen and his coworkers (J. Nutr., 74:75, 1961) have shown that rats restricted to a diet of nonfat dry cow's milk induced atherosclerosis of the aorta and its major branches, together with a syndrome of accompanying afflictions in 50 percent of the animals.

Other investigators have demonstrated that rats reared on an exclusive whole milk diet supplemented with iron, iodine, manganese, and copper do not develop cardiovascular lesions (Kemmerer, A. R. et al. Am. J. Physiol., 102:319, 1932; McCay, C. M., et al. J. Gerontol., 7:61, 1952). This, incidentally, would would be in agreement with those epidemiological studies of the African herdsmen tribes -- the Masai, Somalis, and Samburus -- who live almost exclusively on a milk-meat diet.

In one other experiment, Dreizen and his colleagues conducted a series of studies with ten groups of rats on different kinds of milk diets (J. Atheroscler. Res., 6:537, 1966). The results of these tests disclosed that rats reared on a diet of dry whole cow's milk (without supplements) developed overt atherosclerosis in 30 percent of the animals, while 40 percent succumbed to vascular lesions on a diet of nonfat dry milk. However, the investigators found that complete protection was afforded virtually all the animals against cardiovascular complications on diets of (1) reliquified whole milk; (2) dry whole milk supplemented with iron, copper, manganese, and iodine; (3) reliquified whole milk plus the trace elements; and (4) reliquified nonfat dry milk plus 3.6 percent sweet cream and the trace elements. These investigators assert that "a diet of nonfat dry milk, 3.5 percent butter, and the trace minerals gave almost complete protection, slight arteriosclerotic damage being found on histologic examination in only one of the thirty animals." They noted that neither the inception or prevention of atherosclerosis was related to cholesterol levels, nor, for that matter, to calcium or phosphorous levels.

These data suggest that adequate whole milk, including the butterfat, and essential trace minerals actually protect against cardiovascular damage. This, we have noted, concurs with other findings (Lowenstein, 1964; Mann, 1964; Shaper, Am. Heart J., 63:437, 1962) of the African tribes who live on a diet of raw whole cow's and goat's milk, a 60 to 65 percent butterfat diet, yet are virtually free of coronary heart disease. According to Dreizen and his colleagues, not only was the saturated butterfat of whole milk not to blame, but its inclusion in the diet was vital to the health of the cardiovascular system. It was the lack of adequate nutrients in a diet totally free of fat that caused medical atherosclerosis and renal damage. Butterfat, itself, appears to protect against atherosclerosis! More material on this subject will be presented later.
 

s.a.f

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You'll find plenty of studies that show milk to be good and just as many that say its bad. At the end of the day plenty of baldies drink milk and so do plenty of people with great hair. Make of that what you will.
 

CCS

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is there a reason they did not test non-fat milk with those vitamins? Does anyone besides me see that as a glaring omission?


All we know is that rats who lived on just liquid whole milk, in an unspecified sample size, did not get the dissease. Only one of the test's size was listed: 30.
 

Old Baldy

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Dave001 said:
Old Baldy said:
Oh, I forgot to mention, I do take whey powder regularly. (I need the protein because I don't eat much meat. I'm a carb. addict!! :oops: )

Milk contains a more diverse source of proteins, which includes a relatively high proportion of caseins. It is digested at a slower rate, and consequently has less effect on insulin levels.

I know Dave. I just do not like milk. Whey is ok but not as "wholesome". I know that. I'm kind of jealous now of guys who like milk. Oh well, maybe I'll force a couple mouthfuls down my throat now and then when the wife has it in the house.

I'll have to close my eyes and pinch my nose though. :x
 

powersam

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doesnt need to be milk solely OldBaldy, you might like some yoghurts or cheeses. good amounts of calcium in those.
 

Felk

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Old Baldy said:
Dave001 said:
[quote="Old Baldy":3f24e]Oh, I forgot to mention, I do take whey powder regularly. (I need the protein because I don't eat much meat. I'm a carb. addict!! :oops: )

Milk contains a more diverse source of proteins, which includes a relatively high proportion of caseins. It is digested at a slower rate, and consequently has less effect on insulin levels.

I know Dave. I just do not like milk. Whey is ok but not as "wholesome". I know that. I'm kind of jealous now of guys who like milk. Oh well, maybe I'll force a couple mouthfuls down my throat now and then when the wife has it in the house.

I'll have to close my eyes and pinch my nose though. :x[/quote:3f24e]

Dave and Old Baldy - when you say milk has less effect on insulin levels, does that mean in comparison to whey protein powder? What effect does whey protein have on insulin levels? I always thought decent amounts of protein were good for people with insulin resistance.

Strangely enough, i remember reading a study showing a high correlation between milk drinkers and insulin resistance. Someone posted it here once as a reason for hair loss sufferers to avoid milk.

Anyway it would be good to get it cleared up.
 

glassworld

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I want to preemptively apologize for the skin question--- I'm on this board because of my hair, but the skin is something which is ultimately more easily observable... and it's related to hair anyway.

Bryan, I have a question for you since you seem to be into nutrition and into milk.

People can laugh or disbelieve if they want, but I swear that full-fat cheese improves my complexion. Why might this be?

I was a person who bought into "Saturated fat derived from milk is bad for you" (most nutrition authorities) and "dairy causes acne" (vegan propaganda based on the loose correlation between skim milk and acne). Therefore I was gullible enough to "give up" dairy fat for a substantial amount of time... and therefore was able to see the difference in my skin tone-- a difference that most applicable people probably don't see because milk fat is so entrenched in the western diet.

I agree with you that no one food is essential to health, but I would like to discover why cheese seems to be so beneficial to my skin tone? (man this sounds so corny, but please believe me when I say this isn't a half-baked question). I've read that raw dairy is sometimes recommended to patients with acne- though I always kind of laughed at the notion... but I'm not so quick to laugh anymore. I'd really like to figure out why cheese seems to leave my skin with a healthier tone, so I can stop this wishy-washy "voodoo" talk about the "power of cheese" and start talking in terms of why certain components of full-fat milk products seem to be beneficial to skin health. I guess I'll go check out some of those Weston A Price foundation articles... but I was wondering what are your thoughts on this since you seem to be so passionate about milk?
 

powersam

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you've thoroughly confused me now Felk. I've often read that calcium has a beneficial effect on insulin sensitivity, and stupidly from that concluded that milk and dairy in general would be good for treating insulin resistance. having had a look around though there seems to be quite a lot of information saying dairy is definately not good for insulin resistance.

what "greens and beans" have calcium in them pray tell?
 

bubka

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OK, Byran, then in your world, "natural" is getting diarrhea, just because they "will" drink it

same crap another day with you, i cannot believe your rational... but yet you offer nothing new...
 

CCS

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So if I eat a little bit of butter, will that help prevent blood vessel disseases?
 

Bryan

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collegechemistrystudent said:
is there a reason they did not test non-fat milk with those vitamins?

How do you know they didn't? Maybe they did...

Bryan
 

Bryan

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glassworld said:
Bryan, I have a question for you since you seem to be into nutrition and into milk.

People can laugh or disbelieve if they want, but I swear that full-fat cheese improves my complexion. Why might this be? ... but I was wondering what are your thoughts on this since you seem to be so passionate about milk?

I've no idea on that. Sorry...

Bryan
 

CCS

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Bryan said:
collegechemistrystudent said:
is there a reason they did not test non-fat milk with those vitamins?

How do you know they didn't? Maybe they did...

Bryan

If it did or did not prevent blood vessels diseases, I think that would be a very important result, since it would show whether the vitamins can work as well as the cream. Just odd they would not mention it.
 

Old Baldy

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powersam said:
if not from milk and other dairy products, how do we get enough calcium in our diet?

i'd also like to know where calcium would have been obtained by hunter gatherers etc way back in the way back?

Yes. Good point. I just don't know much about dairy products because I don't like them very much. Forgot about cheese! :oops:

College, your eating sticks of butter comment had me laughing for a while. It ain't like you to be such a smart aleck! :p
 

Bryan

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Old Baldy said:
College, your eating sticks of butter comment had me laughing for a while. It ain't like you to be such a smart aleck! :p

I never assumed that it was a smart aleck comment.
 

powersam

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so does anyone know where prehistoric man got his calcium from? or maybe he just didnt, natures way isn't always the best way.
 

Old Baldy

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Bryan

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Old Baldy said:
:shock: :shock: :shock:

http://www.acupuncture.co.za/articles/m ... butter.htm

Now I do like butter but never knew this!! Where did all this misinformation come from relative to butter and milk? Ridiculous!

From the medical and nutritional establishments, that's where it came from! For years (DECADES, actually) they've been feeding the public a very simplistic, kindergarten-level message: heart disease is caused by eating saturated fat and cholesterol. But it's FAR more complicated than just that. Slowly but surely, people are getting the word about the importance of trace minerals, antioxidant nutrients, trans-fats, and other subtle dietary issues which are PROFOUNDLY relevant to the scourge of heart disease.

Bryan
 
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