Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[sunchyme1]

Rabble rabble rabble

 

[INT]

I hope you all understand that binding DHT and preventing it from activating the receptors is just as bad as preventing 5-AR from making it in the first place.

We really need to hope that S Equol does not go systemic in very large amounts and that it can somehow stay localized to the scalp, otherwise you will be seeing a lot of the same side effects as on finasteride.

I do not agree. It is not necessarily the decrease in DHT that causes the finasteride side-effects (a lot of PFS sufferers have normal DHT levels again). The problem seems to be that 5AR has more functions in the body than just converting T into DHT. It is also plays a role in healthy neurosteroid regulation. Therefore, I expect that something that does not affects 5AR but only binds to DHT will cause less side effects.

 

[whatevr]

I do not agree. It is not necessarily the decrease in DHT that causes the finasteride side-effects (a lot of PFS sufferers have normal DHT levels again). The problem seems to be that 5AR has more functions in the body than just converting T into DHT. It is also plays a role in healthy neurosteroid regulation. Therefore, I expect that something that does not affects 5AR but only binds to DHT will cause less side effects.

Inactivating DHT can still cause: low libido, weight gain, anxiety, loss of muscle mass, etc (just look at the side effects of ANY androgen receptor inhibitor for example).

Additionally, S Equol stimulates estrogen receptors just like estrogen itself (and this can mimic the estrogen increase by propecia). The only thing it would not do is mess with neurosteroids. But you still don't want it to go systemic.

 

[Ollie]

@beps63 Does S-Equol in the lotion go system and if not, why ?

 

[whatevr]

@beps63 Does S-Equol in the lotion go system and if not, why ?

We do not know that yet. It depends how well the liposomal carrier is designed.

 

[INT]

Inactivating DHT can still cause: low libido, weight gain, anxiety, loss of muscle mass, etc.

True.

Still chances, and severity of side effects are probably lower than would be the case in than something that reduces DHT AND depletes important neurosteroids.

The only thing it would not do is mess with neurosteroids.

Which in my opinion will make the biggest difference when it comes to side effects.

 

[champpy]

NEVERENDING SPECULATION AND HYPOTHESIS!

 

[Ollie]

We do not know that yet. It depends how well the liposomal carrier is designed.

A short while ago Beps63 said that liposomal delivery was purely for the penetration of the lotions ingredients. The fact that its been trialed and approved for children as well (such as that little girl) perhaps it should be assumed it doesn't go systemic.

 

[whatevr]

A short while ago Beps63 said that liposomal delivery was purely for the penetration of the lotions ingredients. The fact that its been trialed and approved for children as well (such as that little girl) perhaps it should be assumed it doesn't go systemic.

I hope you are right.

 

[Arrade]

Inactivating DHT can still cause: low libido, weight gain, anxiety, loss of muscle mass, etc (just look at the side effects of ANY androgen receptor inhibitor for example).

Additionally, S Equol stimulates estrogen receptors just like estrogen itself (and this can mimic the estrogen increase by propecia). The only thing it would not do is mess with neurosteroids. But you still don't want it to go systemic.

Estrogen is a neurosteroid

 

[Arrade]

A short while ago Beps63 said that liposomal delivery was purely for the penetration of the lotions ingredients. The fact that its been trialed and approved for children as well (such as that little girl) perhaps it should be assumed it doesn't go systemic.

True, but as far as we know the kids weren’t using the S-Equol added solution... so I have seen

 

[Arrade]

I still think what’s positive about s-Equol is just that it’s really weak in the body.
If you’re talking about removing DHT you still need that hormone.
We will see with more evidence, and perhaps I will continue to look into soy isoflavones (the biosynthesized estrogens)

 

[Ollie]

True, but as far as we know the kids weren’t using the S-Equol added solution... so I have seen

Yeah thats true. However, the liposomal delivery system does mean that very very small quantities of S-Equol are used. I'm fairly sure there is actually a formula that takes into account half life and daily dose intake that demonstrates the most build up possible in the human body of a drug. Assuming that S-Equol has a linear dose/effect relationship then i imagine the very small amount of build up means absolutely nothing - unlike finasteride where you just need to lick a pill and you wake up with a vagina.

 

[RU serious]

 

[Arrade]

I do not agree. It is not necessarily the decrease in DHT that causes the finasteride side-effects (a lot of PFS sufferers have normal DHT levels again). The problem seems to be that 5AR has more functions in the body than just converting T into DHT. It is also plays a role in healthy neurosteroid regulation. Therefore, I expect that something that does not affects 5AR but only binds to DHT will cause less side effects.

DHT is a neurosteriod. I haven’t looked into 5AR, but I suppose I should.
If S-Equol keeps DHT from hitting the brain or exacerbating estrogen effects in the brain it could be like finasteride.
But to my understanding this lotion won’t have that problem

 

[IdealForehead]

That's not how I understand it.

The liposomal delivery is what allows the s-equol to enter the skin. Without it, it could conceivably just stay on top of the skin, and have no impact. Now it's reaching the hair follicles or part of it, and thus helping by blocking DHT and preventing it from binding to DHT.

We don't know, at this time, if the s-equol will reach either of the blood or the cerebrospinal fluid, or if that even matters. We also don't know if these guys have done a remotely good job of figuring out the right dose. @IdealForehead and @That Guy might know as they have superior knowledge of some of these issues.

The reason that s-equol should not have the same systemic side effects as finasteride is that it's not the same molecule. finasteride blocks five-alpha reductase everywhere in the body, which prevents the formation of DHT and many other molecules, thereby increasing levels of testosterone, estrogen, etc. S-equol doesn't do that -- it binds to DHT. As far as we know, it doesn't affect the several dozen other hormones that finasteride affects.

Thanks for tagging me on this. I have nothing to add but I was not aware s equol is such an effective direct DHT inhibitor.

This could be very helpful.

This makes a very compelling argument for it:

https://academic.oup.com/biolreprod/article/70/4/1188/2713057

I'm trying to source some from Alibaba to add to my usual topical.

 

[bridges]

Been following this thread for a cpl wks now, pretty convinced that brotion will be at the very minimum - a better alternative to big 3. The question I'm trying to gain more insight into prior to the 14th is when it will be commercially available. I've seen two credible guesses:

1.) Apparently Brotzu himself said it would be available "this summer or before" (does anyone have a link to this quote?)
or
2.) I've seen several posts claiming someone with connections to Fidia has inside info that the lotion will be available this October

I would think a direct quote quote from Prof. Brotzu would be more credible than someone just claiming to have inside info from Fidia on the Italian forums, but I don't know. If anyone has any further details, would be great to share. Fingers crossed this new treatment comes out this summer or before. May/June timeframe would be amazing.

 

[Dangman]

Been following this thread for a cpl wks now, pretty convinced that brotion will be at the very minimum - a better alternative to big 3. The question I'm trying to gain more insight into prior to the 14th is when it will be commercially available. I've seen two credible guesses:

1.) Apparently Brotzu himself said it would be available "this summer or before" (does anyone have a link to this quote?)
or
2.) I've seen several posts claiming someone with connections to Fidia has inside info that the lotion will be available this October

I would think a direct quote quote from Prof. Brotzu would be more credible than someone just claiming to have inside info from Fidia on the Italian forums, but I don't know. If anyone has any further details, would be great to share. Fingers crossed this new treatment comes out this summer or before. May/June timeframe would be amazing.

The quote was from Brotzus son. It was taken from a conversation that he had from a member who posted it here. In the conversation he also said how Brotzu will be at a conference, which got confirmed few days later

 

[Pelopeleon]

Been following this thread for a cpl wks now, pretty convinced that brotion will be at the very minimum - a better alternative to big 3. The question I'm trying to gain more insight into prior to the 14th is when it will be commercially available. I've seen two credible guesses:

1.) Apparently Brotzu himself said it would be available "this summer or before" (does anyone have a link to this quote?)
or
2.) I've seen several posts claiming someone with connections to Fidia has inside info that the lotion will be available this October

I would think a direct quote quote from Prof. Brotzu would be more credible than someone just claiming to have inside info from Fidia on the Italian forums, but I don't know. If anyone has any further details, would be great to share. Fingers crossed this new treatment comes out this summer or before. May/June timeframe would be amazing.

Hopefully God hears you.

 

[Ollie]

Hopefully God hears you.

God is also waiting for the 14th. He's bald.