Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016
- Thread starter paleocapa89
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Hey there, I posted some stuff on equol a long time ago (i.e. ~pg400 of this thread lol). It might be useful to you.
You know, we could be making our own topicals instead of memes and trying it out...
We know r-equol and s-equol work just as well for binding DHT. We know that equolibrium may be a way to get our hands on the stuff, if research labs are not even considered (p.s., if they are considered, then lc labs, cayman chem, alfa-aesar all show up on fisher scientific - these are legitimate labs, i.e. not Chinese...no offense to Chinese).
We know Brotzu's example lotions use a 0.1% s-equol concentration, albeit higher concentrations are suggested also. The claim is that the 0.1% lotions he made did indeed have an effect.
We know that "the" equol patent had a human pilot study listed in an older version:
[Example 20
Human Pilot Study
In Men and Women, Serum 5α-DHT Levels Before and after Treatment with Non-Racemic Equol
[0245]In a pilot study involving 4 men (ages 50 to 59 years old) and 2 postmenopausal women (ages 60 to 62), baseline levels of serum 5α-dihydrotestosterone (5α-DHT) were determined by ELISA in triplicate. After 7 days of oral dosing with 3 mg of non-racemic equol per day, 5α-DHT levels were again determined.
TABLE-US-00013 TABLE 13 Baseline: 5α-DHT levels 5α-DHT levels on day 7 of before the 1st morning oral dosing (two to four dose on the 7th day of hours after the 1st morning MEN treatment dose) Subject A 692 + 10 pg/ml 600 + 13 pg/ml* Subject B 724 + 18 pg/ml 612 + 18 pg/ml* Subject C 658 + 23 pg/ml 534 + 16 pg/ml* Subject D 747 + 27 pg/ml 596 + 28 pg/ml* *= significant decrease compared to baseline values
TABLE-US-00014 TABLE 14 Baseline: 5α-DHT levels 5α-DHT levels on day 7 of before the 1st morning dose oral dosing (two to four hours WOMEN on the 7th day of treatment after the 1st morning dose) Subject E 221 + 5 pg/ml 170 + 6 pg/ml* Subject F 265 + 14 pg/ml 193 + 20 pg/ml* *= significant decrease compared to baseline values
[0246]This studies demonstrated that oral consumption of equol significantly decreased serum 5α-DHT levels in men (by approximately 17%) and in women (by approximately 26%) that provided androgen hormone modulation in dermal applications for preventing and treating skin disorders and chronological and intrinsic aging.
Read more: http://www.patentsencyclopedia.com/app/20100076071#ixzz4fZkdRuGt ]
"Long-Term Effects of Dihydrotestosterone Treatment on Prostate Growth in Healthy, Middle-Aged Men Without Prostate Disease
A Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Trial"
Amanda Idan, BSc, MHSc; Kaye A. Griffiths, AMS, DMU; D. Tim Harwood, PhD; Markus J. Seibel, MD, PhD; Leo Turner, MMed, RN;
Ann J. Conway, MBBS; and David J. Handelsman, MBBS, PhD
That paper there gave old men 70 mg DHT/day. The results were that the DHT-treated group had a 10-fold increase in serum DHT levels, well above the normal range of circulating DHT. Please see the attached picture for results. After a year of treatment, it was found that the average increase in serum DHT levels was 20 nmol/L.
What is the normal range? https://www.endocrinesciences.com/sites/endocrinesciences/files/imce/uploads/L5167.pdf
30-85 ng/dL (the linked pdf is kind enough to give the conversion factor for nmol/dL, because when I did the conversion by hand, I thought I fucked up lol). The normal range is then 0.69 nmol/L-3.1 nmol/L.
Bottom line: ~70 mg DHT/day gives an increase of ~5-10x physiological levels of DHT.
Rough back-of-the-envelope calculations:
One might expect that to just double normal DHT levels, one would only dose on the order of ~7 mg DHT/day. (Just an order of magnitude less).
Assuming equol binds to DHT 1:1 to render it inactive, we would need on the order of ~7 mg/day to get high DHT suppression (equol and DHT have pretty similar molar masses). Looking at that old pilot study in that patent, we see that 3 mg/day supposedly resulted in ~20% decrease in unbound serum DHT. I think this means we are in the correct order of magnitude.
Now for the last bit of hand-waving that I will just pull out of my ***: an equol topical is supposed to only lower DHT on the scalp and leave DHT elsewhere alone. For simplicity, I assumed that 10% of the body's total DHT resides in the scalp. So the dose might be something like 0.7 mg/day.
So an equol topical would have a concentration of 0.07-0.7%, let's just call it 0.01-0.1%. (1-10 mg/ml, assuming 1 ml applied daily).
Inb4 my analysis is retarded. It's just an order of magnitude check for sanity bro, chill. I'm not claiming anything is exact.
Moral of the story -
1) ~1-10 mg/ml solutions can have an effect.
2) R,S Equol, 99% is available at 100-200 mg/$100 through research labs and you get, what, 30 pills at 6 mg/pill supposedly with that Equolibrium supplement (but you have to extract the equol out, ew).
3) That patent I linked has several examples where they just use DMSO as a vehicle. It's gonna absorb into your skin if you resort to DMSO, lol. Some here might be waiting on liposomes because they don't want to fart around with an ethanol vehicle and absorption, etc. Just sayin'
4) Half life of s-equol is 7-8 hours. Unless metabolizing equol is like...sensitive to chirality, probably r-equol has a similar half life. This is a pretty solid half life for daily application. If you want to get off, you should just be able to.
"Equol: Pharmacokinetics and Biological Actions"
Kenneth D. R. Setchell3* and Carlo Clerici
5) Here's the shitty thing. The mechanism of action is similar to that of finasteride - stopping DHT's actions on the follicles. So....the timeline for improvement will be similar. This means you can't necessarily assess progress until 9 months or so. Brotzu's patent also says the treatment must be continued for many months for a significant effect. But he talks about hair fall stopping, etc. Wouldn't be out of the question if instead the reverse happened and you started shedding lol.
5.1) I'm just a scared doge on the internet... I haven't jumped on any of this other than fleshing out a plan. I figured I'd share it...
Love you guys, hang in there
But for those willing to stray from the off beaten path... the starting point awaits...
Finally, I leave you with this:
https://google2.fda.gov/search?q=equol&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&lr=&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&requiredfields=-archive:Yes&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields=*
The first four items on that list provide arguments and counter arguments to the FDA for the use for soy isoflavones and thus equol. Equol is specifically referenced in some of the documents. Bear in mind that soy isoflavones are part of the GRAS (generally recognized as safe) substances list. If you read the document arguing why, you see the mention of alleviating hot flashes and improving prostate health. These things are likely due to the production of equol, not the isoflavones themselves.
And the petition against soy isoflavones is by the Weston Price Foundation...I'll just leave it at that...
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=equol&Search=Search
I also invite you to peruse through the few phase II trial studies that exist to evaluate the safety of s-equol. Bear in mind that doses up to 150-300 mg were used orally.
And finally, for those so inclined, here is a quick reference compounding guide.
http://pharmasy.weebly.com/uploads/...ompounding_and_dispensing__second_edition.pdf
MrJolly16
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lol i would join you mate
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The fact that this product is going to be marketed as a cosmetic product and not a drug makes me think it won't do much
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f*** botzu lotion
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still, we had a good laugh
March 2017
May 2017
July 2017
July 2017
I talked about the alternative Brotzu lotion a few months ago. The User Cavallopazzo uploaded a new picture. Pretty amazing results.
Even the administrator Marlin said that the results are impressive but of course he had a good amount of hair back in March 2017. Its funny because I had the exact same hair status in December 2015 and it became worse after 6 months.... So I really think he was able to stop it and even thicken his hair!
I have to add that some of them had to stop because of side effects... Someone talked about the consistence of the lotion . it was pretty hard to wash their har and so on... They hope that the original does not have side effects but come on. The results are actually very good. The user Dante also said that he thinks that the pictures are NOT fake and that others also reported improvements (Dante was also one of the guys who used the alternative lotion but he stopped because it was very difficult to wash it off and many more sides?!)
Nontheless its amazing to see how the alternative lotion seems to work... Now think about the results of the orginal fidia lotion!
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Are we sure is the same guy? If he is this is amazing
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Did they say what kind of side effects?
Yes definetely the same guy.
No they did not talk about the sides specifically. But the main problem was that many of them couldn't go on because the did not get the lotion after 3 months. Its not clear but only a few were able to continue until now. The next round is in September. At this moment they don't need more members to buy this lotion.
This actually shows that he is not doing that to attract members. Their group is already full and the guy on the picture said that he cant wait for the original lotion because it will be much cheaper than the lotion that these guys use at this moment.
It would not make sense if this guy is lying... Why should he? He does not want anything, he just informs the other members about his progress.
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What I'd like to know is how much his temple area and hairline has improved
Honestly these pictures don't tell much. He grew his hair out so that makes it impossible to judge if there was any actual improvement.
Would be nice if there are more guys in that group-buy documenting their progress, somebody with a little less hair at baseline.
Would be nice if there are more guys in that group-buy documenting their progress, somebody with a little less hair at baseline.
ya i know... I wonder when will be the day when we see very clear improvement... it's really not easy to judge.
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It definetly looks thicker