Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by OverMachoGrande, May 3, 2009.
I never denied the role of androgens in male pattern baldness seaback
hmm, post of the thread
Additionally, every time I hear about an estrogen study "in vitro" it makes me chuckle ^_^
Why is that? Do you also chuckle when you hear about "in vitro" androgen studies?
well, it's just because like, it's quite obvious that it's a completely different case when the estrogen is within a male body, and different again when it's within a female body.
It seems that men with higher levels of estrogen are more susceptible to male pattern baldness, but this could be merely a correlation, as those people are also those who tend to be older or might have things like metabolic syndrome, so will have lower T, be on a worse diet quite possibly, get less exercise etc etc.
I have heard all kinds of things such as it upregulating 5ar (or some other key part of the chain leading to male pattern baldness) and enlarging the prostate (which of course is connected to DHT production). I really think what happens in vitro in this case is significant, but probably part of a significantly wider picture, or at least should be approached as such.
Uhh....so why does that make you chuckle over in vitro studies? :dunno:
EXACTLY! It's men who are OLDER who have more estrogen, and are also more likely to go bald; that second part is because their scalp hair follicles are more sensitive to androgens. Don't fall into the same logical trap as the nitwit misterE, by assuming that estrogen causes male pattern baldness! In fact, estrogen is almost certainly protective of hair follicles against male pattern baldness.
Would you also make the ridiculous assumption that WRINKLES cause male pattern baldness? How about the loss of teeth? How about getting forgetful? All of those are also associated with advancing age, so do they all account for balding?
Estrogen doesn't upregulate 5a-reductase. In fact, it actually suppresses both testosterone and DHT, as I've tried to tell that nitwit misterE several times!
Hoppi, you shouldn't pay any attention to what he (misterE) said about any of this stuff. He didn't have a CLUE what the hell he was talking about! :shakehead:
Looks like very good read, thanks.
That first chapter you linked does however mention right at the beginning of their androgen section "Apart from the seasonal changes described in Sec. 2.4.2, the most obvious regulators of human hair growth are the androgens, as long as an individual has good nutrition and normal thyroid function."
"good nutrition" is quite specific to each individual as well as what sort of factors can influence thyroid functioning.
woah seriously well spotted Brains! See, there's a reason I think you are awesome lol
And I still can't believe you had a little dig at my idea of Reishi Mushroom when I was a noob lol - I've never forgotten that!! I love my Reishi ._. hehe!
But yah, off-topic!
Anyway, good call! Stuff like thyroid function and poor nutrition throws EVERYTHING out of balance - hormones, inflammation, free radical activity, the whole shebang! And that's if you DON'T have an allergy! lol
A "cleansing" diet that's correct for your ancestral type I believe should be part of an effective and comprehensive treatment for many conditions IMO, including quite probably male pattern baldness
We all see what we want to see. I for instance missed the part of the book where it mentions that androgens are responsible for the hair patterns of 99.99% of the population, but you apparently found where the author mentioned that exact number, unless of course you are simply inferring that number based upon your own beliefs...
Which is it, does the author say that androgens are responsible for 99.99% of hair patterns or does he say that "as long as an individual has good nutrition and normal thyroid function," that androgens are responsible?
I think it's also very important that people remember that I am not DENYING the role of androgens in hair loss. I know that DHT is the reason guys lose more hair than girls. What I am saying though is DHT seems to ACTIVATE more than it actually causes. If you have less inflammation and stuff to act upon your hair follicles, it seems almost like DHT passes by and does relatively little damage, as insane as that sounds. This explains why the ImmortalHair regimen (and people going off inflammatory diets, etc) seems to work, as the DHT appears to have nothing to activate. It also goes further towards explaining the effects of stress, thyroid issues and gluten sensitivities on male pattern baldness.
I'm finding new evidence all the time, but I think I believe that as CS said "I think of DHT as the messenger (no need to shoot it)"